Despite the Japanese manufacturers holding the high ground in the reliability tables, it was interesting to read that Lex rated the top lowest depreciating cars after 3 years were all from German prestige marques.
Lowest being the Porsche Boxter 54% retained value
2. BMW Z4 52% "
3. BMW X3 52%
4. BMW MINI 52%
5. BMW X5 51%
6. BMW 3 Series 50%
7. Mercedes SLK 50%
8. BMW 1 Series 49%
9. Mercedes CLK 48%
Source Autocar 22 March 2005.
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Do they factor in the real cost of these cars to include the very high cost of speccing them up to a resonable level?
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Despite the Japanese manufacturers holding the high ground in the reliability tables, it was interesting to read that Lex rated the top lowest depreciating cars after 3 years were all from German prestige marques.
That's because depreciation is not linked to reliability. It is linked to desirability and availability. The majority of these cars (x3,x5,z4,1 series etc) are still out of the reach of many who aspire to them because they are relatively new vehicles.
There will be many more buyers than second-hand cars, hence low depreciation. A couple of the cars mentioned probably have more reliability issues than the market average, let alone the Japanese average.
Int the list there are 3 genuine "Classic cars" in the making.
Porsche Boxster - A superb example of a company going "back to your roots" without relying on nostalgia. Porsche dare not make a coupe version for £30000 - £35000 for fear of eating into 911 sales.
New SLK - Much prettier than the previous one. I suspect a good few will be in use in twenty years time.
BMW Mini - Absolutely committed owners and clubs.
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This is one of those things that comes up over and over again.
Depreciation is measured against 'list price'. I suspect most of the cars at the top of the Lex survey sell at (or very close to) list price. Most of the Japanese cars in the survey probably sell at a very substantial discount.
When I bought my wife's Primera about six years ago we paid only about 2/3 of list price - quite some discount!. Its not worth much now, but its depreciation against what I paid is not bad at all - but would look bad against 'list price'.
I suspect some of the cars mentioned would be genuine long-term low depreciators (like the Merc SLK) - I'm not so sure about some of the others though. The Mini is very much a fashion car and tastes can change quickly. The Z4 is also a bit doubtful IMHO - the Z3 was not a notably low depreciator once it had was a year or two past launch.
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The MINI's extremely low depreciation has taken a slight knock as substantial numbers are now available on the second hand market.
However, I hope that my MINI Cooper S will retain its value fairly well as it has established itself as a classic with a 45 year pedigree to boot. There is still nothing quite like a MINI on the road and although you can argue there are better ways to spend your money on a vehicle, it stands out from the crowd.
I am surprised that the Volvo XC90 wasn't mentioned as I thought it had the lowest depreciation of all: again, another car that has a unique appeal, in short supply new, with few competitors in its sector.
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"However, I hope that my MINI Cooper S will retain its value fairly well as it has established itself as a classic with a 45 year pedigree to boot. There is still nothing quite like a MINI on the road and although you can argue there are better ways to spend your money on a vehicle, it stands out from the crowd."
-- think that depreciation wise it should hold-up reasonably well but with the number of them flooding onto the used market it's not going to be as good as it has been - certainly wouldn't call them "stand out from the crowd" either, very common sight on the roads now !!
Have to agree that depreciation figures such as the ones by LEX are often very deceiving - as already said they are based on list price & don't reflect discounts that you negotiate.
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Certainly don't reflect discounts, and I still can't make my mind up on how they work the calculation out.
Seems that they take the retail price of each model and compare that with what they expect the actual car with extras on to make in three years time.
So a car that cost £33,000 (£30k list plus 3k extras) expected to sell at £15,000 therefore has a residual value of 50% (15k/30k).
A car that cost £33,000 (£40k list, no extras) expected to sell for £16,000 therefore has a residual value of 40% (16k/40k).
In their view car 1 is a lower depreciator than car 2, even though ot cost the same and you lost more. I can undertsand this being relevant for lease vehicles where the ultimate user often pays for extras rather than the lessor, but it seems to be a tad misleading!
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However, I hope that my MINI Cooper S will retain its value fairly well as it has established itself as a classic with a 45 year pedigree to boot. There is still nothing quite like a MINI on the road and although you can argue there are better ways to spend your money on a vehicle, it stands out from the crowd.
