Hi All,
I have just become a new owner of Steptronic gearbox - plus car of course :-) and am just getting used to it after 20+ years of manuals.
One question that I wonder about is momentary stops i.e. queues of taffic and red traffic lights etc.
I'm sure I have read to conflicting sets of advice. One was in the HJ column in the Telegraph, saying to select neutral as it causes less wear to the auto box;
contraryu advice is given on the RoSPA web site (I'm a RoADA member), saying to leave it in "D" and the converter will not suffer and it is better to do it this way.
I suppose each may be coming from a different perspective, but would like to adopt good habits from the start. The owner's manual is completely devoid of any "how to drive" typse advice for the scenario I give.
Grateful for thoughts and advice.
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Depends on the duration of the 'stop'. SWMBOs 330 has a auto box (tiptronic) and when I drive I tend to leave it in 'D' and the car seems to idle as calmly as if it were in 'N'. The only way I cna describe it is that in a 'conventional' auto - drive is always engaged to if you have a car in 'D' then you must keep your foot on the foot brake to prevent it from moving forward. In the 330, when we come to a halt, leave it in 'D' the car doesn't pull forward if you lift off the brake...only when you tap the accelerator does it move forward purpsoefully.
Given this, we leave it in 'D' - unless it is for extended period of time. Guess you'll ahve to figure out whats best for your own car and personal preference.
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Im not plain stupid, just a special kind of stoopid.
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Very rarely shift out of 'D' - only if it looks like a long stop.
HJ will probably be along soon to urge you to use left foot braking, which I tried once and never again.
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Many modern, ECU controlled, auto boxes - my brother's conventional torque converter V70 D5 auto included, and by the sound of it the 330 just mentioned - have a neutral control facility that automatically places the box in neutral if drive is engaged at idle whilst stationary for more than a few seconds. As soon as the throttle is depressed, such as to move away, drive resumes.
Of course the party trick (used sparingly because it is not mechancially or thermally sympathetic) of deploying the considerable torque by stalling the torque converter against the brake (i.e. depressing brake and a gentle throttle together) doesn't take advantage of neutral control, but the getaway is most impressive when the brake is sidestepped and throttle simultaneously fully depressed!
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When reading a BMW mag, it mentioned that on older models, you're supposed to leave it in 'D' when stopping at lights because its supposed to help lubricate the converter IIRC.
Also if you were to have a tuning session in a conventional auto, you can run the risk of wrecking the auto 'box because leaving it in 'N' can cause damage to the idling shaft or something like that!
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Its not what you drive, its how you drive it! :-)
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"stalling the torque converter against the brake (i.e. depressing brake and a gentle throttle together) doesn't take advantage of neutral control, but the getaway is most impressive when the brake is sidestepped and throttle simultaneously fully depressed!"
I?m glad you posted this SjB. This is how I always move off from the lights but I never realised it was a recognised technique or why it seemed to give me that extra bit of grunt. I actually discovered it a few years ago when a minor fault was causing the car to stall at tickover so at the lights I was pressing the gas an inch and holding it with the brake. It?s like sitting there and winding up a huge rubber band then letting it go. It eventually became a habit.
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>>This is how Big Bad Dave always moves off from the lights
Big Bad Dave will be heading for a new autobox. It overheats the ATF & will wear your box out quicker. I just hope I don't get your car after you've finished with it!
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"Big Bad Dave will be heading for a new autobox."
You don?t change autoboxes on Peugeot 605s. It?s cheaper to buy another 605 than it is to put one in the car wash.
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Unless I've missed it, no-one has yet mentioned that unless you have a neutral control facility you will have to keep your foot on the brake if you leave the transmission in Drive. If the lights are red for a long time this can annoy the driver behind.
I think I saw some time ago that someone got prosecuted for this by some idiot Plod with a quota to meet. (At the same time four houses were burgled in the area....)
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I tend to stay in D but put the hand brake on; I take it off on orange and trickle away smoothly. (Unless putting some chav in his place!)
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I put car in neutral and put h/brake on, unless the wait is likely to be short.
I like left foor braking, but it took a while to get used to it. Very handy on 'drioving' roads with lots of variation in speed. Much more control over the car.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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My concern about this (having recently moved to auto) is that my previous (manual) car had a lot of probs with brake disk distortion.
I read somewhere that this often tends to be caused by keeping the brake pads engaged with the disk after stopping ? either the disk does distort, or the surface of the pad ?transfers? to the disk and can build up (I?ve certainly seen imprints of the outline of the pad on the disk).
