For the somewhat unusual but reliable and fairly luxurious, why not:-
Honda Legend
Toyota Camry
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I may be wrong, but don't Legends have a trap for the unwary, in the form of a cam chain that requires serious dismantling? IIRC the drive is from the centre of the crank, not the end of the shaft. Molto yen, molto cock-up factor.
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I have a Legend in the Middle East and whilst reliable they are expensive on fuel ,. This of course is not a problem out there but may be for Bill in the UK and any repair when you are out of warranty could be mega bucks.
I'd be looking at the best you can find for the money in the Honda , Toyota or Mazda range.
Bill , I wish you the best of luck with your new choice because I've been there in the same position as you in the past.
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I know you have discounted French cars, but I just have to chip in with the history of our Xantia 1.9 TD.
Bought from new in 1994 it has now covered 102,000 miles. It is now our second car, the other being a C5 2.2 HDI. In almost ten years it has had the following replaced (apart from obvious things like glow plugs, cam belt, etc):
1. Hydraulic pump - £300
2. Front suspension link.
3. Front brake discs
4. Battery - only recently.
It has broken down just once, when a valve seized in the rear suspension. The engine has never missed a beat, I never have to top up the oil in between services and it returns never worse than 40 mpg (600 miles to a tank minimum). In addition, it has never developed one rattle or squeak in all this time. I think Citroens are generally vastly underrated.
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Thanks machika - I get a bit fed up with the Cit bashing too!
We have now had 5 in 18 years, 2 BXs (310k mile between them and 1 breakdown between them - broken throttle cable. 1 clutch, 1 pump for £125 fitted), 2 Xantias 95k and 75k, no breakdowns, 1 pump, 1 clutch. All of these did a lot of towing, which may explain clutches or may not since old BX has now done 150k on original. Other things just wear and tear (pads, discs etc)Berlingo only year old so nowt wrong so far.
Xantias also v. cheap second hand so if you take the price difference between them and some other equivalent cars, the cost of a new clutch or pump comes free!
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.. it is a shame your not considering the french offerings...imo the reliability advantage of jap cars is not as great as it used to be and you have to offset this against the bland styling, and inferior ride and handling - although to be fair the new Mazda 626 / Nissan primera are much improved.
For your money you could buy a Peugeot 406 hdi 110 which would provide almost as good real world performance as the mondeo but use half as much fuel. Given some precautionery maintanence and you buy with a full FSH you shouldn't regret your choice.
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This thread really is a shame :(
I've got both a 94 Xantia TD and a 99 Mondeo Ghia X and I cannot speak highly enough of either. Granted I've only had the Mondeo less than a fortnight, but the 2.0 LX the family had for 4 years previously was completely and utterly faultless. Ditto the Xantia - in almost 2 years, there have been no serious problems and the only breakdown was a loose pipe which cost a fiver to replace.
Shame you've had a bad experience with the Mondeo, and it's also a shame it's put you off what, IMHO, is the best value car under £4000, full stop.
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IMHO, is thebest value car under £4000, full stop.
hear hear!! some people just will not like mondeo's no matter what, it's badge snobbery, they wont like fords however good the product... yes i'm biased, i own 2 reliable mondeos i'm very happy with.
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IMHO, is the >> best value car under £4000, full stop. >> hear hear!! some people just will not like mondeo's no matter what, it's badge snobbery, they wont like fords however good the product... yes i'm biased, i own 2 reliable mondeos i'm very happy with.
Let's not have too much sympathy for Mondeos or Fords in general. I'm not knocking the Mondeo here, but there is still massive support for Ford cars in the UK, as there has been for over 40 years. They have at times topped the UK sales charts with some pretty ordinary cars. I remember watching a programme on TV once when a member of the public ventured the opinion that a Ford Escort looked a million dollars compared with a Peugeot 306 (surely one of the prettiest hatchbacks of recent years, with great handling to boot). I think my jaw hit the floor.
There are plenty of people in the UK that will countenance nothing but a Ford on the grounds that they consider they are much easier and cheaper to service and that they are British cars. None of these opinions hold true, I would have thought, especially with much of Ford's production having been taken out of the UK. Where exactly are Mondeo's made, for example?
Our Xantia has been extremely low cost, since we dispensed with main dealer servicing. What you really need with any car is someone to service it properly.
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I'm not especially a Ford fan, but the latest warranty direct figures puts a Ford at first place (lowest cost) for repair bills, with two other places in the top 10. The Mondeo is at number 8.
They say "The Blue Oval does, however, prove to be the cheapest manufacturer to repair. Three models - the Ka (1), Mondeo (8) and Focus (9), fall inside the Top 10 giving an average of £195.44."
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"it's badge snobbery, they wont like fords however good the product"
When I was a lad, that used to be called "being discerning".
I think once you have been as badly bitten by a marque as Bill has, you would rather pull your own arm off rather than sign a cheque for something wearing the same badge.
