Since we have covered lorries, caravans, cyclists already can I add motor bikes to the equation?
I know there are many bikers in the backroom but can you tell me why oh why oh why do bikers need to undertake / overtake / zig zag and do whatever else they want to on the road??
Don't get me wrong, I am not totally anti biking and I have no problem with them slowly edging their way to the front of stationary traffic queues.
However I do object to them weaving in and out of motorway traffic that is doing 70mph. Do they think there is an extra lane for them that is on the dotted line? I had a close one last night having overtook a car on M8, looked in mirror, signalled and pulled in to inside lane just as motorbike went whizzing past on my inside. When driving at night I look in mirror and brain automatically checks the headlights in each lane. It is very hard to distinguish a motorbike headlight travelling between the lines of traffic.
So bikers, why do you do this? Have you a death wish? You will always come off second best, even if it is a car driver's error. So why not sit in the line of traffic? Does the huge adrenaline rush you get from swerving in between cars continue on whilst you are lying on the stretcher in the ambulance?
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This subject has been done to death before on the backroom, but please don't tar us all with the same brush by saying "bikers". "Some bikers", yes, but "bikers", no.
For the record I will overtake, and I will filter, but not in heavy motorway traffic, at speed.
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I would guess that 99% of bikers are considerate, careful riders. It's the 1% that can't ride that cause the problem. The only thing that drives me up the wall is when they overtake on blind corners - a couple of times I've gone around a bend in Devon to find a motorbike on my side of the road doing 60-70MPH in a 40 limit.
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More than happy to be a Motorcyclist than a biker. See Motorcycle Sport - more than in tune with my view of the motorcycling world.
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More than happy to be a Motorcyclist than a biker. See Motorcycle Sport - more than in tune with my view of the motorcycling world.
In the same way I prefer to think of myself as a motorist rather than a car driver.
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I had a design partnership in London and like many thousands of other businesses we relied heavily on courier bikers. A good biker doing some "creative" riding would give us a much needed extra 30 minutes on a deadline. They have saved my backside more times than I could shake a stick at so what do I care if they wanna do a bit of weaving, they really are keeping the wheels of industry turning.
The next biker you curse may quite literally be putting his life on the line to deliver a package for a bunch of lazy idiots who spent too long in the pub at lunch time.
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Right there with ya Buddy. Sorry, but I have little sympathy with people of that fraternity and sometimes the absolute stupidity jsut astounds me - somehow having two wheels allows them to believe that they are exempt from common sense, rules of physics and road traffic law, kind of like Black Cab Drivers in London - but I fear I digress ;)
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Bikers who ride like idiots to deliver a package on time cause someone else failed to grasp the respective timeframe do not deserve any prase. Will the company boss for whom they are delivering come and see hem in hospital, will they vist the respective widow/parents to say it was all our fault your husband/wife/son was riding like a clown we had a tight timescale. Undertaking, overtaking on double whites, overtaking before right hand junctions, cresting hills with the front wheel in the air, and riding beyond your capability all eventually leads to someone getting seriously hurt.
"Ride to arrive" is a well used phrase which some bikers should attempt to remember.
Saying that i and over 600 other motorcyclists had a superb afternoon out last saturday delivering Easter eggs to disabled children homes and the local children ward at Taunton.Did i see any bad riding no but bad driving from the inconsiderate BMW driver who could not wait AND had to pull out into the stream of motorcyclists.
If you want to bad motorcyclista then join the queue, but pound for pound the car driver with a bike license is less of a danger on the road to other motorists than the non bike license holder.
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I dont have a problem with them myself. If they wanna go whizzing past me, they can, as long as they dont expect me to swerve/brake 40+ tonnes just for their benefit.
Anyhow, where else are we going to find such a plentiful supply of organ doners.
WTM
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Like so many other groups of road users, the actions of a few can tarnish the considerate, careful and curteous riding of the many.
