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The 5th Gear Thread - SjB {P}
Next monday night.
5th gear.

Jenson\'s F1 BAR, a bike (no idea what), and a formula 1 powerboat.

Which will win?

I have no idea, beyond predicting the bike to initially beat the car, which will then start to reel it in (but is 1/4 mile too short to make any difference?), and that the powerboat is probably a pretty good dark horse.

{subject header amended}
Standing quarter mile - Happy Blue!
See Car from a few months ago. Compared a Merc CL55 AMG against a ariel Rocket with Honda Vtec.

Initially the Rocket went ahead, but aerodynamics got he Merc to be about 20 metres ahead when it hit the 1/4 mile.

Can someone please tell me the relevence of the 0-60mph time in car specs and magazines. IMHO it has no relevance at all to any driving that I do.

I would far rather have a 40-70 time for motorway slip roads and A-roads, a 60-80 for overtaking on the motorway and perhaps a 10-30 when finding that little gap in stop start traffic. But 0-60 for what???
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
Standing quarter mile - Robin Reliant
Espada,

I agree with you on the 0-60 time being meaningless in the real world. The figures you suggested would be of much more use.
I also believe that in achieving those 0-60 times many cars have their transmissions destroyed in the process, making the figures no use outside of bar room boasting.

Standing quarter mile - martint123
Someone did similar on TV a year ago(ish) - just car and bike. Bloke on bike complained he had terrible trouble launching the bike as he couldn't hear the engines revs due to the noise from the car.

Standing quarter mile - SjB {P}
I agree, Espada, especially as 0-60 is much more about technique than applies to any rolling speed increase. (As a case in point, and as documented in the HJ archives, my V70 2.4T totally annihilated a Audi TT 225 in a traffic light grand prix. To really rub it in to Mr Cool Dude and his mate, I was five up, with two pensioners included in the headcount!)

When I am choosing a new car and get to the page regarding performance, I am most interested in 30-70 through the gears and 50-70 in top gear.
Standing quarter mile - SjB {P}
So, the result was...

The F1 powerboat had a flat out, flying start, at which point the Honda Fireblade race bike and Button's BAR made a standing start. The boat still came a distant last, over four seconds behind the winner.

The bike and car were even for the first 100 metres, with Tony Rutter on the former trying hard to keep the front wheel down, and Buttons trying hard not to spin all his power away with traction control turned off. From 100 metres and beyond though, the F1 car was in a league of its own. Just awesome, especially when seen from above. It sprinted away from the bike, to win by two seconds or so in a run that took nine point something! The boat, from a flying start, took a consistent thirteen and a half seconds (Best of three runs).

Now we know that the whole thing was a Honda stunt, as they manufacture the motors for all three. Where was the diesel, then? (He writes with "Hate something," ringing in his head. Aaargh!)
Standing quarter mile - SjB {P}
... Can\'t believe I wrote Tony Rutter, when I know very well that it was his son Michael! Duh. Maybe I just showed my age! Anyway ...

For those interested, more info here: tinyurl.com/4g4rf


5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Dynamic Dave

New series starts tonight.
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Roger Jones
. . . and how nice to see a Capri exactly like mine given recognition and appreciation, even if it was from VBH (I still can't see what others see in her).
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Stuartli
>>I still can't see what others see in her>>

You poor soul...:-)

See: www.vb-h.net/ and www.f4group.co.uk/month_06_2004.htm

Vicki's also pretty hot in cars and on motorcycles - driving skills wise I mean.
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What's for you won't pass you by
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - patently
Vicki's also pretty hot in cars and on motorcycles - driving
skills wise I mean.


Stuart - don't you mean "and driving skills wise"?
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - NowWheels
>> Vicki's also pretty hot in cars and on motorcycles -
driving
>> skills wise I mean.
Stuart - don't you mean "and driving skills wise"?


I take it that Mrs Patently doesn't read the backroom? ;-)
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Stuartli
>>don't you mean "and driving skills wise"?>>

The second word in my comment was "also"...

Not that I speak from personal experience - more's the pity...:-(
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What's for you won't pass you by
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - dilbert
What strikes me is that of the three machines tested, the bike is the one that is not dissimilar to something that any one of us could purchase (and ride) for less than the cost of a modest hatchback. The F1 car and the powerboat are things that most of us will never have the opportunity to experience.
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - tr7v8
The whole point is that the powerboat WASN'T a F1 powerboat, the whole thing was all Honda and the pb races in the 225BHP class of the Honda championship. Standard hulls all with Honda Outboards. Quite cheap by boat race standards at around £50K
F1 pb are much bigger & much faster & typically run 3500 HP & do 100MPH plus. Other option would have been US Drag boat 5000BHP Gas turbine 200MPH + that would have made it more equivalent.....

