I noticed this myself when I owned a Morris Oxford Series 6.
The Morris was narrower by quite a few inches, such that it made a standard eggbox house garage more useable.
The Fiat Regata that I had at the same time (similar class car but one was a rust bucket and the other was a classic!) was about 5 to 6 inches wider but about 6 inches shorter.
Parking the Regata in the garage meant I had to park the NS very close to the garage wall to stand any hope of being able to climb out of the driver's door, whereas just taking a sensible approach with the Morris was good enough.
H
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Hugo. there is a vast difference in contruction between cars built in 60`s early 70`s. most is the fact higher guage metal was used to produce chassis/body work. As we all expect safety as being high priority. I see no reason why we cannot expect to see cars getting bigger. Due to expected Lightning off bodyweight. as has been occuring for some time. safety is called into question. You cannot expect a new car to withstand a crash.Using new guage material. I think original post was wrong.. in the respect the lighter the body becomes other safety points need to be employed/ which will employ larger body to encorporate.
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Steve
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I'm sure that there is an element of the feeling that the bigger the car I drive, the less vulnerable I am and therefore the less safe I need to be.
This theory can be tested by watching the large luxury barges and 4X4's carving up everything in site and generally being driven as though they own the road.
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I've thought for some time that some manufacturers seem to be making models bigger and bigger, and then introducing a new "super mini" model at the bottom.
e.g. Golf, Polo, Lupo. Or original 3-series BMW, new 3-series, new 1-series.
-Mark
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If the Focus is too big for you, buy a Fiesta...what could be simpler?.
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I've thought for some time that some manufacturers seem to be making models bigger and bigger
... and at the same time dropping bigger models.
When the Cortina came out in the 60s, Ford had at least two bigger models, but now its replacement Mondeo is Ford's biggest saloon.
Similarly, new Vauxhall Vectra is as big as Carlton was 20 years ago
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It is an unfortunate automotive truth that development activity nearly always adds cost and weight.
Weight is the biggest enemy. If you add more weight to the body of the car, you need more engine to drive it, beefier suspension to control it, and bigger brakes to stop it. It is a truly vicious cycle.
In the rare events when weight is removed, it becomes a virtuous circle - weight may then be trimmed elsewhere.
number_cruncher
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Similarly, new Vauxhall Vectra is as big as Carlton was 20 years ago
::Start of Pedant mode::
The Carlton didn't start production until 1986.
::End of Pedant mode::
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There is a simple answer. If a car is too wide for a parking bay give it a ticket with no exceptions. People do not need oversize vehicles and they know they cannot be legaly parked before they buy them.If it is allowed to continue unchecked roads will become impassable to cars let alone fire engines ambulances and delivery vans etc.
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People do not need oversize vehicles
How do you know whether people need oversized vehicles or not?
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Maybe it's a consequence of more economical engines (particularly with the popularity of diesels) and more aerodymnamic body shapes. Now you can make a bigger, heavier car and it's still economical. Also wheels have got bigger in recent years, so you might need a wider body in order to accomodate steering movement on full-lock, especially on transverse engine front drive cars, like most are.
As for high driving positions, Personally I find being higher up makes driving easier and more pleasant, although my current cars are both 'normal' height. This preference probably explains some of the popularity of MPVs and 4x4s.
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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How do you know whether people need oversized vehicles or not?
by measuring their consumption of pies?
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::Start of Pedant mode:: The Carlton didn't start production until 1986. ::End of Pedant mode::
Please forgive the excessive pedantry, but...
I think that is true of the more rounded shape of Carlton, but I think there were some earlier models, some of which had the four cylinder cam in head engine.
I think these earlier models were made from about 1980 onwards, but my memory can't be more precise.
number_cruncher
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Pretty sure I drove my fathers 2litre Carlton to Uni at the start of term in October 1984.
StarGazer
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Pedant or not, you're that most common of characteristics - wrong !
Try Haynes Manual Ref: 1 85960 1537 Vauxhall Carlton Oct.1978 - Oct.1986
Your apology accepted.
Da-ave was wro-ong. nyah nyah na na nyah.
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Also try:
www.carsource.co.uk/model-summary?ID=null&model_id...0
Vauxhall Carlton: Nov 1982-Apr 1994 when replaced by Omega
It was the boxy Mk1 Carlton 2.0 CD that I drove back then, first auto and first brand new car I ever had to drive.
