I need some advice about buying a 4 x 4 for my wife. I don't really need to know about the environmental aspects of the subject and no, it will almost certainly, never, actually go off-road.
We currently have a Vitara LWB. My wife likes it due, mainly to the visibility, side opening rear door, etc.
I have looked at the verdict on the Disovery and this would at first put me off buying one... but now the new type is out I'm guessing there will be plenty of the old type for sale soon and wonder if a second-hand model could be picked up with all the faults fixed and ironed out.
It must be an auto and I would prefer it to be diesel/LPG. The budget is 7-8 thousand, also I would expect to run it for about 5 years at 12 thousand miles per year. We have kids and all the in-car-junk and abuse that this involves so it wouldn't have to be perfect, the most important question is over the maintenace of it: I don't want to spend thousands keeping the thing on the road and if I can't get a good one without the hassle we can have something else, it doesn't have to be a discovery.
I see plenty of these about and I can't believe they are all a can of worms. How can I pick up a good one?
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Very hit and miss. Try and get a part-exd Disco traded out of a main delaer. Family member did this on a 77k N plate with a FLRSH, (an SE so plenty of scope for faliure !) it is now 120k up having hauled a caravan in the UK and few trips abroad - no offroading. Nothing big has gone wrong.
Drive one first especially a pre-ACE model as the drive can be a bit "disturbing" at car speeds to the unitiated. Very much a you pays your money.....Jap iron is more relialble (without doubt)but I personally don't like them.
Three reasons we got rid 1. SWMBO found it a handful in town - where she used it 2. Lot of capital plummeting in front of your house ! 3, Because it was a newish one (y-plate 3 yrs ago) I was reluctant to take it off-road where it spent a fair proportion of its weekends in fear of sctraching it. We sold it lost a wedge but funded my Defender with cash to spare for the other joys of life. SWMBO now has a MINI which she wouldn't be parted from....no not even for a new one !
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Not in tune on the prices, I'm afraid, M, but I suspect I won't be the first to suggest that your budget, your lifestyle and your expectations do not add up to a used Disco.
I had a month with a Td5 auto and while it's a decent enough old bus I didn't actually find it that practical as a family hack. Yes, you can chuck all sorts in the boot, but the short wheelbase (ex Range Rover series 1) chassis means rear seat room isn't that great (try winding the back windows down all the way and you'll see what compromises are at work here).
I think your budget and your requirements - esepcially your desire for a cost-effective, hassle-free life - dictate that you're looking at the likes of a five-door Toyora Rav-4, a Honda CR-V or a Nissan X-Trail.
There is a certain amount of Country Life kudos attached to the Disco, but you don't half pay for it.
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agree with Morris Ox. Life in the Country as opposed to Country Life contrast greatly in every respect.
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How about a used defender instead of the disco?
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bh What did you say about Great Minds - I avoided suggesting it !
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I'm starting to get the picture now. TBH what we need is a RAV 4 but "the back window is too small"...aparently...
I had thoughts of getting a good one and running it to destruction but unless I'm lucky that isn't going to happen.
A friend worked at a LR dealership a few years ago and was amazed at the faults that were coming up on nearly new ones. I think it could even be another late MK 1? Vitara we go for.
Thanks for the advice so far.
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The main complaint i get with the Rav4 is that the back door doesn't open to a full 90 degrees, never had any complaint's about the size of the back window.
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Don;t get a defender, they are aweful to drive any distance, uncomfortable seating position, window winder thats jams into your knee and is impossible to reach at any other time. Bumpy ride, only geared for about 80, so terrible fuel consumption on motorway.
Great if you want to put a sheep or some hay in the back, or tow something heavy, not good for anything else.
If your considering a Disco, why not a Range Rover, they are cheaper at the same age and I think much better. Good pose vallue to.
If your considering anything Land Rover, I would serious recommend a trip to Brightwells 4x4 auctions on a Tuesday. Literally hundreds of Disco's, Range Rovers, Defenders. Many from main Land Rover Agents.
Brightwells have a great website, listing previous prices and forthcoming catalogues, even the reserves on unsold lots! The cars are unlocked about five minutes before sale, giving you a chance to hop in them and check them out.
I bought my mother an R reg Range Rover 4.0 SE with a FSH, 40k on the clock for £8800 last June from Brightwells. The RR had been in London all its life and had been px'd to the dealership in the capital. Got back home and found the dealers website listed it at £14k!
James
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IMHO the only good thing about a Disco is that the driving position is quite comfortable.
They are archaic, unreliable and not that roomy for the exterior dimensions. I always find the brakes are a bit alarming too. A right pain to drive in town and slot into today's small parking spaces.
How about getting a decent sized estate (e.g. a 2000-on Mondeo)? Actually more room for junk and will be one heck of lot cheaper to run and probably safer too (less likely to roll over than a Disco and much better brakes).
Unless you tow or specifically need 4WD then I can't think of a reason for buying one of these contraptions.
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Are you not confusing the size and type of vehicle yuo have in mind with assuming it will automatically be a 4WD, and a feature you are unlikely to ever use and with a corresponding cost?