Jim
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - SjB {P}
I must admit, tr7v8, that this surprised me too.

When the prog was previewed, and an "F1 powerboat" was mentioned, I expected something like "Victory" replete with umpteen zillion horsepower from a brace of howling V12 Lambos, and driver plus thottle jockey. This is why I thought the powerboat to be a dark horse, with a good chance of doing well.

Still made casually interesting TV, though. If anything, it highlighted even more how quickly a superbike or F1 car can accelerate, given that in only a short run, they beat another vehicle with the advantage of a flat out start.
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - JAJ
Think they could have made it more interesting by putting some regular cars and bikes on the grid as well; so we could really compare the metal we can buy with the more exotic stuff.

If we're sticking with Honda, would have liked to have seen a CBR600 (not a 'blade as CBR more affordable), an S2000, a Civic VTEC, a new 'changed' Accord diesel and maybe throw in a CRV for fun !

VBH driving any one of them as well.
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Mark (RLBS)
Didn't Clarkson do something similar once with a Golf GTI, Porsche 911 & a Formula 1 car ?
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - jc33
Think they could have made it more interesting by putting some regular cars and bikes on the grid as well; so we could really compare the metal we can buy with the more exotic stuff.>>


Yeah, I would have loved to have seen an Austin Maestro on the starting grid - and just to make sure it wasn't completely disgraced...some tubby bloke running as well.
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Sprice
Seem to remember reading in the BR archives, that backroomers thought Penny Mallory was hotter than VBH??? No way, VBH is the reason to watch 5th gear!
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - frostbite
I just wish I could get more than a very noisy picture and no sound on C5 - even with a signal amplifier (horrible things).
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Imagos
London City Airport is used in daylight hours 7 days a week so how did they find time to use the runway? Probably a days filming all in all.

Answers on a postcard..
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - richy
Looking at the weather they might have been able to do it on a nice sunday morning in the summer.
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - rcspeirs
The airport licence does not permit any flights over a 24 hour period each week, it's usually closed from 1300 Sat to 1300 Sun. So they could have filmed in that period. The fact that no planes were in sight would suggest that too.
Kind of ironic though - the purpose of the 24 hour curfew is to give the local residents a bit of peace and quiet. Which I don't expect they got with the F1 car belting up and down the runway.
I only live a couple of miles away - wish I'd know when they were filming it - would have been fun to spectate.
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Stuartli
>>..wish I could get more than a very noisy picture and no sound on C5>>

Can you get Freeview? If so, a £50 to £60 Freeview set top box will provide an excellent C5 picture and sound.

Plus lots of other TV stations and digital radio outlets....:-)
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What's for you won't pass you by
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - frostbite
"Can you get Freeview?"

Ah, that's the question. If I could borrow a box and find out it might then be worth splashing out.
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - patently
Ah, that's the question. If I could borrow a box and
find out it might then be worth splashing out.


If you're in South Bucks, don't bother. No signal. Roll on 200x when they switch the terrestrial signal off.
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Mark (RLBS)
2012
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - patently
2012


OK, 20xx then. And some people call ME pedantic!

;-)
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Dynamic Dave
And some people call ME pedantic!


I thought your name was patently?
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Mark (RLBS)
That's why only some people call him pedantic rather than everybody.
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - patently
That's why only some people call him pedantic rather than everybody.


Actually, many know me by means other than this forum, so call me pedantic immediately, hence in fact a mojority do so rather than just "some"...

Oh.

Ooops.
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - frostbite
That's the end of that idea - just fed my postcode into the Freeview website to be told 'hard cheese matey', or summat like that.

If it doesn't cover my crowded corner of SE Essex, what does it do?
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Welliesorter
That's the end of that idea - just fed my postcode
into the Freeview website to be told 'hard cheese matey', or
summat like that.


I don't have a lot of confidence in it. I've tried various postcodes in the checker including my own. It used to say service wasn't available in my area, but it did for an adjoining postcode. The one that gave a positive result was for house numbers directly opposite on a not particularly wide road.

It might be worth finding out the postcode for other houses nearby, and entering one of those, in case you've encountered a similar bug.
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Stuartli
>>Ah, that's the question>>

Go to www.freeview.co.uk and key in your postcode to check.

Since the BBC, Sky and Castle Communications took over the system stronger signals are now being transmitted.