StarGazer
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Also try: www.carsource.co.uk/model-summary?ID=null&model_id...0 Vauxhall Carlton: Nov 1982-Apr 1994 when replaced by Omega It was the boxy Mk1 Carlton 2.0 CD that I drove back then, first auto and first brand new car I ever had to drive.
The first model Carlton was produced in 1979. I bought one of the first to be produced, with the "driver's pack." It had a cam in head engine and was very low tech. However, it was a very reliable motor car and I kept it for four years without any problems at all. At 60,000 miles it still had the original tyres and rear drum shoes. It had two sets of front pads and an exhaust system replaced.
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Da-ave was wro-ong. nyah nyah na na nyah.
::Sulk::
Gees, everyone's entitled to an off day now and again.
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"::End of Pedant mode::"
I didn't know you had one of those, Dave.
V
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In reply to Dynamic Dave, if people need an oversize vehicle then they also need to pay for an oversize off street parking space to go with it.
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Very good idea Alan - because people who need oversize vehicles never have to park anywhere apart from outside their house (they just drive from their house, round in a big circle without stopping, and back home again).
-Mark
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Very good idea Alan - because people who need oversize vehicles never have to park anywhere apart from outside their house (they just drive from their house, round in a big circle without stopping, and back home again).
I'd wondered why people wanted these big machines (most of which are nearly empty most of the time) when they'd be so difficult to park, and a smaller car would do the job better.
So, thanks for the explanation: it all makes sense now. Obviously parking wasn't a part of their buying decision.
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"I'd wondered why people wanted these big machines"
To wind you up, surely.
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If cars are being built wider then surely there's not a great deal we can do...other than buy them.
I drive a saloon when a 3 door hatch would do fine...although I am 6ft5. I drive a saloon to:
a) actually have some space when I need it and
b) have a debating point with NW when speeding news is thin on the ground.
The only time space would come into my head (apart from the usual vacuum that's inbetween my ears) is getting the car in the garage. I mean, come on. Let's say someone hands me 60 grand. I'd be down at the Audi dealers putting a deposit down on an A8 quicker than you could say "Polo". I'm not going to say
"Sorry - can't buy this - there's a chance that I may come across a parking space that's too narrow for the car"
Needless to say, when I'm driving my family around, if I had an accident (which I don't want obviously) I'd rather be in my current car than in my old N reg Fiesta. I'm guessing cars are wider to house all the airbags, pretensioners, crumple zones etc.
Discuss.
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Adam
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Adski
Couldn't agree more. It really gets my goat when people go on about unnecessary ownership of bigger vehicles, not to mention 4 x 4s.
No disrespect but I have read sooo many ill informed and obviously completely unresearched postings on the matter from BR members who otherwise have my full respect.
I have successfully NOT taken the bait till now but this is the last straw!
I drive a 4 x 4 because:
Like Adski I am tall, not quite 6ft 5inches but 6ft 4inches. In addition my oldest is now close to 5 ft 4 inches - she is 12 in December and on th 97th percentile. My other daughter who has just turned 10 is following the 70th percentile and is also tall for her age.
We looked at all sorts of cars a few years ago and found that MPVs and 4 x 4s were the only vehicles that suited us from a space and safety point of view. As MPVs were overpriced for what they were we decided to go for a 4 x 4 and boy am I glad we did. It's a simple fact that in rural areas risks of localised flooding and poor road surface during the winder months has to be taken into account. In addition the Land Rover doubles as a very good towing vehicle. It can manage up to 4 tonnes braked.
So please stop condeming people who drive larger vehicles as selfish, inconsiderate etc. I say to people with an IQ in double figurs, this - You try my lifestyle and then see how unnecessary a bigger vehicle is.
H
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Hugo.I for one have nothing against anyone having a large motor..For reasons that you stated.Some need these motors for whatever reason. I think point that was raised. Was that some buy them as a status symbol..And are never used for purpose vehicle was contructed for. I do see your point. Also see other points..One comment made was some are not able to steer in to parking space properly..I dont see that as running down a 4x4 or whatever. purley stating the fact driver wasnt able to control vehicle size. Though I noticed other comments detrimental to large vehicles.Tend to take with pinch of salt.Ie just something to say..Nothing really to get worked up about
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Steve
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Hugo and Steve,
absolutely spot on. If you need a bigger car then buy what you want. Even if you don't want a bigger car, buy what you want. Your life - your money - your car. Yes people will criticize me for for being irresponsible and eating up the valuable resources of the country but I look at it this way. 99% of people could drive a 1.0 car. With the exception of those who need to tow, 1.0 would get you where you want to be. Who's going to do that though? Not me.
