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The lease on my current Mazda iCX-30 is up in the next 9 months so starting think about possible replacements. This is my fifth Mazda so was looking for something different this time round. One car that has piqued my interest and that seems to tick most boxes for me is the new Honda Civic eHEV.
I have been looking at reviews in the motoring mags and on YouTube and they all say it is a very good car. However, the one criticism may of them have is the price. I think the lowest spec is around £31000 and the top spec £36000 which for what you are getting doesn't seem too bad . Are they saying that this is expensive for a humble Civic or that it is expensive for a hybrid saloon full stop? With car prices having gone skywards in the last couple of years, the price doesn't look all that bad.
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I suppose the thinking is that you can get a Focus for £26k for a Titanium up to £40k for an ST, so your Civic is costing you £5k more than it's most mainstream rival.
If you're buying on finance, the deposit and monthly payments are more important than the RRP (unless you plan to keep it).
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I think that one of the problems is that there doesn't seem to be many mainstream rivals to compare it with. Its not a plug in hybrid or even a proper self charging hybrid as it only has a very small battery. The Civic's hybrid set up seems to be quite unusual.
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It may be worth looking at lead times - I did hear recently that dealers were struggling to supply new Civics.
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Yes, one of the reasons I am starting to look around now. This might also be the reason why many of the lease companies don't appear to have this version available.
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A few months back Civics were not available and the backlog was increasing.
They are now again taking orders for Civics on 3 to 6 month lead times.
That said there are still backlogs in HRVs, shortages in Jazz and the new CRV has yet to appear .
Now, if Honda just had a factory in say Swindon.
At one time they made Jazz, Civics, CRVs - the problem was Swindon was opened to supply mainly Europe and European sales are falling.
Honda Europe sales were around 250K per year say 20 years ago - today Honda's European sales are around 70K and almost half of that is the UK!
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That's encouraging to know anyway. Not yet set my heart on any replacement but I am hoping to push any ordering date as late as possible in the (vain?) hope that interest rates will drop a bit.
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The obvious competitor would be the Toyota Corolla Hybrid. Have you looked at that?
As a hatch the boot space isn't great though (& the estate also benefits from greater rear leg room as well as the bigger boot).
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I haven't looked at the Corolla yet but I will. There is a lot of choice out there.
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My colleague bagged one of the first batch which he is very pleased with, but delivery times have become crazy while Honda concentrate on shipping their new generation of EVs built in China.
Apart from a few non starts after being left while on holiday resulting in having to rely on the old Civic diesel with 150 k on the dial it has been faultless .
But he recommends the basic model as the sunroof on the more expensive car greatly impedes the roof height.
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That's interesting. I don't think there is anything much that would tempt me to stump up for the top spec car. I am going to give one a test drive and see what it is like. Hopefully there will be a base spec car at the dealers that I can look at. It seems that all my test drives in the past have been in the most expensive version of the car. I wonder why?
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I actually placed an order for a Civic Advance in February this year and was assured that delivery would be July. 5 weeks later they called me and said there's no chance of getting one this year and they'd be cancelling the order. At that point I was disappointed but mindful that it seemed to be happening with all manufacturers. I also recall saying to the dealer that when orders were able to be placed I'd be interested in placing one. Heard nothing since.
However, what strikes me is that they were selling the same car in Jan/Feb at between £32k and £35k, or at least that was the deal I got. Look now - the same car is being sold for £39,000. The dealer actually confided in me that they were cancelling orders as they were aware that they could sell for more when they became available again.
I bought a Toyota Corolla Hybrid Touring instead and am very happy with it. It's not as nice to drive as the Civic which, to be fair, is excellent, but overall it's a great car. My actual mpg in mixed driving is 58mpg, so not to be sniffed at. I'd also recommend, as someone else suggested in this thread, you look at the Corolla Estate (the hatch was too small for me) if you elect not to go ahead with the Honda.
Edited by Dingle232 on 02/06/2023 at 19:38
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Dingle that is most interesting about them cancelling your order, which reeks of pure profiteering, and would forever cross the maker off my list of doing any future business with.
Glad the Corolla is working out for you, Toyota's warranty extension deals alone would see me going for their products anyway, plus every taxi driver can't be wrong.
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I know Honda are not alone in this respect but why do they charge a different APR for different models. Currently the rate on an HRV is 6.9% while the Civic is 8.9%. Surely the APR is dictated by current interest rates and is set by the finance company.