Under ON/ITVDigital control my best mate, who runs an independent audio/visual/appliances outlet, discovered that sometimes houses on some stretches of a particular road could get signals, yet those a few yards away couldn't...:-)

You'll also need a wideband TV aerial.


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5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Mark (RLBS)
>>Castle Communications

That would be Crown Castle.

5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - patently
That would be Crown Castle.


pedant


;-)
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Altea Ego
Make that "correct bands aerial"
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Stuartli
>>Make that "correct bands aerial">>

Are you referring to a wideband aerial? Many people need one to receive certain channels on Freeview.

Just as a point of interest, I recently bought a Twinhan VisionPlus Digital-T PC TV card which is both cheaper and, as far as I can ascertain, superior to the Hauppauge version. Pictures and sound are first class and, when HDTV is available, it is already equipped to deliver it.

Cost was just over £50 from www.vadim.co.uk including delivery:

tinyurl.com/6s82u

There's also a USB version, plus satellite alternatives.
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5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Galaxy
Frostbite and Others,

For anyone who wishes to check the availability of Freeview in their area go to:

www.dtg.org.uk/retailer/coverage.html

You will find the information which this site gives you to be far more informative that the usual one:

www.freeview.co.uk

The DTG site will actually tell you which of the multiplexes you can reasonably expect to receive, even if it isn't all of them. For example, you may well be able to receive 5 out of 6 multiplexes at your address, which, in practice, would give you about 25 extra channels. In simple terms a multiplex is a single frequency which carries the information contained in several different channels.

However, if you go to the "Freeview" site, unless absolutely every multiplex can be received, you will just get the answer "Sorry", which isn't terribly helpful, is it?!

The DTG site also lists actual channels and the transmitter sites that they are coming from.

Galaxy

5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - Chezz55
. . . and how nice to see a Capri exactly
like mine given recognition and appreciation, even if it was from
VBH (I still can't see what others see in her).


I agree with Uncle Roger Jones about VBH. VBH is nice but nowhere near the gorgeous Lee McKenzie who used to be on Sunday afternoons.
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - CM
nice to see that Formula 1 is making such efforts in the fuel economy stakes. 235 l/100km I think works out at about 1.209mpg. At least the bike does about 30mpg

(being a friday my sums may be wrong)
5th Gear - on in 23 minutes. - CM
think that the figures were wrong

325 litres = 100 km
71.5 gallons = 62.5 miles = 0.874 mpg
5th Gear 19/10 - Imagos
So whose the unlucky pink fluffy dice who gets to buy the SLR thrashed to bits by Tiff?

No wonder it's got German plates the buyer won't see the program.

If you want the Capri the answers 'A' fot italian island. Obvious really..
5th Gear 19/10 - SjB {P}
As posted here some months ago, I had the motoring experience of my life with the silver SLR that the programme item started with and as also shown on Top Gear, and given the dosh, I'd happily buy it Tiff thrashed and second hand! Superb engineering, as it ought to be for over £300k. Think it sounded good on the telly? Imagine how it sounded for real. Totally awesome. Even pressing the starter and settling into a bass rumble idle without touching the throttle got the neighbour's curtains twitching. Now imagine an oped road and factor in the supercharger howl... I normally get my aural kicks in a motoring sense from stratospheric RPM four stroke, four cylinder, motorcycle engines (sorry Growler, none of that potato-potato malarky! ;-), but this made anything else sound totally inadequate. The dynamics weren't bad, either!
5th Gear 19/10 - Dynamic Dave
So whose the unlucky pink fluffy dice who gets to buy
the SLR thrashed to bits by Tiff?


How do you thrash a car with a rev limiter?
5th Gear 19/10 - mfarrow
How do you thrash a car with a rev limiter?


Take it down a steep hill?
5th Gear 19/10 - Puppetland
Anyone else hear Tiff's put down regarding the BBC Top Gear show?

He said: "stig that in your pipe and smoke it!"

5th Gear 19/10 - BobbyG
Yeah thought it was my imagination!

Also when he switched off the traction control thingy and then went on to criticise the handling!!

Mmmm wonder why?
5th Gear 19/10 - patently
How about Tiff's comment last year, reviewing a car with 6 gears:

"Tog gear is a bit slow and unresponsive, but drop into fifth gear and things get more exciting"
5th Gear 19/10 - PW
How about Tiff's comment last year, reviewing a car with 6
gears:
"Tog gear is a bit slow and unresponsive, but drop into
fifth gear and things get more exciting"


Ironic really as the program seems to be trying to emulate how Top Gear used to be in the mid to late 80s.

