|
They have an anti-rust feature built in, - from my experience every component/joint leaks so much oil that the whole engine bay is fully coated and thus protected.!!!!
|
|
|
Aren't most of the complaints due to dodgy electronics, bits that fall off and components that fail and fail again?
It seems to me that Renault have more than their fair share of these problems and maybe P & C suffer (unfairly maybe) from that to a degree.
|
I had a Xantia for seven years. Great car. No trouble you wouldn't expect over that sort of time. Towards the end the central locking started playing up. A friend had a similar problem with his Peugot and the solution seemed to be to (expensively) replace the mechanism in each door until the problem went away. So that's not why I replaced the car but it added to the arguement.
Wife's Renault hit 6 and started on a list of things that were wearing out.
John
|
|
|
Newish Citroens have excellent rust protection and robust mechanicals.The HDI motors (and this would obviously be true of Peugeots too) are probably still the best diesels in any production car today bar none.
For towing or simply shoving a ton of baggage in the boot, knowing well that you won't be breaking the (non existent) springs and ride height will automatically be maintained - there is nothing to touch them.
With great discounts when bought new you can't touch them on value for money and if you keep them long enough the heavy depreciation isn't a concern either. (Another good reason for going diesel!)
I'd concede that trim can fail if abused (but we don't go flinging Ming vases around when we know they're delicate, do we?) With care an respect they don't fall apart at all.
Electrical glitches and daft little gremlins do sometimes pop up, but again, they are often aggravated by ignorant owners or (more) ignorant garages. If maintained and driven with consideration they provide perfectly acceptable reliability and the added bonus of the 'Citroen experience'.
Graeme
|
Agree about the rust resistance of Pugs- my 1997 106 was spotless, whereas my brothers 1998 Escort had a rusty back door on the front lip and both the rear arches are going aswell.
Infact, I don't think I've ever seen a rusty 106/306 ever.
|
We've had two 309's, four 205's, a 106 and three Saxo's. Reliable & rust free, cheap to run and nice to drive, all run for well above average milage.
There is a myth going round that French cars only survive because French motorists are so stupid that they keep buying cars that they know will fall to bits just out of patriotism.
More than a touch of jealous xenophobia in that, methinks.
|
My first car was a Renault 19, I now drive a Peugeot 406. I've not consciously gone for French cars but I like the way they drive - soft seats, soft ride yet somehow at least reasonably sharp handling - and the excellent value for money.
They also seem to be quite characterful, or at least styled with some thought rather than just functional. I know there's not much image, but there's no negative image either.
When I replace my current car, its replacement will probably be French, too. I'd never rule out a car on the basis that it wasn't French but if you get a good, reliable one (and so far I can't complain for the money I've paid) I don't think you can get more for your money.
Parts prices are cheaper than the Koreans, too, as a bonus.
|
I have to concur with most of the above, and if you get a PSA diesel you get a good engine as well.
Reggie
|
|
Pug/Citroen indeed properly rust proofed their older cars but it has to be said PSA cars always had panels of tin foil quality. You look at them harder and they bend. They just look battered and tired after a decade. All those AX's and BX's with bumpers slightly out of line, 406's with dings and creases...
|
|
11 year old Citroen Xantia, only rust is a tad of surface rust at a seam on the back of the sill. The Xantia was a leap forward from earlier Citroens in build quality and the panels are no more susceptible to dings than any other car.
|
|
|
"BX's with bumpers slightly out of line"
if that's all that's wrong with a car that is at least(?) 14 years old , I'll have it! Especially since it would cost peanuts (cheap peanuts at that!)
Seriously, I've run Cits since 1986 and the only electrical problem (apart from the odd bulb) has been one new starter motor. 2 BXs (170k and 140k - both sold to friends who remained friends!) 2 Xantias (100k and current HDi Exclusive 78k) and a Berlingo (25k).
I know I should have bought Toyotas to save me the cost of that new starter motor and I know that I have wasted hundreds of pounds on RAC membership over the years when I have only called them out once (damn that starter motor, went at 120k) but I like my Cits - a little bit different, attract attention from those who mock because of their unreliablity, (or, in the case of the Berlingo, because I am Postman Pat!) but they have great space, great load carrying capacity, fantastic ride and they do what I want them to do. Oh, and by the way, they are often great value, especially second hand. And they don't rust.And the diesels are great engines.
So they suit me. They may not suit you, so be it, buy what YOU like - and enjoy it. It's a mainly free world (except if some stupid bigotted and ill-informed so and so takes a dislike to what you like and decides to ban it!)
Happy motoring.
|
I agree with most of the above although I think it's unfair to imply Renault haven't solved the rust problem. Yes Renaults, like a lot of makes, had to ability to rust at an alarming rate -I know from experience of a Renault 18. Such a shame that a brilliant car in all other respects (for its day, admittedly) was ruined by poor rust prevention.