I've had to give prices on two Mini's recently and prices for both Cooper and Cooper S have started to fall - due to the fact they are an "accessory" car as soon as something new comes along and takes becomes the favourite prices slip dramatically - just look at the values of the new beetle.
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blue haddock said:
'as soon as something new comes along'
So which car do you see taking over Mini's position?
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What about a well specced Mini One D with all the important extras such as Pepper Pack and climate?
I'd love to know how that will fare as my brother has just bought one and from what we could gather, new availability is very restricted at the moment which should help keep prices up. Any Mini dealers got any info?
Blue
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What about a well specced Mini One D with all the important extras such as Pepper Pack and climate?
The problem here is that the all the extra's don't really add much value to the car - in fact glass's guide price for such cars usually includes things like climate control, metallic paint and TLC pack.
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He knew when he bought it, in fact the saleman even told him, that at least £1000 worth of his extras would add no value whatsoever to his car come trade in time. He was happy with this because he will be using the car for very long journeys and spending hours in it every week. For that reason he wanted some of the extras that don't add anything like visibility pack, multi-function wheel and sports seats, just purely for his own comfort.
Blue
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The Cooper S i've got coming in cost just under 20k when new thanks to all the extra's - one year on and i've paid 13k for it.
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don't think the "new beetle" is a good example to illustrate poor depreciation against the Mini, to be fair the Mini's a decent car the Beetle is just dreadful.
Did hear that production of the Mini is going to be increased, still think it will be a popular choice for a good few years yet, unfortunately that means your even less "stand out from the crowd". Anyone else noticed that the majority of people driving Mini's seem to be over 50 ??, not there's anything wrong with that - probably due to those stupid adverts.
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The problem here is that the all the extra's don't really add much value to the car - in fact glass's guide price for such cars usually includes things like climate control, metallic paint and TLC pack.
Really? I've just traded a 2-year old MINI Cooper in, cost me £13.5k which included optional extras such as the chili pack, aircon, cd, MFSW and TLC. The dealer has just offered me £11k for it in P/X. What other brand new car would give you this %RV back after 2/3 years?
I realise a lot of new MINI owners spend upwards of £4k customising their car but crikey just let them spend what they want. It's their hard earned cash. But if you do spec your car up sensibly, be it a MINI, BMW, Merc, VW, whatever, then you will get a decent price back when you come to change.
A couple of dealers (Audi/VW) actually told me that the TLC package adds the best part of £1000 to the P/X price. A similar premium also applies for the Chili pack which iirc cost me £1300.
It's also a good idea to ring round a few BMW dealers yourself to get the best price for your old car, because the amount stock and demand varies enormously. Arguably just as good as a P/X price.
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A couple of dealers (Audi/VW) actually told me that the TLC package adds the best part of £1000 to the P/X price. A similar premium also applies for the Chili pack which iirc cost me £1300.
I cannot see how a £150 option can add as much as a £1000 to the value of a car? Yes it is great value but it will not add that much value to the car
With regards to the chilli pack it is more likely they will reduce the PX value by £1000 if it hasn't got it rather than add it if it has.
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However, I hope that my MINI Cooper S will retain its value fairly well as it has established itself as a classic with a 45 year pedigree to boot.
45 year pedigree? Are you suggesting the Mini and the MINI have anything in common?
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only common denominator is "cute icon" - but when will there be a stretched version so that, like its amazing predecessor, the MINI can carry 4 adults?
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yes what 45 year pedigree is that, apart from shameless marketing?
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However, I hope that my MINI Cooper S will retain its value fairly well as it has established itself as a classic with a 45 year pedigree to boot.
The only thing the new MINI shares with the original is the name.
I am in no way implying any fault with the latest version; it is a decent enough car.
The original however simply revolutionised car design in terms of packaging, roadholding and handling.
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I have always said that there were certain cult cars that were the current in thing and would become passe whenthe next 'big thing' came out.
I think of all the women who luch who live near me. They go from Range Rovers to Beetles to Minis to Cayennes and they do not give a hoot about their actual requirements from a car. It's just the latest toy their husband buys them or is told to buy them to keep them sweet.
Next big thing - probably the Disco 3 but suspect there will be another German coming around soon. I am surprised its not the new SLK, but most drivers of that I see are men.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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