Thanks very much to all who replied to my last thread, but I'm back for some more advice, if that's ok.
(reposting this as a new topic as the old one is about 7-8 screens back now)
Due to the prohibitive cost of a decently spec'd multimeter, I decided against testing the current drawn by the existing glowplugs and just got some new glowplugs in there (the haynes recommended champion ch158, rather than the halfords ones (which had only been in abt 20,000 miles, btw) - may be just as bad, certainly more expensive, but not quite £36 a plug!).
And yes, I replaced all 4 :)
Thanks to David Withers for recommending BERU glowplugs, but according to their website, they don't actually manufacture a plug for my engine (it's the isuzu one) - but please correct me if I'm wrong!
Anyway, things aren't really improving at all. Obviously, it's got warmer, so the engine has been considerably easier to start anyway, but the new glowplugs didn't cure it right in the middle of that chilly spell. It seems to be *really* tricky to start when it's dropped below 0°C, I don't know if that suggests anything in particular?
Any further ideas? Can anyone think of anything I've overlooked in this whole diagnosis? Failing that, can anyone suggest a decent diesel specialist who would actually like the work in the Merseyside area, as if I hear "that's a common problem" from my local VX dealer again, I'm likely to be up for common assault :)
Thanks once again to everyone for your helpful replies last time,
-David L
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No knowledge of Isuzu/Vauxhall engines, but had symptoms similar to glowplug failure in both a 205 and a BX caused by air getting in to the system. In the 205 a failed seal on the hand priming pump thingy, on the BX a leaking fuel line. May be worth checking for loose joints etc?.
Sorry if this was covered in the original thread.
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David,
You will be suprised at how much the cranking speed can influence the ease of starting on a modern diesel. Direct injection in addition, just makes matters worse. (Not sure if the Vectra specifically, is a directly injected car)
Cold weather, viscous oil and a tired starting motor and battery can disproportionately aggravate the problem.
Regards,
Julian
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David,
Since your Vauxhall has the Isuzu engine, I am not surprised that BERU do not make a glowplug for it. I'm sure the original NGK are fine, however.
Did you see my earlier posting that some Vauxhall diesel engines need the accelerator pedal pressed to the floor to start the engine at below 10 degrees C? The Isuzu engine requires this (apologies if you already knew!).
Finally, have you checked that the relay is supplying current to the glowplugs? These do fail and there are, I believe, three different types so it is useful to find out what type is fitted before going along to the dealer. I don't think they are very expensive.
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Another quick point - I think Haynes recommend Champion glowplugs and other items for commercial reasons (i.e. they are almost certainly paid to do so), not for any technical reason. Pity they let profit get in the way of impartiality.
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And there's more!
I've just read the January 4th posting by Richard P in which he says the 'floor the accelerator' cold-starting technique is for *non-turbo* engines only. However, from memory, I feel sure that this is the maker's recommended technique for the Isuzu 1.7 *turbo* engines. The owners handbook will provide the answer!
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I will check the manual tomorrow for my Astra 1.7d (Many Astra's had the Isuzu engine fitted), but I am convinced that it states that you do not press the pedal during starting with the turbocharged engine! In fact I will bet you a virtual pint on that!
Another thing, always press the clutch when starting any car as it will take some stress off the starter motor.
I seem to recall that there were some 'shims' that need adjusting every so often on the isuzu engine, which when not adjusted properly, will make the car harder to start....possibly valve shims? I think also that the Isuzu engine does not have an automatic cam belt tensioner assembly, unlike the 1.7dr (GM) engine..timing being even slightly out will impair starting performance significantly....I will look in my Haynes Vauxhall diesel manual tomorrow to see what it says about trouble starting the TD engine..
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Now I have a different problem....
Yesterday it was 41° C here, and my car didn't want to know (Petrol). As it was 41 in the general air, then I hate to think what it must have been under the [dark gray] bonnet since I had left the car parked in direct sunlight.
Last night when the temperature had dropped to around 32/33, it started fine.
You see, I have weather problems too !!
M.
p.s. I address the problem by returning to the pool and drinking vodka instead of the gin I had intended to go out and buy - my life is full of hardship and compromise.