The first Citroen that was well protected was the BX, launched in 1983. Renault were still producing the 18 until 1985/6, so it's fair to say Renault were the last of the french makes to have well protected cars in their showrooms. But by 1985/6 the 18 was an obsolete model, due to bow out for the 21.
I see an 'E' reg Renault 5 most days in our town, it's absolutely immaculate. At auction the other night I saw a 'K' reg 21 hatchback, there was no rust on it.
My new Megane is a good example of what modern Renaults can be. There is a considerable amount of plastic used on the front and rear including the front wings and the lower part of the boot lid. Both front and rear wheel arches are fitted with plastic liners. The sills seem to be integral with the floor pan so there's no potential mud trap there.
I can't see my new Megane ever being scrapped due to rust. Like most modern cars I suspect the grim reaper will call when the cost of replacing all those airbags exceeds the market value of the car.
|
|
Oh yes, forgot to add, my recently acquired Pug 205 is immaculate. Seems this was the first Peugeot to be thoroughly treated.
|
Oh yes, forgot to add, my recently acquired Pug 205 is immaculate. Seems this was the first Peugeot to be thoroughly treated.
I believe the 309 was the first to use better rust protection, but later 205s probably continued it.
|
The xud diesel engine (particularly the turbo version) is indeed one of the all time classic diesel engines. They came out at a time when other passenger car diesel engines were appalingly agricultural. They literally blew the competition out of the water and remained the number 1 diesel engine until VW introduced the TDi engines around 1997.
A brilliant engine for the time and one that still holds up quite well today.
|
French cars are okay for people who :-
1) are only interested in a means of basic transport
2) are not concerned in any way about build-quality
3) are not image conscious
4) are not too worried about depreciation
My wife had a nearly new Citroen a while ago, and whilst it was a reliable and economical little car, it had nothing but niggling electrical problems, and lost its value like a meteorite !
|
You don't see many rusty cars these days - of any brand. Ford seem to still have a few minor problems, but the days when you had to scrap a rotted car at 8 years old are long gone.
If the French could only improve their electrics and make the cars a little easier to work on then I think they would be more successful in the UK.
|
We have 2 11 year old cars: A Peugeot 106 bought new by SWMBO. And a Fiesta 1.1 bought 3 years ago by youngest son.
The Fiesta has the classic rear wheel arches and petrol filler cap rust. The Peugeot has been garaged all its life and has creeping rust along the seam welds underneath.
The Ford is reliable and when it does need to be worked on is very simple. The Peugeot was obviously designed by a bunch of engineers who never thought of maintenance, reliability or simplicity.
Reading the BBs, not much has changed. French design appears to think nothing of post new repairs and maintenance.. Pity cos they are much nicer to drive..
madf
|
Don't know about the rust but my wife took delivery of a Pug 307 hire car yesterday with just 5 miles on the clock. She was told at pick up that the engine warning light was on, but don't worry about it - after a couple of hundred miles it went off, but was back on again this morning. The airbag warning light was also illuminating this morning and she has just rang to say as she got to the garage a brake fault was being indicated and she couldn't lock it with the key fob.
Not bad for a new car!
|
The Citroen ZX I had was appalling- had a potentially lethal habit of losing power that was only cured by letting come to a near standstill and bump starting.... But it was a year old when I bought it with 53 miles on the clock.
My wife has got an L reg 106 Diesel. Marginally quicker than walking, but keeps going. Is ideal car for going round town in, cheap to run and maintain- and still looks quite fresh despite its age.
Funny thing was though, once drove it from my parents house close to Okehampton and Crediton, and didn't take that much longer than in my car. Was also fun as had to concentrate on not losing momentum on the twisty hilly bits.
|
|
Journey was to Weston Super Mare- about 80 miles including 45 of M-Way and dual carriageway.
|
|
That is a very common story with Peugeots. After someone kindly wrote off my 306 (a great car) I got a 307 in a hurry, and it was plagued by electrical problems. Random warning lights come on, operating the windscreen wipers turns on the headlights etc. The problem is the COM2000 switch as all the electrics go through this switch behind the steering wheel casing (AFAIK) and so any problem cab show as something completely different. My car was a 51 reg. It took 4 months to get a replacement switch as so many cars needed them, and it was still faulty. I finally took it back to the garage as it was not safe to drive, and bought a Honda Civic. My other half has had two 406s with the same problems, although on a lesser scale. He now has a Mondeo estate and neither of us are likely to buy Peugeot again - they were always great to drive, but the COM2000 switch saga has made our minds up!
|
French cars are okay for people who :- 1) are only interested in a means of basic transport 2) are not concerned in any way about build-quality 3) are not image conscious 4) are not too worried about depreciation
So they never have good handling and a good ride then?
|
|
My two 405s, 306, brothers 309 and friends 205 had fantastic ride / handling, great engines (all over 100k) no rust, comfy seats, and rubbish electrics.
|
I agree - had an Espace which was great, and no metal in the chassis either!!