Those that do ride like their leathers are on fire are simply heading to an accident and sooner rather than later. Chances are that once they arrive at the accident scene they'll not be getting onto a bike again anytime soon.
Let's not condemn the majority of decent riders here.
-- Lee Having a Fabialous time.
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I (personally) ride with full consideration for other road users but I have no hesitation in exploiting the performance and manoeuvrability of my machine: that's what I bought it for. Deal with it.
Think of it this way: the benefit to you is I'm one less cage holding you up. The benefit to me is I'm cracking open my first stubbie of the evening while you're still stuck at junction whatever it is on your way home.
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So bikers, why do you do this? Have you a death wish? You will always come off second best, even if it is a car driver's error. So why not sit in the line of traffic? Does the huge adrenaline rush you get from swerving in between cars continue on whilst you are lying on the stretcher in the ambulance?
I guess in just the same way that some car drivers insist on tailgating and undertaking on the motorway!!!! [ie. that we all tend to remember the foolish moves we see, and that a few people drive without due regard for others].
I do filter (indeed was strongly encouraged to do so by the class 1 police instructor on my course) but will always prefer to go down the right hand side of a car rather than the left.
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I do filter (indeed was strongly encouraged to do so by the class 1 police instructor on my course) but will always prefer to go down the right hand side of a car rather than the left.
As Marlot says, but on a 3 lane motorway the best place to filter is between lane 2 and 3. As a general rule, you filter at no more than 20mph faster than the traffic up to about 50mph when you rejoin one of the main lanes. It is more dangerous which is why you have to be absolutely alert all the time - not the case for lots of car drivers on the motorway as I'm sure you'll agree!
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I am a biker (and a car driver) but can't really get excited by this thread. Yes there are bad bikers but they tend to get Darwined out over time. There are far far more bad car drivers who get saved by their airbags/crumple zones to do something stupid again.
My tip for improving car driving would be to remove all safety aids and have a large spike inserted in to the centre of the steering weheel, pointy end out. Then maybe they would think about the consequences of their actions.
As for black cab drivers...
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In answer to the original question, it is because we can.
I would agree though that there is a time and a place for everything and the biker bears more responsibility than the car driver for an action that may be unexpected by the car driver.
As previously stated he will also probably be the injured one if it goes wrong.
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Mutual respect folks, it's a beautiful thing. :)
You could equally ask why car drivers change lanes without looking and turn right without indicating. The only thing about bikers that really bothers me is the way they zip up the side of traffic jams, but admittedly that's driven by envy because I can't do it!
A very timely thread though - Bikesafe (www.bikesafe.co.uk) launches this weekend.
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You see the problem is that the car driver has his heater, radio, the kids, the mental belief that nothing can hurt him.
Rant=1
Now the biker, no radio distraction, not smoking, no kids, the wife cannot be heard. The only thing we concentrate on is riding the bike. We read body language in the way car drivers place their cars. We anticipate what car drivers MAY do.
We don't have the distractions the car drivers have so we concentrate on riding the bike. Mad. No. Just a bit more in control.
Rant=0
Clive.
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Thank you Clive. I wish I'd said that.
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You see the problem is that the car driver has his heater, radio, the kids, the mental belief that nothing can hurt him. Rant=1 Now the biker, no radio distraction, not smoking, no kids, the wife cannot be heard. The only thing we concentrate on is riding the bike. We read body language in the way car drivers place their cars. We anticipate what car drivers MAY do. We don't have the distractions the car drivers have so we concentrate on riding the bike. Mad. No. Just a bit more in control. Rant=0 Clive.
Which is why bikers accident rate is so low?
Before you do the usual of blaming car drivers for your mishaps, look at the statistics which show the very high percentage of accidents to bikes with no other vehicles involved. I think it was posted here a while ago - but it can be found on the Web.
Whenever a thread like this appears, bikers and ex-bikers spring to the defence. Most of us who have been bikers retain some degree of enthusiasm for motorbikes - even if it just buying the occasional magazine. However nothing can escape the fact that the standard of riding, particularly in the urban environment, is often appalling; and by a lot more than 1% of riders.