With respect to the dealer cancelling an order as he could sell the car for more. Surely the dealer has to sell at the manufacturers RRP or close to it anyway.
Edited by davecooper on 03/06/2023 at 09:20
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gordonbennet - It really is, and so blatant as well. Apart from a couple of brief excurions into BMW territory I have always tended to stick with Honda and Toyota because of their reliability, runnng costs and dealer experiences. I have never really been able to choose between the two of them but I must confess this has sullied Hondas reputation in my eyes.
I wouldn't go as far as saying I'll never own another one as I really wanted the Civic, the new one os absolutely brilliant, but I must confess that my experiences with Toyota over the years would probably mean I will start there in future. The Corolla is just excellent, absolutely excellent.
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I understand that the base “Elegance “;model has been taken out of the model range presumably as there is not enough profit in that car.
And not everyone wants faux leather upholstery which appears on the upper ranges.
There is a lot going on behind the scenes at Honda HQ but the future looks like promoting the models made in China ie EVs
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I know Honda are not alone in this respect but why do they charge a different APR for different models. Currently the rate on an HRV is 6.9% while the Civic is 8.9%. Surely the APR is dictated by current interest rates and is set by the finance company.
With respect to the dealer cancelling an order as he could sell the car for more. Surely the dealer has to sell at the manufacturers RRP or close to it anyway.
They charge different APRs because lots of people want Civics and pretty much no-one wants HRVs. I don't know, but I very much suspect like other manufacturers that Honda is the fiance company.
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That we’re discussing £36,000 being “not too bad” for a small family hatchback surprises me. I couldn’t even imagine spending so much on a Civic, even a Type R. I’ll stick to used, at a fraction of the new cost.
I’d look at contract leasing over PCP if you really want a new car. The leasing firms get big discounts and they claim the taxes back thus they tend to be cheaper than PCP, and at the end of the term you’re in the same position, simply hand it back. It’s only an issue if you want to buy it afterwards.
Edited by SLO76 on 03/06/2023 at 14:20
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That we’re discussing £36,000 being “not too bad” for a small family hatchback surprises me. I couldn’t even imagine spending so much on a Civic, even a Type R. I’ll stick to used, at a fraction of the new cost. I’d look at contract leasing over PCP if you really want a new car. The leasing firms get big discounts and they claim the taxes back thus they tend to be cheaper than PCP, and at the end of the term you’re in the same position, simply hand it back. It’s only an issue if you want to buy it afterwards.
Sorry SLO but the new Civics are hardly small are they? And if you've got the money then why not?
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If my post suggested £36000 was not expensive for a family hatchback then I apologise. I was really commenting on the base model (which isn't available anymore). At £31000, this seemed reasonable considering the powetrain technology and performance. You could say the same about a BMW 1 series where even a reasonably low spec model is on a price par with the top spec Civic.
Edited by davecooper on 03/06/2023 at 15:58
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I would choose the Honda rather than the BMW. It’s one of those interesting dilemmas. Do you go for the top spec cheaper car, or the bottom spec from a (allegedly) premium brand?
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I would choose the Honda rather than the BMW. It’s one of those interesting dilemmas. Do you go for the top spec cheaper car, or the bottom spec from a (allegedly) premium brand?
Seems OK initially but the top spec cars tend to loose more value as so called Extras count for little extra value in the second hand market. A basic BMW might have all you desire extra wise and there is nothing cheap on a BMW as they always attract good money. My choice any day over cars from the far east. Hondas are not as cheap to run as some try to make out. Few cars these days are lacking in basic kit. I always buy second hand no waiting months on false promises when a car might be delivered. Neighbours new Corolla is 5 months overdue and still no sign, fed up of asking her. Meanwhile her diesel A3 soldiers on and will be a good buy for someone
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If my post suggested £36000 was not expensive for a family hatchback then I apologise. I was really commenting on the base model (which isn't available anymore). At £31000, this seemed reasonable considering the powetrain technology and performance. You could say the same about a BMW 1 series where even a reasonably low spec model is on a price par with the top spec Civic.
No offence taken at all, I’m just stating my opinion that all of todays cars are ludicrously overpriced. Largely due to government interference in development (forcing EV and hybrid tech on us) and in the huge reduction in competition that has occurred in recent years with firms either leaving the UK market, reducing their presence or being bought up by rivals. We see this most obviously in the small van market with Peugeot now building vans with Fiat, Toyota, Vauxhall and Citroen badges, wiping out swathes of competition and forcing prices upward.