I'm looking forward to seeing the Citroen C6 (lounge on wheels?), and the Peugeot 607 is fabulous value at 3 years old, if it lux barge motoring you're after, with luggage space enough to go off on a 6 month holiday.
|
Many of Which's remarks on Peugeot /Citroen start I believe rather like HJ's "How to buy a secondhand Citroen XM"
ie. What goes Wrong? Where do we start?
Multilpexed wiring systems that garages don't understand? Not for me thanks...
madf
|
French cars are okay for people who :- 1) are only interested in a means of basic transport 2) are not concerned in any way about build-quality 3) are not image conscious 4) are not too worried about depreciation
I think Image is paramount in the Hot Hatch Sector which French Cars Thrive.
And I wouldn't say Hot Hatches are just a means of basic Transport.
|
I think Image is paramount in the Hot Hatch Sector which French Cars Thrive. And I wouldn't say Hot Hatches are just a means of basic Transport.
All i'm going to say to that is Peugeot 205 1.9 GTI :-)
|
SWMBO drives a ten year old 306 1.8 SR Sedan. Interior fit is a bit chunky and the exterior paint scratches if you so much as look at it, but;
+ Not a spot of body rust to be found, even underneath when determinedly looking for it.
+ Design still looks crisp, attractive, and uncontrived.
+ Still on the original exhaust.
+ Not one electrical gremlin or failure; not even door wiring or airbag connector.
+ No squeaks or rattles (and believe me I would know if there were; I hate them!)
+ Best ride and handling setup of any car at any price I have ever driven; magic carpet and grip and poise with feedback.
+ 100% reliable
+ Costs buttons to run.
Having driven and for a number of reasons been disappointed with earlier and later Pugs, but enjoyed other 306s in many guises, I conclude that the 306 - both first and second generation - was Peugeot at the top of their game.
|
Well said. I think that the 306 marks the transition for peugeot from the older, less hi tech cars which were excellent in design, handling and reliability (205,306)to the newer, less originally designed and less reliable models like the 307.
Just IMHO.
|
I would agree with that, as much as I like Peugeots they seem to be having a few problems with the 307 at the moment. Some of our best cars have been Peugeots, 504's, 505's, 205.
Love the 407, could be tempted...
|
Love the 407, could be tempted...
Until recently I ran a 406 as a company car. I'm noted for looking after cars and being gentle with them :-) but it got to the stage with my local dealer where I'd take the car in for service or repair and the wouldn't commit to a time when it would be ready, merely saying they'd give me a call. Routine 20K service would turn into 3 days, with brake and suspension rebuilds being routine.
It also had an on-going engine management fault from 18mths old intil the time I got rid of it - it got to the stage where the leasing company offered to let me return it 3 moths early - I think they'd had enough.
What was particularly galling was that Peugeot head office didn't give a toss, and my car was leased from a fair sized leasing company and I work for a biggish company. It didn't help that the dealer was stunningly useless - they never seemed to know what was wrong with the car and frequently didn't fix things. I was left off the road for days at a time. I dread to think how much it could have been if it was my own car. I pity the poor person who bought it after me (I did warn on here).
|
An all too common story about peugeot dealer i'm afraid. Has anyone got a good word to say about them?
I too love the look of the 407 and i am looking for a new car of that size - the 306 is just a bit too small now. But i can't stand the thought of being tied to a Peugeot dealer for 3 years...so i am looking at the honda accord.
Ah, the 504. What a great car. still alive and well in west africa i believe, they are totally indestructable.
|
|
Good Peugeot dealer: We used Fussell Wadman in Chirton, near Devizes, Wiltshire. Had no problems with them but I believe they no longer exist. The dealer in Bath, think they're called Oval, were fine.
|
Storm Autos, New Yatt, Oxon.
A terrific Pug indy.
Well priced.
Excellent workmanship.
Very approachable, accommodating, knowledgeable, and helpful; they deserve all the business that they get.
We make a round trip of nearly 100 miles to use them rather than the dealer on our doorstep for the items that I don't have the time or inclination to do; so far cam belt and pre-emptive change of water pump after eight years, lambda probe after nearly 10 years, brake fluid at ten years (I bottled out of touching the never-moved-before bleed nipples) pre-MOT checks (all free, with no work needed), and next day supply of a new OEM door mirror (less than half Pug dealer cost and I then had the excuse for a run over on the motorbike to collect it!)
|
|
Storm Autos also come highly recommended by several members of the Peugeot Sport Official Owners Club - for both general maintenance and also modifications.
|
|
|
|
|
|
