Tried to email this to HJ direct from his on-line Telegraph column this week, but the system confused my computer.
Answering one guy, HJ once again insisted that left-foot braking is best when driving an automatic because, as I understood it, autos cover more ground during an emergency stop situation as the drive is not disconnected instantly and a left foot straight on the brake is faster than moving the right foot from the accelerator to the brake.
Here's what I tried to send him. Have I been getting it wrong for 23 years?
'Sorry to have to take issue with you HJ but I really can't let you get away again with your assertions about the best way to drive an automatic.
I have owned and driven automatic cars for nearly a quarter of a century and have never ever attempted to left-foot brake. I think trying to adapt from manual transmission to drive in this fashion must be the cause of many accidents, particularly in the case of elderly drivers.
Do you actually drive autos much yourself? I have owned auto and manual cars at the same time and have never had any trouble switching between them (usually during the same day) by driving the auto right-foot only.
I don't believe there is anything in what you say about vital time being lost by shifting a foot from accelerator to brake rather than bring another foot into play - surely this must take just as long? A footrest may be at least the same distance from the brake pedal as the accelerator.
I also believe that someone left-foot braking in a panic may be inclined to stab down hard on the accelerator as well.
And - automatic gearboxes (at least the ones I have owned) freewheel when not under power so the simple act of taking the foot off the accelerator instantly disconnects the drive as braking begins.
Best wishes anyway...'
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I am with you, left foot braking is all tosh. Its only faster if your foot is hovering over the pedal.
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To be fair HJ always advises that elderly people do not switch from manuals to autos as they can get confused and cause accidents.
If you regularly switch from manuals to autos then obviously you should not try left foot braking as it could lead to confusion at some point.
If you stick with autos then left foot braking is obviously a superior method as the left foot can get to the brake quicker. Your arguement that you might stab with your left foot applies equally to your right surely?
I have driven nothing but autos for 10+ years and have never tried left foot braking as when in the car I cruise around, if I want to go mental I take the bike, therefore I have never felt the need to try but as said above it is obviously the superior method.
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>>but as said above it is obviously the superior method.
I don't agree.
Of the various cars I drive I have not found one where I can keep my heel on the floor yet the sole of my foot on the brake pedal without either giving myself ankle cramp or causing the brakes to drag. Therefore if I put my foot on the floor then it will take as long to move my foot from the floor as my right foot from the accelerator.
Left foot braking is a nonsens eon the road and only has relevance rallying and the like where one may need to brake and throttle at the same time.
It is a bunch of damaging, distracting, dangerous nonsense to recommend it for normal driving.
And basing it on automatics occasionally surging when manouvering is laughable. So, you're reversing but you have your right foot on the throttle and your left foot over the brake in case the engine "surges" What utter, improbable, physically impossible carp.
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Hurrah - about time that someone actually rubbished left foot braking and i'm glad.
The reason? Well firstly it very hard to do unless you have double jointed ankles. Secondly I think it would be far better (and faster) to learn how to set the car up properly for the corner, get your gearing right and learn slow in, fast out before looking at this tosh.
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Well I'm not that intereted in this subject but bored so I'll bite.
In the cars you drive Mark your engine surging is a physical impossibility? What wonderful machines these must be. Are they maintained by Star Fleet perchance?
Improbable I would agree with. Against the laws of physics? Not so sure about that.
The left foot CAN be lodged above the brake, say against the transmission tunnel. There it is one downward movement to depress the brake. The right foot has to move upwards across and down. Obviously left foot braking is superior because its faster. There is less distance to travel. As I said I don't do it but the logic of it is inescapable.
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I've never understood the idea of someone mistaking the brake for the accelerator at manouvering speeds - in my automatic, the "creep" at idle speeds was more than sufficient, and I just used the brake to regulate that speed.
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Obviously left foot braking is superior becauseits faster. There is less distance to travel. As I said I don't do it but the logic of it is inescapable.
I can't agree either - everything else being equal, you might save a fraction of second, but in the real world we are mostly very good at switching from accelerator to brake with the right foot because that's what we've been doing from the start - nothing I could do with my left foot now would be anywhere near as well-judged as with my right. A few years of practice might do it but umless I'm going to do that off public roads I'll be more dangerous for about 100,000 miles while I'm getting the hang of it.
