Can the collective knowledsge give me some advice. Decided to treat myself to a 3 year old large exec for family use. Im very tall 6'4" and got 2 growing kids and need lots of room. Always been a car nut and like large capacity petrol engines.
Choices are new shape BMW745, Audi A8, or Merc S430/500.
Which is going to give best overall ownership pleasure and lifecycle costs.
Must admit preference is BMW but am I right?
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If i was looking for that kind of car i'd probably be tempted by an S8.
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I believe that if you buy a new 7 series then you can buy your first 5 years maintenance for just £500.
Should make it quite a predictable and maybe even affordable option I would think?
Blue
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An acquaintance of mine had a new 7 series and had a myriad of woes with it, primarily electrical. The final straw came when the fuel tank sender was replaced and the main dealer failed to ensure that the tank had been properly sealed. The car was returned during the working day and the keys left with his secretary. By the time he came down to drive home in the evening, the forecourt of his business was awash with unleaded.....
Because of the long list of problems BMW agreed to a full refund after some fairly heavy duty letters went back and forth between the interested parties.
Local dealer admitted it wasn't the first 7 they had to buy back.
Aprilia will doubtless fill you in on the, er, issues, that can afflict S class electrics.
A8 sounds like a good choice. Have you considered the Phaeton? Must be a few of those filtering down at more sensible money now.
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Now that is a bright idea -- a Phaeton. As HJ sometimes says, dare to be different. I've seen some testers/commentators describing that car with spadefuls of superlatives. I see that I anticipated this eventuality nearly two years ago:
tinyurl.com/apsva
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I suspect the day to day costs will not be significantly different. It is the long life costs that will be the crunch factor; and I would suggest that would rule out the 7 Series BMW.
Mercs have traditionally had cast iron residuals, but lots of doubts on the quality of current models are being expressed. What is the health warning on buying shares? "Past performance is no guarantee ---- etc"
I would still go for the Merc though.
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'Nearly new' 3.2 V6 Phaetons are now available for £25k.
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Have you thought about an XJ or an S Type?
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New aluminium XJ, rather understated though dynamically fab.
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S8 - nice! Certainly a choice that both the head and the heart can vote for....
I'd have a look at the Lexus LS430 too. It's probably as reliable as your going to get in this class and the dealers are also probably the best in the business, if it ever does go wrong.
May be not be as involving to drive as a 7 series/S class/A8 though.
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You didn't mention budget, but seeing as you like large petrol engines, I assume "large!" Nonetheless, you might like to try the two big French jobs: the Vel Satis and the Peugeot 607. Both suffer fabulous depreciation and at 2 years old, will be real bargains.
Comfort not speed of course, being French!
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I wouldn't put either of those anywhere near the A8/7 series/S class category. But now you've reminded me if you do fancy something a bit different how about an Avantime?
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Aventime! ooo yes, now that has class! I am really starting to lust after one of those
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Had a tst drive in an Avantime about two years ago. It drove like a canal narrow boat. No handling at all, and wallowed everywhere.
If I was going to buy a luxobarge, I would look at the diesel engined models as they are 95% as good as the pterol ones for 50% better economy. In some cases there are more diesels around to buy than petrols.
So
BMW 730d
Merc S320CDi
Audi A8 4.0TDI
VW Phaeton 5.0 V10 TDi!!!!!! Yes yes yes
Alternatively - Volvo S80 2.9, nearly new
IF you realy want petrol, then go Lexus 430 everytime. Far and away the most reliable and relaxing to drive. Whats the point of a luxobarge if you can't relax. The others have rides that are way too harsh in comparison.
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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My choice would be a Daimler Super V, but I'm biased.
Kevin...
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I'm suprised that either a Focus or a mondeo hasn't been mentioned yet!
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Never really looked at the Phaeton before ir seen one on the roads around here so it came as a total suprise to me that a Volkswagon could actually be soooo desireable! :-)
Just had a look on the Veedub website and OMG it's gorgeous! I like big cars a lot, too much for my own good in fact, I can't afford them, but that really has impressed me that VW could produce something as classy as that, I thought it was just an expanded Passat until I had a look.
