I only have two Ford manuals to judge by but are owners manuals dumbing down?
Obviously lots of useful info in the manuals but two examples follow where I think the basic data should be supplied.
I am much more likely to need this info rather than even the oil filter type.
I should not need to phone round to get this information.
From RTFFordM I am now a much wiser owner of a MK II Mondeo.
Is it unreasonable that I might have to get a new battery or some tyres fitted?
Battery. The battery requires minimal maintenance. The level of battery fluid is regularly checked as part of every service,
No mention of battery specification.
So I have to trust it will be replaced at service time. If it just happens to fail some other time then I am vulnerable to being sold anything that fits.
The Focus manual says when replacing a battery, the current and capacity of the new battery must correspond with that of the old battery. WOW!
Tyres. I read that I cannot fit snow chains. Tyre size is specified and a little * says Summer tyres TR HR or VR depending on engine.
So one again I am vulnerable to being sold anything that fits.
Are other makes manuals similar to Ford?
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I wish hi-fi/DVD surround sound setups would dumb down. My Kenwood one is about 4" thick (Thai, Mandarin and English) and is impenetrable. On one of the remotes there are 42 (42, that's what I said) tiny buttons and the only one I understand is the on/off one. My neighbour's 9 year old kid could probably work it all out in 5 minutes.
So - given henryk's comments I opened (for the first time and being made of recycled something or other it's already falling to bits as I write) my own Ford Manual. About 60% of it is given over to (you guessed it) what the buttons on the sound system do. But I still can't work out how to set the clock so I just deduct 33 minutes from what it says if I need to know the time.
Brake system: Driving with worn disc pads is dangerous. The brakes could fail and cause an accident. As soon as (I would have though IF!) you hear a screeching noise consult an authorised Ford Dealer.
(Reminds me of that sign you see in Hong Kong elevators "When there is a fire do not use the lift")
Wipers: there is a circuit breaker if they jam in heavy snow or ice...er, excuse me, we all live on or around the Equator.
Washer: turn the knob to the (little picture) position. To stop the wiper, turn it back.
Seatbelts: using one seat belt for more than one person at a time is dangerous (now I know they're talking to those who live on or around the Equator).
Idling for long periods with the windows closed is dangerous. How long is "dangerous" 20 mins, 30 mins? That's normal where I live. Open a window from time to time. What and get gassed by black smoke bus fumes?! The writer obviously has no experience of traffic conditions in Bangkok, Manila or Beijing, the very markets he's talking at!
henryk I conclude you are correct.
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The local Opel manual has some pearlers, including:
Do not remove the key from the ignition while driving
Be careful when working in engine bay while engine is running
Do not use any fuel except petrol (ie diesel, paraffin)
At night, drive with your lights on
Do not adjust the seating position while driving
Do not adjust the steering while while driving
I suppose, though, in these days of PC and litigious folk, unless you CYA (Cover Your A4#3) for any and every eventuality, you will face a bill of squillions if some moron does something totally stupid, and then sues you 'because you didn't warn me about it in the manual'!
Imagine being the chaps who write the things? They'd have to wade through hundreds of worst-case scenarios, to decide what to include...
"Hey, Bob! This woman here says the cigarette lighter socket won't take her curling tongs? Shall we put a para in about 'don't curl your hair while driving?"
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I swear, the manual in my old Micra had something along the lines of:
"Depress the clutch pedal and use the gear-lever to select first gear. Depress the accelerator a little to increase the revs and gradually release the clutch until the engine engages."
On my current car I tend to refer to the Haynes manual rather than the user manual.
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Not a car manual, but I've just built some small nest tables for our lounge.
There were various instructions with them that were unneseccary, but the winner by a clear mile has to be the very last one.
After you've affixed all the legs, there is actually an instruction to 'rotate through 180 degrees' so that it's the right way up before use.
The mind boggles.
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After you've affixed all the legs, there is actually an instruction to 'rotate through 180 degrees' so that it's the right way up before use. The mind boggles.
My kids once used an small old table in the garage as a sledge, so in that case you can ignore that last instruction right?
In USA the handbooks are full of warnings of the dangers associated with just about every action you can possibly make in a car.
I am now aware that before using the jack I should bring the car to a halt.
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On my current car I tend to refer to the Haynes manual rather than the user manual.
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Hmmmm!
Haynes Focus manual. Battery in the Spec section.
Lead calcium - marked Ca. Absolutely nothing else!
So thats alright then.
Haynes dumbing down too?
