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Has anybody any experiences to report on the Toyota Prius or Honda IMA models? In particular, are the official fuel consumption figures actually achievable in real motoring?
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This is my first posting on the forum, as I was pointed to this thread by a friend. Please, no flames!
I own a Honda Insight (their peculiar-looking 2 seater first generation hybrid car) and I have to say, I love the thing to bits. It definitely turns heads when I'm driving it around.
According to the onboard fuel consumption computer, the lifetime average of the car is an extremely respectable 68.5 miles per gallon, achieved over the last 17,000 miles or so. I admit that I'm an extremely light-footed driver (my petrolheaded friends say I drive like an old granny; I'm really a 32-year-old male!). I'd say that I do roughly half-and-half "urban" and "motorway" driving by mileage.
The only real complaint I've had against my car is its peculiar covered-rear-wheel design. The rear wheels are not in line with the front wheels, this makes the handling a bit peculiar and parallel parking is nigh-on impossible (I have a LOT of scuff marks on the wheel trim and the aerodynamic rubber trim around the bottom of the car from pavement scrapes). That and an extreme reluctance to go up steep hills or accelerate when at speed are the only issues I've ever had.
Still, with those fuel consumption figures I'm one of the very few people in the land who actually cheers at oil/petrol price rises; other people with fuel-guzzling bad driving habits will be discouraged from the road.
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Thank you for the information. The Insight is certainly a distinctive looking car. I quite like it. The only problem is a two seater would be no good to me.
Its interesting to note that despite a light right foot you get only 68.5 mpg. By most standards this would be excellent, but it does fall short of the official combined figure of 83 mpg.
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>>Please, no flames!
You will find that we don't have those around here, from anyone or to anyone. Its a bit more frank in the Discussions Forum than it is here in the Technical Forum, but still not rude or mean.
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The lack of flame risk is definitely a change from other forums I've contributed to, so thanks.
I was never under any illusions that I would reach the overly-favourable "marketing" figure of 83 mpg (and I was under the impression that was the purely Highway figure). But I started poking around the Honda website anyway to see what I could see. Lo and behold, I found this snippet after registering my car's details:
EPA Mileage Estimates**/Fuel Capacity
5-Speed Manual (City/Highway): 61/68
Fuel (gal.): 10.6
Fuel Required: Regular Unleaded
** Mileage figures shown for comparison only. Actual mileage may vary.
I hope someone could help me here, it looks like the EPA figure is some sort of "official" American Federal mileage that hasn't been manipulated by marketing people. Regardless, I'm feeling rather smug now. :)
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Talking of "Flames" but ones of a different kind, I read in yesterdays newspaper that, apparently, the Fire Service are very concerned about the prospect of having to cut someone out of an accident-damaged Toyota Prius or Honda Insight because of the high voltage electrical systems which these cars use (The newspapers words, not mine!)
They say they haven't received sufficient training in dealing with these vehicles, and their concern is that in, say, cutting through a wiring loom, their members could be themselves injured.
The only comment from a manufaturer of hybrid vehicles was from Toyota, who commented that they have notified every Fire Service in the country about possible hazards with associated with their vehicles, and that it was up to them how they chose to pass this information on for the benefit of their staff.
Interesting!
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Interesting point re The fire brigade. What happens when we are all driving around with Hydrogen Fuel cells?
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Interesting point re The fire brigade. What happens when we are all driving around with Hydrogen Fuel cells?
Just to insert my £0.02 worth at this point:
All the high voltage cables in my Insight are bright orange. I'm sure this is to prevent a fireman or foolish person from cutting it, but in case of a crash where visibility is low... perhaps I don't want to be there. ;)
Hydrogen is pretty much just as explosive as petrol fumes. An advantage of pure hydrogen over petrol is that, if a leak in the tank occurs, the gas escapes very quickly and completely leaves the scene.
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These figures do beg the question of how effective the hybrid cars are. When you consider that it's perfectly possible to get 60mpg out of many small diesel cars such as Polos, Fabias etc. The well known example is the 3 litre Lupo which only uses 3 litres of fuel to travel 100kms. Even Honda's own petrol Jazz can approach these figures. These cars also give excellent on road performance. Given the extra cost of hybrids plus the complexity I think the technology has a long way to go before it is competitive.
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The hybrid technology is more aimed at low emissions than very high MPG and the Japanese want to sell many different models to the Americans.Toyota and Honda are introducing MPVs and trucks to both the US and Japanese markets and they have sold many thousands of hybrids in those markets,its just all a bit too new for us Brits.