Now I just need to find a car for £15K or less that offers massagers built into the seats! :-D
Blue
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I was behind a Phaeton on the A40 in London a couple of weeks ago. Didn't really do much for me - looked very similar to an A8 but was missing a nice Audi badge.
Have you thought about 4x4's? (boo, hiss, I know). I'm not a fan personally, but if you're looking for a big comfy cruiser, the Range Rover, X5, Cayenne and XC90 are all perfectly suited to carry larger human beings very comfortably.
What about a Chrysler 300C? Not the best reviewed car in the world, but by god what a cool, mafia-type looking car!
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What's the correct pronunciation of "Phaeton":
* "fighton"
* "fayton"
* "feeton"
* other?
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Always thought it was "feeton".
Pretty sure I heard the top gear boys pronouncing it "fayton"
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Ah ha. Insofar as I can decipher the OED's pronunciation symbols, they reckon it's either "fayton" or "fayiton". I think we'll settle on the former.
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Phaeton? Its pronounced
" 'oh 'ver 'pry 'sed " and " 'un 'pop' 'yew ler "
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My son did badly on an A level exam because he didn't read the exam question.
Motormark asked for opinions on the BMW/Audi/Merc. To date we have had recommendations on:
Phaeton - and how it is pronounced
XJ
S Type
Lexus 430
Vel Satis
Peugeot 607
Avantime
Cadillac CTS
Daimler Super V
XJR
Focus/Mondeo ? by someone making the same point as myself!!
Range Rover
X5
Cayenne
XC90
Chrysler 300C
Inevitably nasty diesel versions of the BMW/Audi/Merc despite the originator saying he liked petrol engines.
Lots of you have failed the exam and need to be spanked!
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::Points to the word "discussion" at top of page::
No Do$h - Alfa-driving Backroom Moderator
mailto:moderators@honestjohn.co.uk
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::Points to the word "discussion" at top of page:: No Do$h - Alfa-driving Backroom Moderator mailto:moderators@honestjohn.co.uk
Exactly - just widening it a little!
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my mention of the focus and mondeo was tongue in cheek as no matter what car you are considering one of those two always end up being suggested!
My initial suggestion of the S8 still stands
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I would add that it wouldn't be the first time that someone asks "what about a, b or c" and has ended up buying "d" after it has been suggested in here. It's not unsual that someone hasn't covered all the possibilities when drawing up a short list.
I specifically recall a young chap who came on here nearly three years ago asking for opinions on the Focus and the V40 estate. He ended up buying some italian estate car instead and has loved every moment of ownership.
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my mention of the focus and mondeo was tongue in cheek as no matter what car you are considering one of those two always end up being suggested!
As I have stated frequently.
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Motormark ends his post with "am I right?" clearly leaving the door open to discussion and suggestion. The answer can only be an S8 though.
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Motormark ends his post with "am I right?" clearly leaving the door open to discussion and suggestion. The answer can only be an S8 though.
Another failure to read exam question!!
He said:
"Must admit preference is BMW but am I right?"
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To which I can say "no you are not, you?re preference should be another car entirely"
You need a refresher course in exam marking!
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"Must admit preference is BMW but am I right?"
To which the answer is "No".
There, question answered. That was a short thread, wasn't it?
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Great minds think alike. Sadly so do Big Bad Dave and I.
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Thanks to ALL the repondants.
In summary had thoughgt about A8/S8 but am concerned about residuals that new shape car is out, Quattro drive train problems (heard horror stories about uneven tryres wrecking tranmission!)
"Fayton" just aBMW and think would be hard to move on in future.
I like big 4x4 but also like a sporty drive sometimes and none can be regarded like that.
Love shape of jags but speca in old shape XJ and S a problem and think it will be hard to find good new shape 4.2 for my budget (£28K)
As to Mondeo/Focus, good cars but not quite what I was looking for.