The real clincher though has to be the danger when switching from auto to manual - the consequences of getting your feet mixed up don't bear thinking about.
The corollary to the right-foot-argument is that manual cars are inherently dangerous because of the need to use the right foot to brake;-)
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>>Against the laws of physics? Not so sure about that.
The physics bit was keeping both my feet on pedals but still twissting around to look towards where I am reversing.
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>>The left foot CAN be lodged above the brake, say against the transmission tunnel.
Not in either a Galaxy or a LAndcruiser.
>Obviously left foot braking is superior because its faster
Nonsense. Faster how ?
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When we had manual and auto cars at the same time I had no trouble switching from one to the other and left-footing on the auto.
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Despite Mark's tirade against those who advocate left-foot braking when manoeuvering, it's a technique I've used for years. I think you are all on the wrong track anyway; my take on this is that it's not doing it one way or another that is damaging, it's trying to change the way that you've done it habitually that may lead to accidents or unintentionally fierce braking. 20 years ago on a road I knew well, I used to left-foot brake and accelerate against the brake to get the Vauxhall Belmont company car to change down; it was smoother than kickdown and I needed the other hand to hang onto the steering wheel. Stick with what you are used to doing and what you are confident with. It's no accident that auto brake pedals are wider than those on manuals; it's to give the driver a choice. Ditch the dogma!
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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Left-foot braking seems to me to make sense for parking, or other close-quarters maneouvring. In a manual, I would have left foot over clutch while maneouvring, which allows instant disengagement of driving force, but you can't do that on an auto -- take foot off gas, and it still moves.
So when I drive an auto, I use right-foot braking on the open road, but left-foot while parking. Works for me.
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Avoid autos at all cost, but driven the odd parents car etc with one.
I'd agree with No Wheels. Use the left foot to control creep, or maybe to sustitute the footbrake for handbrake on a hill start.
On the open road I try and keep it right out of the way in case it goes for the clutch!
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>left foot braking 'LFB' takes years to learn
>I tried LFB once and never again [the last thread we had on this]
Well, it took you 4 months to learn to drive without stalling the car every time you let go of the clutch pedal. And you think you'll learn to LFB doing it once.....????
I do it the whole time. I am very proud (how sad!) that both my feet are sufficiently sensitive to rub the brake pedal gently. I swap between manuals & autos the whole time without problem.
NW is spot on that when parking an auto you need to LFB as there is no instant disengageing of the drive through depression of the clutch. Those who use the natural drive of the car to park have never tried parking on a slope.
And when approaching a potential hazard it takes no effort to cover the brake with the left foot so as to be able to manage the upcoming hazard. Brake drag??? Do you keep your foot ON the clutch the whole time? No, you cover the clutch when necessary so that it is ready to use if need be. The same goes for that nice big brake pedal.
And I like to rest my right foot from time to time. Because I can. So even in a manual on an empty motorway I might use the left foot on the gas for a while. I can. So I do.
I regard it as another skill that I have acquired & am proud to use. My driving is the better for it. Anybody using an anagram of a swear word to describe this technique is short-sighted & inflexible. (And breaking the site rules. ;))
I would not recommend that a person unused to an auto should start to drive one in old age. It is NOT easier.
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Well, at least that's what Atilla the Hun thought about LFB. Hope that's not toooo uncompromising.
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Not at all - no offence taken! Of course I use LFB for hill starts, inching etc - but I'm not about to start using it for proper braking.
I've tried it of course, and when there's plenty of thinking time it's not a problem - but I won't trust my reactions to it when it really matters and won't be taking it up.
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I tried left foot braking once but because I'm used to a hefty clutch pedal I stamped on it instead of brushing it and bashed my head on the steering wheel. Never again.
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I am always surprised by careful drivers who are perfectly able to let the clutch out gently enough to move forward without stalling yet appear unable to press a brake sufficiently gently to stop a car with their left foot without turning it over (nearly, anyway).
More interestingly, we are told that certain car manufacturers (my memory fails me) have a device fitted to their cars that when the car thinks that you are performing an emergency stop, increases the pressure on the brakes - on the basis that most drivers are too woossy to put the brakes on properly. Given ABS which most cars on the road are fitted with, I do not see the problem with a really good stamp on the brake with the left foot.