Why should anyone care if you have a Ford Fiesta or a Ford Explorer?
Also agree with Steve - nothing to get worked up over which is what I appear to be doing now.
NW - the Hummer is on order but I could only get it in yellow with the V12 lump in it. 3mpg - BARGAIN!
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Adam
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b) have a debating point with NW when speeding news is thin on the ground.
If you changed it for a Hummer or a Porch we could have even more fun arguing :)
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I don't need a Landcruiser.
I've got one.
I frequently drive it in central London and often take my daughter to school in it.
Nyaah, nyaah, nyaah.
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>If you changed it for a Hummer or a Porch we could have even
>more fun arguing :)
We used to hang feeders out on the porch for hummers when we lived in Texas. They love strong sugar solution. ;-)
Kevin...
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>> Very good idea Alan - because people who need oversize vehicles >> never have to park anywhere apart from outside their house (they >> just drive from their house, round in a big circle without >> stopping, and back home again). I'd wondered why people wanted these big machines (most of which are nearly empty most of the time) when they'd be so difficult to park, and a smaller car would do the job better. So, thanks for the explanation: it all makes sense now. Obviously parking wasn't a part of their buying decision.
Oh Christ on a bike, will you never stop your incessant warbling about how the world would be so much better if we all crammed into a Micra and hired bigger cars when we need them? Where the hell are all these bigger cars going to come from if they aren't being purchased by the public or the fleets? I use all the seats and the majority of the boot in my car every weekend and frequently have to add a roofbox. During the week I'm travelling the length and breadth of the country for work with a full boot and frequently with the back seats down if I take my pushbike for short commutes. If someone told me I had to use a supermini for these journeys I'd ring Mrs ND and ask her to start digging a hole for the body I was about to bring home. Why should I be condemned to one of those pitifully inadequate* vehicles because you can't accept that others have different needs to you?
Find another soapbox NoWheels. And the same goes for Alan.
(*inadequate for my needs. I couldn't give a flying fig for what you find adequate for yours. If a small car suits you then fine, just don't expect me to rush out and buy one in sympathy.)
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"Go for the Touran. You simply can't justify that hulking great pile of metal for two tiny people and two adults. If it's so important that SWMBO takes the kitchen sink, fridge, microwave and worktops on holiday then hire a Sharan or a roofbox for the fortnight. If you go for the former, you'll have to explain that the holiday won't be so lavish due to all the fuel costs....."
Taken from thread "Touran, Espace, Galaxy or 807???. Post from ND 20 September 11:52
Consistency is the name of the game isn't it? :-)
I'm only stirring, having been away for a few days then down the pub...probably for rather too long... :-)
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>> Obviously parking wasn't a part of their buying decision
>>Oh Christ on a bike, will you never stop your incessant warbling
In the picturebook I had as a kid, the man from Gallilee wore sandals, which aren't advisable on a bike. But the Gallilee is a gorgeous place to drive in, esp in March/April when it's covered in flowers.
NoDosh, I suggest you take a ddep breath and re-read my comment. It was in response to a bit of irony without a smiley, so I replied equally ironically, also w/o a smiley. Do you really think anyone believes that folks just drive around in circles all day?
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Its your own fault. If you didn't bang on about it so much you wouldn't be misunderstood on the odd occasion when you're not.
Anyway, MfG didn't have a bicycle, he had a Triumph.
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Anyway, MfG didn't have a bicycle, he had a Triumph.
A Herald, presumably?
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>> >> Obviously parking wasn't a part of their buying decision >> >> Oh Christ on a bike, will you never stop your incessant warbling In the picturebook I had as a kid, the man from Gallilee wore sandals, which aren't advisable on a bike. But the Gallilee is a gorgeous place to drive in, esp in March/April when it's covered in flowers.
Even more spectacular on a bike.
NoDosh, I suggest you take a ddep breath and re-read my comment. It was in response to a bit of irony without a smiley, so I replied equally ironically, also w/o a smiley. Do you really think anyone believes that folks just drive around in circles all day?
I long since gave up trying to establish what you believe. Your use of smilies is akin to the term "No offence" when employed immediately after some overtly cutting and offensive remark. They have no meaning.
No Dosh - Backroom Moderator
mailto:moderators@honestjohn.co.uk
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