5th Gear 19/10 - Sofa Spud
I'd like to see a re-match, only with the car and bike in water and the power boat on dry land.

Cheers, Sofa Spud
5th Gear (TV) MPG Challenge - Ben79
Has anybody ever got remotely close to the the pathetic consumption reported by 5th Gear tonight?

Having driven a C3 1.4 HDI enthusiastically for a hundred miles, I got more like 55mpg.

I have never managed to get less than 40mpg out of my C5 2.0 HDI, even with short journeys and full throttle when safe.

Were the 5th Gear cars run-in properly?

Has anybody else managed to get almost half the official combined fuel consumption?
5th Gear (TV) MPG Challenge - Altea Ego
Jeez yes its really easy to chop the official figures by a third or more.


I could get 56mpg out of mine or probably down to 35mpg if I tried.
5th Gear (TV) MPG Challenge - CG
Judging by the way they were being driven for some of the filming then, yes, figures probably correct - but I bet the manufacturers were a bit unhappy about the results! Not, I think, a reasonable reflection of the average owner's driving technique..........

CG
5th Gear (TV) MPG Challenge - daveyjp
The Citroen figure did seem low - my dad has a Fiesta with the same engine and gets almost 50 teaching people to drive. The Prius figure came as no surprise. Every review I've read comments on the low mpg with 30-35 being the norm and I met someone from Sweden who had one and his experience was similar.
5th Gear (TV) MPG Challenge - Dynamic Dave
The Citroen figure did seem low - my dad has a
Fiesta with the same engine and gets almost 50 teaching people
to drive.


But are the pupils driving it the same way Jason Plato was?
5th Gear (TV) MPG Challenge - NowWheels
But are the pupils driving it the same way Jason Plato was?


Reminds me of a (male) friend who used to hire cars quite regularly, when his own bangers were off the road. One weekend he gave me a lift in type of a car I hadn't been in before, and I asked him if he liked it.

"It's rubbish," he said. "Complete junk."

"Umm, why?"

"Couldn't even get it to go over 100 on the A-roads last-nights".

I was rather relieved he was only driving me to Sainsbury's.

5th Gear Bike vs Car part 2 - martint123
No mention of the bike beating the Lamborghini Gallardo round the track. I thought it would go the other way with the grip of four wheels braking and turning, but no, the bike had it by a whisker.

Martin
5th Gear Bike vs Car part 2 - Altea Ego
Only cos tiff needle was drving it it, too much time lost dooing fancy tail out exercises.
5th Gear Bike vs Car part 2 - Altea Ego
Mind you - the bikey bloke was riding the pegs off that thing - most impressive
5th Gear Bike vs Car part 2 - daveyjp
Should be interesting tonight - they are driving a smart car into a lump of concrete at 70mph to see how it stands up to the impact. Watch those panels pop off!!
5th Gear Bike vs Car part 2 - martint123
It stood up to it amazingly well. However I doubt any car going into a concrete wall at 70 will have any living occupants.
5th Gear Bike vs Car part 2 - Dynamic Dave
I was quite surprised at how well the M reg Corsa stood up to it as well. Not bad for a 9 yr old car.
5th Gear Bike vs Car part 2 - Leif
I thought it was quite an entertaining program despite a bit of auto-porn from Jason Plato. (It gets tedious watching a journalist having a good time in a car that I will never drive.) Maybe TG should take a look at this program.
5th Gear Bike vs Car part 2 - Dynamic Dave

Although I like Jason Plato as a presenter, why aren't Quentin and Tom Ford in this current series?
5th Gear Bike vs Car part 2 - Morris Ox
Although I like Jason Plato as a presenter, why aren't Quentin
and Tom Ford in this current series?

Tom Ford is now listed as working for Top Gear magazine, so I suspect regular appearances on a BBC rival would be regarded as inappropriate. In any case, while he might have a nice turn of phrase he's never come across to me as a TV natural.

Not sure what's happened to Quentin.
5th Gear Bike vs Car part 2 - Dynamic Dave
Tom Ford is now listed as working for Top Gear magazine,
so I suspect regular appearances on a BBC rival would be
regarded as inappropriate.


Apparantly according to the TV listings Tom is on tonight's programme. Vicki and Tom test the latest people-carriers.

5th Gear Bike vs Car part 2 - Morris Ox
>> Tom Ford is now listed as working for Top Gear
magazine,
>> so I suspect regular appearances on a BBC rival would
be
>> regarded as inappropriate.
Apparantly according to the TV listings Tom is on tonight's programme.
Vicki and Tom test the latest people-carriers.