Wher I live we can buy a Nissan Patrol, a Ford Everest, Landcruiser, Isuzu Trooper etc all as a 4 X 2. You get the road presence, the size and the safety but without the unnecessary bits and of course a price saving. Is this not the case in UK?
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I think all UK spec Patrols, LCs, Troopers, Shoguns etc are all "proper" 4X4s not sure if they are available as 4X2 on the continent either.
You may be able to buy 4X2 only pickups but even then I think the majority are 4X4 (even if it's only selectable 4 wheel drive as opposed to permanent 4 wheel drive).
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Just one word - Toyota. If it's your own money and you want the thing to work without bits falling off then there's no real competition. Wish I could say that about Land-Rover.
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Marketing over common sense. HJ
Knowing the way the British mind works I suspect that 4x2 would not sell that well. There would be more 'street cred' attached to having a 4x4 as opposed to a 4x2 and therefore 4x2 owners would be looked down upon.
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The thing that strikes me here is that if you don't want 4WD and in't going off-road, then a vehicle designed for going over rough ground seems a strange choice. So I'm not sure that I see the point of a 4X2, unless you want either the higher driving position or the raised ground clearance.
The higher driving position is available in an MPV, which will usually handle better and be more refined as well as more fuel-efficient. A comparison of difft vehicles will show some marked differences in ground clearance (e.g. the old Volvo S40/V40 is noticeably low)
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Some good points from Aprilia (I suspect that image and street cred really do matter more in the UK than in most other western countries) and NoWheels.
I've never had a 4x4 - never even driven one. Never likely to buy one either. And yet something in me is attracted to them
1) I like a high driving position. (I drive an MPV now!)
2) Many cars do have rather poor ground clearance - in my years as a Fiesta driver, whether it was poor roads, farm tracks, or speed ramps, I often would have loved better ground clearance
3) If one lives in an isolated rural area, there may be times in snowy weather when 4 wheel drive may make it possible to get to one's destination when 2 wheel drive wouldn't
4) A lot of 4X4s are Japanese and come with good engines and excellent reliability.
I don't imagine I'll ever buy a CRV or RAV 4, but the thought still appeals.
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...yes, I see.Perhaps the 4 X 2's like the Expedition etc here
sell (a) because of road presence, (b) perceived safety and and (c) large families. I also forgot that anything with 8+ seats in it attracts a reduced rate of VAT.
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>>>There would be more 'street cred' attached to having a 4x4 as opposed to a 4x2 and therefore 4x2 owners would be looked down upon
But how would they know?
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IMHO the only good thing about a Disco is that the driving position is quite comfortable. They are archaic, unreliable and not that roomy for the exterior dimensions. I always find the brakes are a bit alarming too. A right pain to drive in town and slot into today's small parking spaces. How about getting a decent sized estate (e.g. a 2000-on Mondeo)? Actually more room for junk and will be one heck of lot cheaper to run and probably safer too (less likely to roll over than a Disco and much better brakes). Unless you tow or specifically need 4WD then I can't think of a reason for buying one of these contraptions.
This makes the most sense; if it were down to me, we/she would have a high milage (and cheap) MK 2 Mondeo V6 Ghia auto estate and like it.
There are a couple of probs with this:(1) She won't drive it and (2) She won't drive it.
I think that most 4 x 4 owners get them for status, the visibilty and the percieved 'safety factor'.
The Mondeo would make perfect sense and it grieves me that this will never happen. In fact I knew it would never happen once I suggested it.
I should have started the sentence with: I expressly forbid you to, under any circumstances, get a MK 2 Mondeo V6 Ghia auto estate...
We'd have had one by now.
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This makes the most sense; if it were down to me, we/she would have a high milage (and cheap) MK 2 Mondeo V6 Ghia auto estate and like it. There are a couple of probs with this:(1) She won't drive it and (2) She won't drive it.
How about persuading her to test drive an automatic MPV? (Ford Galaxy? Renault Espace?)
But go about it sensibly. Do some research, then tell her there's no way you're taking her near one ...
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Dear Mudguts,
Forgive me for asking, but do you and Mrs. MG have the same waist size? Cos it seems to me that she has nicked your trousers. Go get 'em back, put 'em on and keep 'em on. You are so right about the vehicle choice............and she is being a woman!
No. I haven't let the Ayatollah at Homei see this post!
VBR.........M.
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I would buy her a transit van and tell her to like it or lump it.
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Honda CRV?
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Honda CRV?
Have only ever been a passenger in one, but seemed quite unrefined.
VBR.....M
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We have owned a Discovery for 3.5 years, and work it hard towing a Horsebox.
I would never recommend a Disco to someone who did not need either the off-road ability or the 3.5 tonne towing capacity.
Discos are slow (especially the Auto), thirsty, unrefined and a pain to drive on road. Most 'real' 4x4s share these characteristics. Our Disco has been very reliable considering its hard life, but the evidence suggests that we have been fortunate to get a good one.