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"The level of battery fluid is regularly checked as part of every service"
That's one of the main changes, of course - manuals used to assume that you would make those sort of checks yourself. I bet it doesn't mention checking the tyre pressures or oil level either, even though any of those things might need attention between services, especially now that the intervals are so long.
The problem for the manual writers, who I'm sure would willingly give you all that information, is that once you encourage the owner to lift the bonnet, the lawyers will insist that you're inviting him to do something stupid (as if he couldn't from behind the wheel!).
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I agree 100% about manuals being dumbed down. So go for a CD workshop manual ('E Bay' automotive section) these are usually copies of manufacturers original workshop manuals. Pirated (I imagine) by an employee with a CDRW at home one evening. I suppose they could be legitimate but who knows?
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Battery and tyre suppliers have masses of info on what is required for any particular vehicle.
A battery will also have the part number listed somewhere and suppliers will be aware of compatible alternatives.
As most owners are not interested or unable to undertake more than routine checks such as topping up the oil, windscreen washer bottle and oiling various locks, because ECUs control everything engine-wise, there's not much need for other than basic information.
For those that do want a little more the Haynes manuals still remain the most useful option at a reasonable price compared to a service manual.
As a point of interest, original equipment manufacturers' (OEM) batteries, exhausts etc are generally far longer lasting than quick fit replacements.
For those with Swedish, German or French cars, a visit to:
www.gsfcarparts.com/about/
will reveal a motor factor who does supply OEM parts and at lower cost than the franchises...:-)
You can order the latest catalogue online.
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Battery and tyre suppliers have masses of info on what is required for any particular vehicle.
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Depending on what they have in stock?
A battery will also have the part number listed somewhere and suppliers will be aware of compatible alternatives.
Yes but my Ford battery is not the same as Haynes lists although it is probably OK.
not much need for other than basic information.
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I consider the battery basic a spec item and also minimum speed rating. I think the MoT tester would object to the wrong speed rating. For those that do want a little more the Haynes manuals still remain the most useful option at a reasonable price compared to a service manual.
The Haynes Focus manual as stated above has very little info on the battery. There are errors and ommissions in it that I have advised Haynes of.
Realistically basic info should be there. How many users require in depth details of engine rebuilds compared with the basics?
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The Haynes manual for my Golf/Bora states 36 to72Ah (depending on model and market); presumably the sheer number of possibilities rules out other than leaving it to the supplier..:-)
Under Renewing battery in the Bora's handbook, VW states: "Our batteries have been developed to suit their fitting location.
"If the battery has to be renewed, the new battery must have the same voltate (12 Volts), shape and safety features such as a central degassing and the plugs must be sealed with an O-ring.
"Current capacity and capacity should be the same as the old battery. Volkswage dealers have a range of suitable batteries.]
"Because of the problem of disposing of the old battery the renewal of a battery should preferably be done by a VW dealer.
"Batteries contain, amongst other things, sulphuric acid and lead and must on no account be put with normal household waste."
Now I agree that the latter section is/would be a useful and rewarding income source for VW dealers compared to quick fit suppliers, but there does seem to be some excuse for not listing the exact battery your car requires in manuals.
That's due to the wide range of engines, model variants etc compared to the "old" days when there were only a comparative handful of different battery sizes.
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Definitely, owning one car with an owners manual from 1969 and one car from 2002 - there is a real difference.
For a start, the 1969 one has a little phone directory (supplied as a separate booklet) of all the approved Rover dealers in the country, even the General Manager's full names of each one.
Then the back of the manual reads like something from the starting instructions of the Space Shuttle. Every conceivable manufacturer of oil, ATF and transmission oil (including grease) is included and acceptable grades from each manufacturer. Not to mention the ratings not just for every bulb but also the brand names of several bulb manufacturers!
Oh for common standards...
Speaking of batteries, 36 to 72Ah is nothing, try a handbook with acidic gravity, topping up intervals and remembering to read the bit about never topping up a hot battery!!!
It's great, the brand names are a bit useless today. Useless factoid of the day, Castrol TQF ATF fluid is still called TQF though.
Frankly, I'm not sure what is best, an uber detailed owner's handbook or something a little more user friendly.
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Er... surely this is a fuss about nothing????
If you need a new battery, you wander into Halfords and look up your vehicle in their extensive lists, if you can't find it in the list wander over to the parts counter and they will find it for you.
They'll tell you the correct type.
Go out buy correct type, fit to car.
Want to know what kind of oil you need? See above.
Tyres/ tyre Pressure? See above except change Halfords to Quick Fit.
All of the above information is readily available from a variety of sources once you've found it out, you've found it out!
Why would you expect an owner manual to do anything more than metaphorically suck through it's teeth and say "You'd better see a dealer about that!"