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> "You see, I have weather problems too !!"
Look closely, you'll see my heart bleeding!
Stu.
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Yep, sort of "the car wouldn't start so I had to use the helicopter"!
David
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Don't worry Stu! You'll get your revenge come july, when you are sweltering in Britain at 22 degrees, and poor Mark is shivering his butt of at 28 degrees!
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Thanks to all for the suggestions, I really do appreciate everyone's time on this one. I thought I'd reply in one big post:
Simon, the air in the fuel had been suggested, thanks anyway, but I would expect this to be present whenever the car had been left for a time, not just when very cold. But please let me know if you think the cold could make the problem worse.
Julian - low cranking speed; a very good point, actually. The cranking speed has sounded a bit low (with my expert starter cranking ear :) ) for a while now, even when the battery is fully charged. I had put this down to my imagination, as during the rest of the year the car starts without complaint, but I reckon I should pay more attention to this now.
David Wi, as for the haynes/champion friendly advertising, I suspected as much, TTTT, but I've been quite happy with the other champion stuff (that said, I'd been happy with the other halfords stuff). As for the relay, I am getting a voltage present at the bus bar, and had the relay failed, I'd expect it to be completely dead, rather than providing a weak current. But I suppose the only way to test this theory is to bite the bullet and buy a decent multimeter and test it. Next weekend, I think I'll have a good look at that, and clean the bus bar up properly, and do a little more testing. As for the NGK plugs; I'm sure they would be ok, but at £36 a plug, I think they're going have to wait a while :)
David Wi/Richard - the pedal positions - in my owners manual, it tells you not to press the accelerator, but does of course recommend declutching, especially on cold mornings(!) which I do regardless of weather condition.
Richard - valve clearances, again, a very good point. Due to the lack of garages who seem to actually want to undertake this operation in my area, this hasn't been done during my ownership of the car... Looks like it's a (sharp intake of breath) vauxhall thing.
Mark - 44°C!! Wow! I'm sure my car would happily start in those kind of conditions. If anyone's willing to fund this research operation, please let me know on david_lamb@h... :) :)
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I'm not familiar with the Champion glowplugs so cannot comment on them. I wonder who actually makes them? There is a Japanese glowplug that has a mild steel heating coil, whereas the equivalent European make has a cobalt steel coil. (A 'commercial in confidence' undertaking prevents me giving names, but the Japanese one is not NGK.) Both makes should work OK of course, but the European one will almost certainly last longer than the other.
Glowplugs vary in length and rating so it is vital to fit the correct replacement. There can also be other differences in construction -- e.g. BERU have, for 20 years or so, offered a glowplug having two coils in series. The first coil increases in electrical resistance as it heats up and thus controls the current flowing to the heating coil in the tip. The heating coil heats incredibly quickly to a very high temperature and no 'black box' is needed since it is self-controlling. Unfortunately it costs quite a bit more to make than the simpler type so is not universally used.
Returning (again!) to the 'floor the accelerator' question, I have now seen for myself an owners handbook for a 1995 (N reg) Vauxhall estate car with the 1.7 Isuzu turbocharged diesel engine and this particular handbook definitely instructs to fully depress the accelerator when starting at temperatures under 10 degrees C. Obviously the pedal should be let up fairly promptly once the engine starts.
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just a quickie on glow plugs, my astra (isuzu turbo) is still on the original plugs at 118,000, still starts first time, except when verrrry cold.
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According to my haynes manual the glowplugs for the two different diesel engines that are turbocharged are the same Champion 158,in that case I would have assumed that Beru would be the same.I have replaced the glowplugs that were in my low pressure turbo Astra (they were Beru) with glowplugs from a Vauxhall dealer,these were also Beru and they were £36 for a set of four .Can i suggest to you again that you smear grease around the fuel filterhousing and if it improves starting you remove the gease from the joints and seals one at a time each day it may reaveal which joint is giving you trouble. HTH tonyh
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I had the same problem with my Isuzu engined Astra. I also went down the glowplug route but it turned out to be the valve clearances, fixed by VX for about £35 (including detective work) and I'm still on the original glowplugs at 134k
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