He was indeed, but bear in mind how long ago it will have been recorded.

Thought the Focus C-Max was conspicuous by its absence from the test, and that a Fiat Multipla victory flew in the face of the story that the sales figures tell.

In any case. Top Gear's old MPV race was a much more interetsing take on these sheds...
5th Gear Bike vs Car part 2 - Stuartli
>>It gets tedious watching a journalist having a good time in a car that I will never drive>>

With all due respects, Plato is not a journalist. He's a very skilled motor racing driver who happens to be at ease in front of the cameras. Not easy to achieve.
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5th Gear Bike vs Car part 2 - Altea Ego
With all due respects, Plato is not a journalist. He's a
very skilled motor racing driver who happens to be at ease
in front of the cameras. Not easy to achieve.



He's a motor racing driver.
5th Gear IS the top gear in my book - hillman
Just watched 'Fifth Gear' for the first time to try to get some tips on 'defensive driving' from the SAS expert. Total waste of watching time - not that kind of programme. Only interesting/amusing part was the advert showing the Citroen C4 as a transformer toy.
Shall treat it as the same as Top Gear in future, bottom of watching preference. 'Heartbeat' for ever!!!

Can anyone recommend a thread dealing with defensive driving?
5th Gear IS the top gear in my book - Imagos
VBH failing miserably to top 200mph in the Aston was the highlight for me, at least JC managed it. TG,1 FG,0.

..and that Citreon ad, wow the best car ad for ages!
5th Gear IS the top gear in my book - PW
But does it mean the C4 will fall apart very easily and the electrics will do some very unexpected things..........

5th Gear IS the top gear in my book - Adam {P}
Why break from tradition - the C5 does!

;-)

Sorry - I'll leave now...
--
Adam
Fifth Gear - ndbw
What a shame that the off road test of the Land Rover was shown with its fog lamps blazing throughout in clear visibility,even strangely enough when it was stationary.Will probably result in all purchasers thinking this is a must.

ndbw
Fifth Gear - BobbyG
Noticed the reviewed said that it weighed a third of a tonne more than a Range Rover. Is this correct or did I pick him up wrong?
Fifth Gear - SjB {P}
You heard correctly.
Fifth Gear - Bill Payer
Apparently it's because of some sort of design 'compromise' so it ended up with a monocoque body mounted on a separate chassis.
Fifth Gear - tyre tread
Erm, I think you'll find that the whole point of a monocoque is that it doesn't need a separate chassis.
Fifth Gear - Stuartli
>>Erm, I think you'll find that the whole point of a monocoque is that it doesn't need a separate chassis>>

But, in this particular case, it's true.
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Fifth Gear - colinh
Autocar road test - 16Nov04 -

"Every Land Rover must offer a class-leading spread of abilities and that meant rethinking the car's basic structure. Two separate chassis emerged which, combined underneath the Discovery, are called Integrated Body Frame. This offers the strength of a ladder chassis for off-road performance and, with its unitary body on which the suspension (exotic double wishbones at each corner, and air spheres for springs, or coils for lowlier models) is supported, on-road performance to match the best.
The spec sheet reveals one important side-effect: weight. Even with a magnesium crash structure up front, this car weighs a staggering 2708kg - nearly 200kg more than a VW Touareg V10."
Fifth Gear - patently
its fog lamps blazing throughout in clear visibility,even
strangely enough when it was stationary.Will probably result
in all purchasers thinking this is a must.


Oh - you mean LR do actually fit an 'off' switch?
Fifth Gear - SjB {P}
An F430 for Christmas, please.
Oh, wrong thread, sorry!

Seriously, nice to be watching in the lounge tonight, with full Dolby surround, instead of on the home office TV. Why? That gorgeous engine noise came from where it should. Behind me!
Fifth Gear - patently
Nah. I'll stick with a 4x4, just for the sake of those around me!
Fifth Gear - trancer
Those large flared nostrils on the 430 will take some getting used to. I will hold off on my order until that happens.
Fifth Gear - PoloGirl
A plea...

Please stop entering the Porsche competition on Fifth Gear. Make a Pologirl very happy and let me win the car I've wanted since it was new when I was about 5! :)

Thank you :)

Fifth Gear - philipb
But if you won the car, you would become PorscheGirl and suffer from dual identity angst.

I'm not entering because too many of my colleagues who have bought a Porsche have run off with younger women at a moment of midlife crisis causing marital mayhem. Safer to stick with a VW for the sake of the family ;-)