If i may make a suggestion, what you need is a 'soft-roader' such as the RAV-4, X-trail or CRV. All are excellent. All will suit your needs much beter than a Disco and be much nicer to drive on-road. I cannot recommend the Freelander - far too many reliability horror stories.
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Good post, bradgate!
The Disco auto's make a milk float seem fast - they're slow to the point of being dangerous.
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At this sort of money the biggest bang for your buck is going to come from a Japanese import.
There are plenty around and 7-8k should give you a nice big Pajero (Shogun) which will drive better, have more kit and be far more reliable than any Discovery for the money.
The import cars are loaded with kit and are nearly all automatics. The condition of these vehicles is nearly always superb as they will not have been off-road.
Alternatively I would suggest a Mitsubishi Delicia, Shogun chassis with an MPV body or a Toyota Estima. 8k should get you the latest Previa shaped ones. These give a great driving position with enormous amounts of space and good performance and economy from the D4D engine.
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Why thank you kind sir!
I'm not completely slating Discos - we bought one after all. If you can find a good one they do make excellent workhorses, and off-road they are of course brilliant.
I just can't understand why people who don't have a job that needs a 'real' 4x4 buy the things as normal family cars when they could get something far more suitable for less dosh.
*shrugs*
Image, I suppose.
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Freelander? Later TD4's are nice.
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Thanks for the advice so far...
My trouble and strife has pointed out that the rear window on a RAV 4 is a problem due to the size of her, not it, (she is not tall). This is also the cause of prejudice against the Mondeo.
I think the best thing is a visit to a good 4 x 4 centre and a sit in every type there. I have thought of the Transit idea and going to a "Vans and Commercial Specialist" instead but there's no way she'll buy it (or one).
The Pajero / Shogun could be a possibility. There's only one drawback in my view: With the two black and white horses we keep on our front lawn, people may think we are gipsies / travellers. Especially if we get a red one ;) I still think they are a good buy and they always look a bit more stable when I see them, compared to a Range Rover, for example.
I take the point about the need for a 4 x 4 and to be honest there is no need. A 4 x 2 makes sense, after all my Mondeo doesn't exactly have any problems wherever we go; even in the snow last year, driving home listening to BBC local radio bleating about "snow chains" etc. I wondered what all the fuss was about.
I'll keep you informed, sorry about the long but single post but I'm only allowed one a day. Oh and she's paying.
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As the Range Rover is about the same price as a similar age Defender and cheaper than a similar Disco, i'd have to recommend it.
Driving (on the few occasions she lets me) my mothers is a pleasure. Loads of toys, nice seats, good visability (easy to park if you can find a space big enough).
Handling isn;t bad, there's a bit of body roll - but then it isnit a car. Lets say you'll run out of confidence long before it runs out of grip.
You wouldn't want to rag it anyway - there's a trip telling you average mpg!
Second Hand for £9k it was a bargain. But new at £45k it was a rip off.
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Speed was never an issue with the TD5 we owned. Handling wasn't thanks to that ACE thing, although it nearly let go one night on a roundabout when being driven car style (plenty of warning though) economy was around 30 mpg. Would cruise happily at around 70 - 80 mph. One learnt to read the road ahead by the way.
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How about the older square-shaped Jeep Cherokee? Great with the 4 litre engine and very comfy but not a huge amount of room. Handles well for a 4x4, maybe due to the fairly squat, wide stance.
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If you really must have a 4x4 then I would go for a Jap import with all the bells and whistles. There is a chap on here 'T Lucas' who sells them I think - may know a bit more.
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The only things against toyota and mitsubishi 4x4 are the costs of servicing and spare parts,2.5diesel mitsi is very poor performance and the 2.8 is lower mpg than discovery but is good comfortable workhorse,the late series 1 discos were ok ,or at least the one I had was a good one .parts for discos are cheap and readily available.good td5 discos are still above your stated price. the ace models are very stable and worth looking for if you do want to buy one
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As an owner of a Disco, I am at odds with a lot of opinions here.
The TDi is not great for fuel economy for a diesel, but is the preferred choice out of all the engine choices. I get around 30mpg out of mine on a good run.
The drive - you either love it or hate it. What is important is that you drive it like you would a small truck, especially when you first get it. IMO it makes you think about the road ahead more and plan you manovers earlier.
The features it has are OK. I would probably go for a later Mk1 with ABS next time. The 300TDi engines are more refined but not necessarily better than the 200TDi.
As someone has already said, the spares availability is good, especially as the Range Rover Classics share a lot of the same running gear.
Whether you need a 4wd or not - well I can't comment on that one. I bought this one as I have never owned a 4wd before and also wanted a good towing capacity. Since then I have become more interested in green laning and I felt the price was right at the time.
To be fair, I guess you either want the 4wd or you don't. If you do, or your wife does, then that is a choice, which is yours or your wife's to make. Once the decision is taken then have a good look at all the cars that fit that slot.
I personally would not go for the 4wd lookalikes at slightly less money than the real thing. Far better to go for the mini mpv or similar.
Good luck!
Hugo
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