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What a load of tosh against LFB. I drive an auto Rangie and LFB all the time. It is far easier to control in traffic this way. As for swapping between manual and auto, I do this every day because my Transit is manual. It is a skill that can be learnt just like any other. I have also done emergency stops using LFB, again with no problems.
Please don't deride something just because you can't or won't do it.
--
\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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"Please don't deride something just because you can't or won't do it."
or maybe know its a waste of time so not bothering.
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"Please don't deride something just because you can't or won't do it." or maybe know its a waste of time so not bothering.
It's not a waste of time which is why I do it! I don't LFB to save time moving feet - I do it for the reasons I have stated in previous post.
--
"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do"
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i totally dont understand left foot braking
who thought up of that?
i have owned an auto for a week and it seems ok.
surely its just like having a manual but without a clutch? why dont we encourage left foot on manuals too as you will lose precious seconds getting your right foot to the brake pedal>
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What is there to understand? Why were you taught to right foot brake? You RFB because you have always done so. Open your mind to different ways of doing things.
--
\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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This debate comes up qute regularly, and the answer is always the same - a matter of personal preference.
The only objective thing worth saying is that left-foot braking probably isn't a good idea if you also drive a manual. And even with that, someone will probably be along soon who drives both and left-foot brakes with no problem. Still not a good idea unless you have plenty of experience.
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Justifying LFB because it saves time moving your foot in an emergency or because it prevents a car surging forward when manouvering is a nonsense.
I stand to be convinced by any other reasons.
Although I did think that the point about the danger being in changing what you did rather than what you actually did (if you see what I mean) was a good one.
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After reading the discussion I'm pretty sure that not once was the handbrake mentioned. Just because it's an auto it can't mean it's less useful in some situations, dealing with a slope when parking maybe?
Steve.
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OK, Glowplug fair point.
In the blue corner we have those who find using one foot in their Autos as much as they (are prepared to) use
In the red corner we have those who have bitten the bullet and use two feet in their autos.
and then we have the totally gob-smacking complicated trapeze artists who are able to use two feet AND a handbrake.
I think those who won't LFB, or tried it once and never again are missing out on the opportunity to adopt a valuable skill which may make life easier for them. They should try it & practise for a while & then reject it.
If it were a totally loony idea, then it would not have the number of advocates that it does.
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What's wrong with using the gears to slow down?
::Ducks and makes for a sharp exit::
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After reading the discussion I'm pretty sure that not once wasthe handbrake mentioned. Just because it's an auto it can't mean it's less useful in some situations, dealing with a slope when parking maybe?
Try using the handbrake in a Merc!
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Justifying LFB because it saves time moving your foot in an emergency or because it prevents a car surging forward when manouvering is a nonsense.
I dunno about this surging forward: it's never happened to me, but then I don't drive autos all that often (perhaps 1000 miles a year). However, there do seem to be suggestions that it can happen.
In any case, I find it more convenient to LFB while manouvering an auto, so I guess I'm covered against surging if it did happen (however big or small the risk). YMMV :)
Anyawy, this issue really does seem to make for a very heated thread!
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Bizarre that it should have kicked off in this way. I blame Mark. Think its a case of 'board rage'...
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I can't left foot brake naturally and my father in law who has had autos since the year dot always brakes with the right foot. I notice my auto does slow immediately the foot is removed from the accellerator and thew time taken to contact the brake pedal is minute. I think most right handed (or footed) people have greater control with that side. For once I disagree with Honest John. Pity Paul Ripley isn't still on board.
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If I tried using the handbrake in a Merc I think it would be called 'TWOCing'. I drive an old Peugeot! Still since sorting out the back brakes I use the handbrake much more, it just takes less effort now.
Steve.
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Sorry to spoil the debate but I'm seriously considering an auto next time, must be diesel turbo though. I'm sick of all the clutch work that goes with the congestion.
Steve.
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>>I can't left foot brake naturally
Oh lordy lordy. Did you drive naturally? Did you not have any lessons? Did you never stall the car when lifting the clutch? never clip the kerb? etc. etc.
Do you mean that you have never tried LFB sufficiently to get the hang of it?
