I posted on this problem about a year ago, so apologies for bringing it up again. However, the stalling problem at idle is back again and getting annoying.
( see www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=12550 )
The problem is on a Y-plate(\'01) car.
To recap, the problem only happens first thing in a morning - the car is driven down a steep(ish) hill in third, foot off the accelerator for 200yds towards a junction at the bottom. When I declutch on reaching the junction, the engine dies. Upon restarting (and at all other times) the engine never misses a beat.
Last time, the garage re-programmed the ECU, changed the ECU, re-set the throttle assembly up, cleaned the throttle assembly, etc. on numerous visits (5) last summer and the problem seemed to be cured until this week when it\'s started happening again every morning.
Has anybody else had this problem with their 2.2, or know of any possible solution? Unlike last summer, the car is now out of its warranty.
Many thanks in advance.
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Possibly the idle speed control valve is getting gunged up again due to blocked crankcase breathers?, although I would expect that on a 3 year old car.
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Thanks for that - I'll mention the breathers to the dealer when he takes the 6th look at it next week.
I'm afraid (yet again) that to keep the engine from stalling at idle, I'll have to take the throttle assembly to pieces every 6months to clean the idle air control valve, etc. like I had to do with my last Vectra, a 2.0 16V that kept cutting out. I cannot believe that no lessons have been learnt by Vauxhall from the 2.0 engine's problems.
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Have you tried any fuel aditives/cleaners, such as Forte, which is what Vauxhall generally use?
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Thanks Dave, that's probably worth a try and could be a lot cheaper than a Vauxhall dealer musing over it for a few hours. Which one of the Forte ones would you recommend, or is there a Vauxhall/Opel approved one that would do the job?
The only thing the mechanic mentioned last time (I don't know if this was true or not) was that they had a special coating on the throttle unit parts to prevent it gunging up (obviously that isn't working too well!) and that some injection cleaners can strip that protection off. Don't know what you think about that?
Cheers.
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Thanks. I'll have a look for it this weekend.
One last question: have you ever used it in your 2.2?
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The garage *claim* they have put it in every time it's been serviced. It's on my invoices, and they ask before adding it as it's not compulsory for them to put it in.
I recall mentioning that my 2.2 hasn't missed a beat in your thread posted last year. The same still applies (fingers crossed & touch wood, etc). Now at 40,000 miles.
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A fuel additive won't help with a clagged throttle body. The injectors are well downstream of the IACV and it never sees any fuel. They get clagged-up because of oil mist and combustion vapour coming back via the crankcase PCV hoses.
This seems to have been a perennial problem with Vauxhall for about the last 10 years - I would have thought they'd have got it sorted by now!
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Thanks for all your advice, gentlemen. I've booked the car in next week for the dealer to look at. It'll be interesting to see if he wants to replace the IAC valve now the car's out of warranty... When I spoke to two different dealerships on Friday, they both said there were known issues with the 1.8 16V and 2.0 16V units cutting out (I know all too well about the 2.0), but nothing with the 2.2 lump. Hmmm.
If they can't provide a satisfactory solution, I'll probably take the throttle assembly to pieces myself and see if some carb cleaner will sort it.
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This is certainly a common 1.8/2.0 problem. My 2.0 required a new IAC valve at about 60k miles. A friend's 2.0 Vectra had a Vauxhall mod done to the breather system after the clogged IAC valve was replaced, at about 25k miles. Consisted of an oil trap addded to the breather pipe. Unfortunately he sold it not long after, so I don't know how effective it was, but it may be worth enquiring about this.
You can try a clean, but the impression I have is it's rarely effective, or a long term solution.
Regards
John S
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The 2.2 is a "fly by wire throttle". The older 1.8's and 2.0's weren't. The assembly *is* probably completely different.
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@Nablane
Hold back on Paying out your hard earned cash............Long story but will try to keep it short for you....
Brought 02 plate 2.2 last year.Usuall problems steering knocking, brakes etc etc. But then developed a problem at startup.Start car watch revs 1500 then 10 sec s later 1000 revs then revs dip 3 or 4 times and runs like a bag of Or start up take off down road 200 yards then pull up at junction, dip clutch then stalls.Been into Vaux garage 11 times for this and after changing throttle body, EGR valve, Temp sensor,Plugs, Coil pack.DIS pack, Petrol pump the problem still existed.Contacted Vaux Careline field engineer sent out and problem seen but not rectified again and when caused a big fuss problem put down to no problem at all it is a CHARACTORISTIC OF THE VEHICLE>By vauxhall.As a goodwill gesture they will give me trade in plus £1000 as a goodwill gesture, to get me out of this vehicle.BUT they only offered me £4250 as the car runs pink fluffy dice and they dont want it on their stock list so I am £4000 down over 12 months.Talks broke down as Vaux say NO Fault so decided to call in a favour from old friend who just happens to be a commercial director over Vaux Europe.After wiping their hands of my car Head of Technical rings me at home to say they are taking the car in On Monday the 7th to do a full check on Tuesday and promissed me the problem would be rectified one way or the other..........