You'll find everywhere folk who swear by their favourite manufarcturer, and others who have rational and irrational prejudices against the same badge. It just proves that the car makers have some way to go to get a consistent product.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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couldnt agree more about "discerning" i have had many cars that i have previously said i wouldn't buy one of those and some were amazingly good eg the volvo 960 great car if a bit juicy citroen bx never again citroen zx amazing . it's horses for courses and like said if you get bitten by one you probably wont go near another the same i wont buy a ford now have had many some good some bad
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"i have had many cars that i have previously said i wouldn't buy one of those"
I can't practise what I preach either. I would never buy a French a car - except that I've had three. Visa - bit cacky but got from A to B reliably, 306 & 406 excellent. I can't say I've ever had a car I hated. Plenty which are boring, soulless, uninspiring but comfy, warm & reliable all the same. The most fun have been two alfas - always something wrong with them but they never actually stopped going. For every time you have to stop to fix a bit of trim, jiggle a wire etc you get half-a-dozen drives with a huge grin an your face.
Anyway, I digress from my point which is that surveys, recommendations, whatever, are usually generalisations. Some people will have a great "bad" car and others will have a poor "good" car. You can only go by your own experience. My Fords have been great but if I'd had Bills car I doubt very much that I would put my trust in another Ford.
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Having read the above comments on Citreon cars and Mondeos i must add the following
I have owned a Mondeo Estate TD 97 P reg 85K on the clock bought @51K from a franchised dealer. The only things that have had to be replaced in addition to the normal wear and tear items ( Tyres x 4,Pads 1 set,Glow plugs x 2 and Discs 1 pair) have been the pump return spring £12 and washer bottle pump £25.Not bad and all known faults.
As for SWMBO Citreon ZX ( Great ride comfort) 1.9D L reg 61K bought @51K that in a period of 12 months has had
1. Throttle cable-snapped (£50 Supply and fit@ Citreon independent specialist)
2. Lower radiator hose- Chaffed which led to 3.(£80 supply and fit@ same garage)
3. New head gasket + head skim (£480 again @same garage)
4. Front tyres x 2 ( waer and tear )
5. Pump solenoid (£50 leaking diesel)
All these failures occured over a 4 week period during March 2003 But since then has been 100% reliable yet i am now told that the n/s Outer CV Gaiter is seeping.
Would i buy another Mondeo yes would i but another Citreon probably but with extreme caution
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The ONLY car that I have not seen to be slated at all here is the Skoda Octavia.
Why don't you have a try in one of those?
Hugo
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Let's not get too excited by the Mondeo. Yes they're good value, but that's because they depreciate quickly, which is hardly great work by Ford.
The Warranty Direct figures tell you that claims are made as often for the Mondeo as for the very worst car, the Subaru Impreza - both 25%. So not massively reliable, just cheap to fix.
The best car for £4,000? Certainly not the Mondeo. With the lowest breakdown figure of just 8% AND the oldest design in the top ten, not to mention low depreciation and FUN dammit, it's the MX5.
I reckon the Mondeo's the best easily available car for £1000-2000.
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"The best car for £4,000? Certainly not the Mondeo. With the lowest breakdown figure of just 8% AND the oldest design in the top ten, not to mention low depreciation and FUN dammit, it's the MX5."
Again though it's a case of horses for courses. FUN the MX5 might be, but completely useless with three kids, accompanying paraphernalia and a weeks shopping to transport.
The quote was that the Mondeo was the "best value car" for £4k, ie it covers more bases to an acceptable standard for the given cost.
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An individual's experience is simply not enough to base a valid judgement on. It's a bit like having a relative of 90 years old who smoked 50 a day, therefore ciggies must be ok for your health.
The best advice is to look at facts and listen to those with inside info from the trade, like our much-esteemed leader. A quick check of the car-by-car guide will tell you what is most likely to be reliable and rewarding to drive.
When I'm spending my own money rather than a company's on an everyday car, it has to be Japanese (classics excepted!). Preferably Subaru.
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An individual's experience is simply not enough to base a valid judgement on. It's a bit like having a relative of 90 years old who smoked 50 a day, therefore ciggies must be ok for your health. The best advice is to look at facts and listen to those with inside info from the trade, like our much-esteemed leader. A quick check of the car-by-car guide will tell you what is most likely to be reliable and rewarding to drive. When I'm spending my own money rather than a company's on an everyday car, it has to be Japanese (classics excepted!). Preferably Subaru.
Don't take everything that you see in the motoring press as facts though. I have been checking out some latest models and many of them fail in one important area - passenger space. I tried out the back seats of a Mazda 6 yesterday and my head was in contact with the roof (I am 6ft. 2in). I couldn't possiby rest my head on the headrests.
I have recently read that the cabin quality of a C5 doesn't match up to a Mondeo. Well, my wife and I tried out a Mondeo before choosing a C5. The C5's interior is much more attractive to our eyes than that of a Mondeo (more variation in tone and colour of trim) and certainly not inferior in the quality of materials used.
As far as driving pleasure is concerned, well I think you have to drive a car to find out what driving pleasure it provides
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As far as driving pleasure is concerned, well I think you have to drive a car to find out what driving pleasure it provides
On second thoughts, yes, I'd agree with that.
I don't trust the motoring press though, I meant chaps like HJ who are in the trade and know the low-down on reliability etc. Seat comfort and the design of the body and interior are also obviously subjective issues but average reliability hopefully shouldn't be.
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Hugo I did look at the Octavia but couldnt get a price to match the Primera, see other thread.
Bill
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