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When you consider that it's perfectly possible to get 60mpg out of many small diesel cars such as Polos, Fabias etc. The well known example is the 3 litre Lupo which only uses 3 litres of fuel to travel 100kms. Even Honda's own petrol Jazz can approach these figures. These cars also give excellent on road performance. Given the extra cost of hybrids plus the complexity I think the technology has a long way to go before it is competitive.
My last car, a 1.8 diesel fiesta would do over 70mpg on a run (mixing it with the trucks in lane 1 admitadly) and would happily run on a mix of 80% vegatable oil 20% diesel. Must be even cheaper per mile and mor enviromentaly sound than the insight/prius. Wish I'd kept it, now with fuel going up even more...
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I wonder why nobody makes a diesel / electric hybrid. Any thoughts?
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I wonder why nobody makes a diesel / electric hybrid. Any thoughts?
Diesels work well and most efficient (well there designed to but lets not get into that) a hybrid diesel is an excellent idea but would be less efficient as the incresed weight etc is against the weight of the system the petrol works as the petrol engine charecteristics are better designed to the therot.
Best get a dci Clio or similar common rail diesel. Much simpler etc.
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It sounds like you have found the American figures. Remember the American gallon is smaller than ours. The 83MPG I quoted was from UK literature, and is the combined figure, using the standard European tests. From memory I think the urban was 68MPG and the extra-urban an incredible 95MPG.
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1 US pint = 16 fl oz, 1 imperial pint = 20 fl oz. Therefore add 25% to convert US mpg to imperial mpg.
Therefore 68 miles per US gallon would be 85 miles per imperial gallon.
--
Terry
"You'll have to speak up I'm wearing a towel"
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I had forgotten about different-sized gallons between here and there. Perhaps I should look up on my car's computer what my fuel consumption is in terms of litres per 100 km, at least those units are consistent the world over! That & a calculator would also tell me whether my driving style really is more lead-footed than I thought!
I would _really_ like to know what sort of performance other Insight (& other hybrid) owners get on their vehicles. I can't believe I'm the only hybrid owner reading this forum.
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Just to make a point about the sheer uselessness of the extra urban fuel economy test. The maximum acceleration used is equivalent to going from 0 - 30 MPH in about 30 seconds,nobody drives like this in the real world. Furthermore the test is the same whether it's for a Porsche 911 or Nissan Micra - the gearshifts positions, speeds and accelerations have to be in exactly the same place on the chassis dynamometer used.
It's very easy for the manufacturers (particular of small cars) to tailor make their vehicles for the cycle to give v good MPG so the owner has even less chance of meeting the figures in the real world.
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I preferred the previous economy tests where figure were given for constant 56MPH and constant 75MPH. The constant 56 figure was an indication of what could be achieved if you really tried. The constant 75 was a good guide to motorway economy, if keeping to 70MPH.
It also strikes me that testing on a dyno takes no account of aerodynamic efficiency.
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Are there any Toyota Prius owners out there?
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CBS News, 28 May comment on EPA figures
tinyurl.com/2gf3f
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I have had my New Prius for just over two months and have done just over 2,000 miles in that time. I reset the trip computer each week when I fill up with petrol and have never had less than 50mpg. I usually get around 55mpg and occasionally get over 60mpg. These are combined figures and always involve a hefty dose of dual carriageway driving and a crawl into, and out of, Leeds. For a large 4-seater, I think these figures are really quite good - I nearly always have a passenger with me and drive 'normally' rather than in controlled conditions, so do not expect to achieve the manufacturer's offical figures (65mpg combined) - it takes me a lot less than 30 seconds to get to 60mph, let alone 30mph!
On the whole I am thoroughly impressed with the Prius. It is very smooth, quiet and comfortable and has good acceleration, both from a standing start and also at speed, where the electric and petrol motors work well together. Finally, I have to admit that it is quite a buzz watching people jump as I pull away next to them silently.
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Those are good fuel economy figures and using an electric motor makes alot of sense in town for noise and pollution reduction.
Must say though i am surprised more progress hasn't been made in fuel economy - Peugeot way back in 1983 introduced the diesel 205 that would give just as good fuel economy using much simpler and cheaper technology.
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Thanks Si-Jay
I'm considering a Prius for my next car, so your experiences are most helpful. I'm not sure if I can justify it on cost grounds. It would take a few miles to recover the extra purchase cost, but I'd like to do a little bit for the environment.
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