So my advise to you and all others with the same problem is wait for mine to be seen and sorted and they wil tell me what has needed to be done etc and then I can let you know so that you can point your garage in the right direction and save yourselves hundreds of pounds in parts and diagnostics that dont pick anything up at all...........
I will post findings as soon as I know ...........
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Thanks very much for your post - that's just the news I'd been waiting for and It's good to know I'm not alone on this one.
My car does *exactly* the same as yours on start-up, although fortunatley is a bit more driveable. However, it does experience 'surging' when giving it some throttle from cold.
I look forward to hearing their findings, in the meantime I've printed out your post to hand in to my friendly Vauxhall dealer today, if you don't mind (I left the car with them last night to look at the problem this morning, but experience tells me they won't find a thing).
Thanks once again.
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And the surging when cold that you describe let me guess..........You take off down the road and the car feels like its holding back until it hit just over 3000 revs then it kicks again and then all is well and it doesn't do it again.Feels like driving old turbo diesel when the turbo kicks in to give you more power.
Cant believe I have found someone else with the same problems and Vaux Tech deny all problems with this engine.
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You're absolutely spot-on. When I pull off the works car park in the evening, I sometimes have to get moving quickly on the road and the car doesn't seem to get going until 3000RPM - not a smooth acceleration at all.
The car was in Wed evening for them to have a look at Thurs morning. They couldn't replicate the problem (as I expected) so the work they have done is as follows:
Check the software version of the ECU and re-program the ECU;
Clean the throttle assembly;
Re-set the 'base point' of the throttle assembly.
In all fairness to the dealership, they're keeping this under the warranty system as it's been a recurring problem.
Anyway, I get in the car this morning, set off out of the drive and down the road, doing approx. 30 in 3rd. Decelerate to the junction at the bottom, de-clutch and... the car dies. No improvement whatsoever.
I can believe that Vauxhall tech support won't admit a problem as yet, as I had the same with my 2.0 16V. As it was from new (but no 3yr warranty), I had bought a new IAC valve when the cutting-out at idling problem started after about 2yrs of ownership. This valve lasted 6months before gunging up again and only then was the crankcase breather modification starting to be fitted to vehicles with this problem - I'm sure they must have had the same problems reported from other drivers way before then.
Anyway, at least we're not on our own now, but you sound like you?ve a far better chance of getting to the root cause of the problem than me. I'll speak with the dealer this morning and mention what you?ve said in your post - although going over with this thread printed out might be a better option.
I look forward to hearing from you next week and hope that Vauxhall come up with a definitive solution. In the meantime it's time to pick up the phone to the dealer...
Cheers.
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Oh dear I thought that we were going to get some progress with this one but heres what happened.
Took car to the dealers Monday night as asked too and then tonight at 5:00 got an answer message on my phone.Can you please ring the dealers tomorrow as we couldn't get hold of Vaux Technical all day so we haven't even looked at your car so we don't know what they want us to do with it..............When someone finally gets round to looking at it I will let you know what is said..........
@Nablane Have you had anymore joy with your dealers????
Cheers
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I've had about as much progress as you. Went to take my car to the dealer last night as arranged and arrived to find everybody had gone home - no arrangements for courtesy car, etc. What a waste of time.
I left them with a printout of the problems that you've been having (just so they know I'm not completely insane). I'll call them today and see what they have to say.
Will let you know as soon as I hear anything useful.
Cheers.
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Things are starting to happen now .dealer had car since Monday Now its thursday and tests been done and guess what been told to fit new EGR valve..................instructions from technical..........Dont know who cant read what but if case notes where read they would see new EGR valve fitted on 30.03.04.
But if they have instructed this to be done then there MUST BE something showing in the DATA they have received back from the TECH 2 test.Dealer not happy as I still have one of their cars and no progress with mine as car still the same after work done today.............
@ Nablane dont know if you can pm me on this forum but contact me on cyborg67@ntlworld.com for info on your dealer etc.If no results on friday I'm going for legal action on the sale of goods act 1994 as this car is NOT fit for its purpose and of satifactory quality, durability and freedom from defects.........
Over 20 jobs done and 30 intakes to garage in 15 months..................
Totally frustrated
Cyborg67
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