Anyway, I developed the technique of feathering braking until I was generally able to release the brake momentarily before stopping, and then holding the car on the handbrake. I didn?t have any further probs with brake disk distortion.
I?ve found this just doesn?t work on the auto ? the car seems to need to be braked fairly firmly to a stop and then held on the brake. Switching to handbrake (actually awkward footbrake, as it?s a Merc) doesn?t really help at the point as there isn?t the movement to release the pads. I'm hoping the Merc won't suffer from the disk distortion probs.
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Yep I had the same problem on my old Merc and on SWMBO Hyundai Trajet. Its a pain, but I would rather not pay for new discs.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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I guess it's possible there are different guidelines for all the variations of auto 'boxes manufactured thesedays but I always keep mine in Drive and forget about shifting until I'm parking or reversing. To me the whole point of buying an auto is the ability to cut out all the faffing around with gears. Do people really make the effort to switch to neutral everytime they stop at traffice lights? That sounds a little bizarre to me!
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Just got back after another day in the Beemer 330D auto :-)
Thanks for all the replies - much appreciated and interesting to hear all the variations. I found that when at rest and if left in Drive, the car does creep forward, so I assume I haven't got this "neutral" facility even after being static a while. So either have to select Neutral or keep it in drive - and use the handbrake to secure (can't abide 3 sets of brakelights glaring at me, so can't do that to others :-) Pity, as I had hoped I could just leave it in Drive and not worry about the engine trying to turn the wheels against the handbrake - that just doesn't feel healthy, although if the stop was clearly a short one, foot/handbrake leaving the selector in D would be my preferred option.
Got the hang of no clutch quickly, enough, I just find my self trying to do a gear stick waggle to confirm neutral...old habits eh... ;-)
oh... and fuel consumption ...between 42 and 46 on open road and m-way.
Thanks again.
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I found that when at rest and if left in Drive, the car does creep forward, so I assume I haven't got this "neutral" facility even after being static a while.
I thought all autos crept forward unless the brakes are applied. Not sure how the beemer works, but the autobox on my Vectra drops into neutral within a couple of seconds of detecting the brake lights are on. As soon as the brake pedal is released the gearbox engages a gear again. If I only use the handbrake, then the gearbox doesn't drop into neutral.
Personally I just leave my foot on the brake pedal when at the lights, and only drop it into neutral with the handbrake on if I'm going to be waiting in a queue of traffic for some time.
::awaits comments of burning peoples retina's with my brake lights::
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There surely is not much effort in putting it into neutral and then back into gear.
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There surely is not much effort in putting it into neutral and then back into gear.
Easier just to keep my foot on the brake pedal.
To engage drive I have to touch the brake pedal anyway to unlock the gate that stops the gearstick being accidentally knocked into drive.
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To engage drive I have to touch the brake pedal anyway to unlock the gate that stops the gearstick being accidentally knocked into drive.
Not from Neutral, surely?
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Not from Neutral, surely?
Yep. If the gearstick is left in N for a couple of seconds without the brake pedal being pressed, then the only way to move it to any other position is to touch the brake pedal. There's even a little brake pedal symbol next to the lever that comes on to remind you to press the pedal before attempting to move the lever.
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Yeh thats correct after a long braking period the brake pads should be released off the discs to allow the discs to cool. If this is not done the discs will distort over time.
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... someone got prosecuted for this by some idiot Plod with a quota to meet. (At the same time four houses were burgled in the area....)
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Not sure how you expect the Police to be psychic when it comes to hosues being burgled in all honesty. Last time I checked that was only in the realms of filmaking.
You can be dealing with a 'stop' (traffic or otherwise) while couple of streets down someone's house may be getting burgled - but how're you to know...unless the call comes through you won't be aware. So what four houses were burgled at the same time he was writing out a ticket? If ya don't know at the time, how can ya be criticised?
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Im not plain stupid, just a special kind of stoopid.
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I used to shift into neutral at traffic lights and then back into drive when they went amber. Grandad does the same, except he tends to shift into drive and floor it immediately. I always feel sorry for his car, but as it only does 2000 miles a year now it's probably OK.
Mum's Range Rover on the other hand won't let you shift from D - N or the other way round without pushing the button on the lever. Surprised this is so, as I thought it was a safety feature that the box could be shifting out of Drive without pushing any other buttons.
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