If the biggest gripe you can find about your car is the handbook is rubbish I reckon you're in front wouldn't you agree?
;-) JaB
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I agree justabloke, owners manuals should serve as a precis. If you really want more detail, get the Haynes or better still, the workshop manual.
When buying a battery for one of my cars, it is a simple as measuring up the battery box and looking for the highest Ah rating that will fit. I did get funny looks in halfords holding up a tape measure to a 12v battery.
Currently the 60Ah battery from a Vauxhall Corsa fits a treat :) Just enough for a dozen prolonged go's on the ignition. :(
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From this we can gather that Ford manuals are best used as loo roll. I think that VW ones are better written. Comparing a 1982 Passat Manual to a 1993 Polo manual, the former contains all the information you need to know, but the latter contains further more, explaining things in greater detail.
So while some manufacturers have dumbed down, others have padded out!
"If you really want more detail, get the Haynes or better still, the workshop manual." My haynes has (in some areas) dumbed down what was wriiten in the allready idiot proof Handbook.
Funny how what Stuartli states from his more recent manual is the same is what is my '93 one and similar to was written a further 10 years befor that! VAG handbook writers use a lot of copy and paste word processing.
Also, the brochure for my car contains all battery and alternator specs, but the handbook doesn't?
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As I have already stated the Haynes details on the Focus battery is not a lot of use. The Haynes details on the Mondeo gives three battery sizes but not the spec of the one fitted. That leaves a pirate CD or the main dealer as the data source.
I certainly would not use Halfords as the oracle but phone a couple of main dealers with an open question on battery size.
IIRC a recent thread stated that it is not a good idea to fit a larger battery just because there is space on the battery tray.
Sure I can phone round and trust a.n.other for the answers but the info should be in the manual.
There is the basic stuff on controls and features which is good.
There are wonderful tables on CO2 emissions. A company car user would already have researched this and I, a private owner, could not care about it. Speeds in each gear is a really useful table. Who ever looks at it?
Lots of other wonderful stuff I will never need but two of the key items are missing.
Having had a distress buy of a battery, for a previous Ford,in a village Peugeot dealer, my expectations were to look at the manual at home to find the spec.
So I guess the answer is that manuals are dumbing down except for CYA and therefore we have to trust the dealers, or NOT.
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As I have already stated the Haynes details on the Focus battery is not a lot of use.
Does the battery not have a label on it, giving the relevant details?
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If you need a new battery, you wander into Halfords and look up your vehicle in their extensive lists, if you can't find it in the list wander over to the parts counter and they will find it for you. They'll tell you the correct type. Go out buy correct type, fit to car.
Battery flat on wife's Celica. Drive to Halfords in own car.
"Look up your vehicle in their extensive lists, if you can't
find it in the list wander over to the parts counter
and they will find it for you.
They'll tell you the correct type.
Go out buy correct type, fit to car."
Gethome, battery totally wrong size and shape. Drive to Halfords. Check again. Battery number as specified in their list. Ask if there's a different size. Blank looks. Obtain refund. Take old battery to independent garage. Obtain replacement. Take home and fit to car.
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A Hyundai Pony (known as the Mustang) manual once told me to "Make sure the spark plug gaps are correct." - without actually specifying them. (It's not written on the box either).
Our Lada (Tasha) manual, on the other hand, even told you how to start her should the temperature drop below -40C (but not how to fix the intermittant electrical fault that even the main dealer could not fix) ((Cured eventually by fitting an ignition module made by Joe Lucas, Prince of Darkness, instead of the OE Bosch part)) (((Which failed thrice))).
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"known as the Mustang"
And Ford didn't sue them? (remembering poor old Dutton and their Sierra, also the spat with Granada TV).
As for East European manuals, I recall that our Wartburg one was very comprehensive, as indeed was the toolkit, the point being that the owner was expected to maintain it. Admittedly, one could argue that with three sets of contact breakers, it was a more frequent requirement, but in general it was all very easy, as it had been designed that way.
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Translation of all car manuals from car-maker-ese to English results in the following:
"Please don't sue us. Please."
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Renault Megane 1996, under the section called "Opening and Closing Doors":
"Use the key to unlock one of the front door locks. Place your hand behind the handle and pull it towards you".
This handbook is well worth the money in my opinion - not. Details of tappet clearances - no. Plug gaps - no. Tyre sizes - no (range of sizes given depending on model, but no table of which sizes for which model). Total waste of space.
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Hehe - like the Opel handbook - no mention of fuel requirements, whether it takes leaded or unleaded ...
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