Owned 2 of last BMW including M5 and various 3 series . Current car an E240 hence the prefenec for german.
Juies still out will probably come down to best car of all 3 or perhaps 4 (A8) that I find.
Mark
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In summary had thoughgt about A8/S8 but am concerned about residuals that new shape car is out,
You should be able to get a new shape A8 for £28K - seen a few in Autotrader in the 30K bracket that you should be able to talk down to 28K.
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Drove a Lexus GS430 earlier this year. Fabulous luxobarge
--
I read often, only post occasionally
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As others have suggested, if you want good old fashioned luxury waftability (rather than a large sports saloon) combined with reasonable running costs, worry free reliability and dealers which make you look forward to a service have a close look at the Lexus (LS430 ideally).
The A8 is also worth a look but check out whether you find the ride too hard for a luxury car.
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>Love shape of jags but speca in old shape XJ and S a problem
The Daimler Super V is a Jag XJR in drag. It has the same supercharged 4.0 V8 but comes with a higher standard spec than a Sovereign and an impressive option list.
They are fairly rare but £28K should buy you a good 3 or 4yo example with SatNav, headrest DVD, electric rear bucket seats, etc. etc.
They ride better than BMW,Audi,Merc and are a damn sight prettier that an LS430.
Kevin...
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I would pick the S Class without question.
To me, its one of the few Mercedes left that just exudes class with everything it does. It is a simply beautiful car, and looks exactly how a luxury car should. It also has the right image - you watch any film where somebody is supposed to have a lot of money, and if he has a big saloon, he has a Mercedes Benz S Class.
The 7 is ugly - less so now - the A8, as technically amazing as it is, looks like a big A6.
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you watch any film where somebody is supposed to have a lot of money, and if he has a big saloon, he has a Mercedes Benz S Class.
Ah but from the way says he likes large capacity petrol engines it seems as if he likes to make good progress shall we say in which case watch a film called Ronin and then you know the choice must be the S8!
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But the S8 is old shape, a shape that has been around for many years and looks very similar to the £4-5k bargain bucket examples kicking around at the bottom of Autotrader.
An S8 doesn't look like the ultimate luxobarge. An S class does.
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>> you watch any film where somebody >> is supposed to have a lot of money, and if he >> has a big saloon, he has a Mercedes Benz S Class. >> Ah but from the way says he likes large capacity petrol engines it seems as if he likes to make good progress shall we say in which case watch a film called Ronin and then you know the choice must be the S8!
Shame it couldn't outrun the xm chasing it!!
So following logic, the xm 24v is the winner (with reference to large capacity engine, luxobarge + making decent progress).
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Shame it couldn't outrun the xm chasing it!! So following logic, the xm 24v is the winner (with reference to large capacity engine, luxobarge + making decent progress).
I always thought the XM was being chased by the S8 and not the other way round....
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Of course film makers go for S class cars to denote money - they don't read this site, nor do film-going public! We know it's the top "brand" but that wasn't the question was it?
Can I widen the query - why do makers assume luxury has to come with 4 whopping seats and 2 tons of weight? Once the kids are gone, who needs such size?
Or is the CLK-type really just a 2+2 version of the S class? I, for one, doubt it. Why is the Phaeton (fayton - I asked VW) not a 2 seater?
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"Once the kids are gone, who needs such size? "
Judging by the size of some of the mid 50s/early 60s drivers of S class Mercedes I have seen, the drivers (and their partners!) would not fit in anything smaller..*
We're not an obese nation for nothing you know:-)
* certainly NOT in a Focus or Mondeo
madf
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There's something about the mass and its distribution in a large car that makes the ride difficult to beat. Cut out the excess that's popular in North America and you have reasonable handling as well. There are luxurious 2+2 cars and the like, but the ride ain't the same. Having recently acquired a W126 MB (the 1980s S-class), I have been reminded of those facts; it's making my W124 Coupé feel taut and sporty for the first time.
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