That said I have just had a few days in Rome and that puts things in perspective!
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>The only thing we concentrateon is riding the bike. We read body language in the way car drivers place their cars. We anticipate what car drivers MAY do.
The biker who tried to sideswipe me last weekend on the M6 didn't read anyone's "body language." I'd been alongside him for maybe five seconds in lane 2 when he decided to move left (he was overtaking me, so it's not as if I did anything) and he came so close I could have reached out and stolen his wallet. When he finally twigged he was probably going to die he accelerated back into lane three and almost ran into the back of the obligatory Mercedes Sprinter at 70+mph. That had been there the whole time too. Those sports bikes do look good standing on their front wheel only--credit to him for not going over the bars. I think the number of idiots who are barely in control is way more than 1%, by the way.
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One thing that car drivers need to appreciate about bikes is that the biker's all-round vision is not as good as yours.
Mirrors have limited coverage, which has to be supplimented by head turning.
The helmet restricts periphial vision.
If it rains there are no windscreen wipers.
Visors (and spectacles inside them mist up all too rapidly)
At night headlamps from oncoming traffic on a wet visor refracts all over the place.
So please make allowances.
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The bikers that I cannot understand are the guys who join the queue at traffic lights, roundabouts etc instead of going straight to the front.
It is often someone riding a sports bike, I wonder if it is a problem with low speed handling?
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"... I have no hesitation in exploiting the performance and manoeuvrability of my machine: that's what I bought it for. Deal with it."
er, actually you are the one who has to deal with it. Its others who have to deal with it when you DONT deal with it.
WTM
(passed bike test in 1978 & STILL frightened of kwaker triples)
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If every car driver had started life on our roads using two wheel transport for a period that included every type of weather conditions, they would almost certainly turn out to be very much better drivers when switching to four wheels.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Well I'm a biker and ride a Yamaha R6 just for the record. There are a lot of bikers on the road who seem to want to die judging by their riding style but I like to think that I am a fairly responsible and safe motorcyclist (compared to the other people who also ride sportsbikes).
I drive trucks for a living and my licence (and safety) is pretty important to me and hence I ride without taking unnecessary risks. I don't ride like a vicar but neither like a complete lunatic.
Anyway I went to Brands Hatch on the bank holiday monday just gone to watch the British Superbikes with a couple of mates and I tend to lead our group due to my road knowledge and experience. What I found was that whilst we were doing a constant 85mph around the top of the M25 we were the slowest bikes on the motorway. I think we only overtook two bikes all the way from Derbyshire to Kent, all the rest overtook us.
So you may think that this proves the theory that all bikers are maniac's. But I was also somewhat shocked to see a policeman overtake us at roughly 90-95mph on a black Yamaha R1. I am sure he wasn't on duty because of the bike he was riding and the fact that he had a pillion passenger also. So how did I know he was a copper? His police issue helmet with the chequered stripe and police issue yellow jacket kind of gave it away.
So what example does this set to the rest of us? If the presumably fully trained (off duty) police motorcyclist wants to blast round on his sportbike at up to 95mph why should everyone else not copy?
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It's only a small percentage of riders who behave like idiots, and those are the ones who get noticed by non bikers. I would agree with Chris R that the figure is higher than one per cent, but certainly no higher than the percentage of car drivers who behave in the same way. Probably a bit lower, as the consequences of getting it wrong are greater for a bike rider.
There is no such thing as a minor prang on a bike. Every accident hurts.
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I ride a BMW 1150. There is no excuse for dangerous driving but on the motorway on 2 wheels it is incredible how much space there is if you use all 3 lanes. So many car drivers sit in the the middle or outside lane blocking the traffic. I do use the inside lane and when safe overtake the traffic in lanes 2 and 3. I feel safer in the inside lane in any event as the hard shoulder is there if needed.
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