I’m not prepared to take part in the madness and will continue to buy once the used market has given these overpriced cars a proper kicking. Swmbo’s 3yr old 31,000 mile Nissan Leaf has a daft list price of £29,845 today, yet she paid at 3yrs old and in near spotless condition £13,600. Now you have ask what the previous owner (private or fleet) got for it when they sold or traded it. That’s a massive loss even factoring in a decent discount.
Edited by SLO76 on 03/06/2023 at 21:49
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Sorry Paul but civics are small, a class smaller than the Accord, same as the Corrola to Camry, or Focus to Mondeo.
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Sorry Paul but civics are small, a class smaller than the Accord, same as the Corrola to Camry, or Focus to Mondeo.
The Civic is only a small car compared to most of the cars on the road these days, and only as it is considered to be in the same class as the Golf (when it is nearly a foot longer). Remember the Skoda Octavia was also originally based on the Golf platform, always bigger than its competition, but it got to the point Skoda saw fit to introduce an extra model to bridge the gap between Fabia and Octavia, originally the Rapid/Rapid Spaceback, now the Scala. Although not as big as the Octavia, the Civic is closer in size to it the than the Golf.
And compared to our Suzuki Ignis the Civic is massive!
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“ Sorry SLO but the new Civics are hardly small are they? And if you've got the money then why not?”
It’s certainly the biggest Civic to date, it’ll be bigger than some previous Accord variants. And yes, if you have the means and can afford the hefty depreciation suffered by todays overpriced cars then you could do far worse. I’m sure it’ll be utterly reliable and by all accounts it’s a good drive for a hybrid. I’d certainly consider one when the trade reset its value to a more realistic level. I’d predict it’ll lose at least £20k in the first three years, wiping out any sort of fuel saving.
I’m a big fan of the Civic over the years, I’ve sold loads of them and owned a few. The only times I’d say they got it wrong was the horrid I-drive automated manual and the belt in oil bath 1.0 3cyl that costs a ludicrous £1700 or so to change the timing belt. A bad design.
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I’d predict it’ll lose at least £20k in the first three years, wiping out any sort of fuel saving.
I hope you are right about the used market reset SLO and logic would tell you that it will be the case in the end; though with the state the world is in I suspect that may be further out than we would usually expect in the decline/recovery cycle.
My experience with the cancelled Civic order may turn out to be a blessing for me in the end as I strongly suspect that my next car change (probably when the Rorolla is 3 or 4 years old, maybe 5) will be my last. At that point I'll look at options and hope your estimate of depreciation for a 3 year old model is right :-).
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Had a look at used Civics. 22 plate Sport 7000 miles £35000 and there are plenty of people asking £38000 plus for used Civics. They are taking the p***. That car won't be happening for me for a long time. Actually considering buying my current car at the end of the lease and just let the mad car market sort itself out, if it ever does. It will be nice not having to worry about that end of lease new car dilemma.
Edited by davecooper on 05/06/2023 at 10:13
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I’d certainly ask for a price, but remember you’ll need to get someone to buy it on your behalf as leasing firms can’t sell direct to the leaseholder for tax reasons. I wish I’d bought our Honda CRV that I leased a few years back, they wanted £11,200 for it at a time when an equivalent example would be around £12-£12.5k from a dealer and I thought it was too much money considering it needed two tyres and a service. But after months of looking I couldn’t find a good used one anywhere. In order to buy it I needed a friend to buy it on my behalf then I’d transfer ownership which meant another name on the V5.
If the price is reasonable I’d buy it, new car prices are insane and the only way to combat it is not to partake. It’s supply and demand, if people stop buying then prices will fall. Buy your Mazda and look after it, it’ll last a long long time and offer driver enjoyment you won’t find at the helm of a hybrid. There’s no reason why it wouldn’t be offering the same reliability I get from my 13yr old 100k plus Toyota Avensis and you’ll have a load of money in the bank to spend on more worthy things like holidays.
I was just looking at my mothers 2009 Honda Jazz and brothers 2009 Nissan Note. Both are utterly reliable, great on fuel and drive without fault. The Jazz is showing its age a bit now but the Note is absolutely immaculate, it was a steal at £1,900 a year and a half ago. New cars are an appallingly bad investment, they plummet in value. Swmbo’s 3yr old Nissan Leaf wasn’t bad value compared to silly showroom prices either. I’d sooner have that at £13,600 than a £36,000 Honda Civic.
Edited by SLO76 on 05/06/2023 at 18:22
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