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Steady Mapmaker, there is only room on this soapbox for one of us !
For me the irritation is not so much whether or not you left foot brake or right foot brake. The point about doing what is comfortable and safe for you, and avoiding unneccessary changes is a good one.
What winds me up is first the "saving time moving your foot" syndrome and the "autos *might* surge and you will be better able to stop that if you're left foot braking" effect. Both of which are ridiculous in the real world.
I also object to the idea that those who LFB are somehow superior and better, safer drivers. Not that I am implying that everybody feels or says that, but it does sometimes come across.
>Do you mean that you have never tried LFB sufficiently to get the hang of it?
No, I never have.
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Fascinating subject for someone new to autos ;-)
Can those who have mastered this two-footed approach and say it is safer because it saves valuable time by using the left rather than right foot, say where they place their left foot when driving along???
I can *almost* understand the manouvering argument, but in my limited experience of autos, I find my right foot rarely leaves the brake when manouvering, as it is controlling my momentum against the drive, never mind applying throttle as well.
When I did give the 2-footed approach a very short trial, I found it decidely uncomfortable/unnatural (as one would expect)....and people used to moan about offset pedal positions on the manual 3 series !!! Myself included :-)
Regards.
Graham.
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This thread is one in which I can no longer bite my tongue. By heck there are some pedantic people about. I have driven auto cars since 1973 as well as manuals. None of the autos has EVER surged, lunged or leapt whilst the accelerator pedal has been relaxed, that idea is simply an excuse by the incompetent to blame the mechanical bits for their lack of feel. I spent most of 1977 perfecting LFB with my XJ12 in a vain attempt to reduce the awful fuel consumption (9MPG). I got quite good at it and used it occasionally later but I feel more comfortable with RFB and generally stick with that now. Some like one system some another, neither is right or wrong. Those of you hung up on one rule fits all should relax.
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Oh go on Mark, there's room for 2. Please!
I don't believe in the saving time moving your foot either (my right foot is generally closer than the left), except when I'm approaching a hazard but daren't slow down (London syndrome) and I think it has the potential to be particularly troublesome so have left foot waiting. Once a month? Less? That probably would save me 5 feet of stopping distance.
I'm not sure about surging autos. I do know that I never feel quite comfortable that I know what an auto is going to do. There's a real delay in response between putting your foot down & something happening - not like a manual which is much more controlled. I don't believe they surge (that is mostly put down to idiots hitting the accelerator, rather than the brake, isn't it?) Having my left foot in place on the brake gives *me and quite a lot of others* a lot more security. Particularly when manoeuvering, when I wouldn't be without it.
*If* an auto *were* to surge then LFB *would* save you. But then, *provided* God exists, going to church would save you. It's a matter of faith in something that is unproved.
*I* am definitely a safer, better and superior driver through LFB. I don't know whether it would do it for you.
Give it a go. It's less putting the left foot on the brake, than releasing the brake with the left foot.
I'd been driving my first auto for about 2 months before I'd heard of LFB (on here). I wasn't sure that I liked an auto that much, owing to the difficulties I found in parking accurately and confidently. Now I am an auto convert, largely through LFB. Maybe it makes a difference that I heard about it soon after my first experience with an auto and that it solved a problem that I had identified following my conversion from a manual.
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I haven't driven an automatic for years, but having read most of the messages, I would say that it's got a lot more to do with whether you are right of left footed than anything else. We are presumibly talking here about the quickest way of getting your foot on the brake, so like any skill you'll do it faster and with more control if you use your "strongest" foot.
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Do you mean that you have never tried LFB sufficiently to get the hang of it?
We normally have a mix of autos and manuals in the household and though I have tried LFB albeit briefly, those few times have put me off trying again; I either end up almost rear ending the guy in front or the guy behind almost rear ends me!
I'm sure with enough practice I'll get the hang of LFB but as I feel quite safe, secure and comfortable with normal RFB, I don't feel it's worth the effort.
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One thing I've never understood is why the brake pedal on an auto is wider than on a manual car.
Anyone know why?
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So its easier to get to with the left foot?
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One thing I've never understood is why the brake pedal on an auto is wider than on a manual car. Anyone know why?
To stop your left foot from leaving the floor
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