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Tell your 'friend ' to take the points and fine, far less painful than the course, I had the dubious pleasure of taking one last year (35 in a 30..tut tut...) , it was utterly mind numbingly pointless, the guy taking the course spent 95% of the time trying to hit on the 2 women present and refused to believe that anti lock brakes prevented wheels from locking up ( t*** even threatened to remove me from the course!).
To make matters worse the company involved sold my details on, been inundated with spam emails ever since...
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Tell your 'friend ' to take the points and fine, far less painful than the course, I had the dubious pleasure of taking one last year (35 in a 30..tut tut...) , it was utterly mind numbingly pointless, the guy taking the course spent 95% of the time trying to hit on the 2 women present.
Ditto, but no ladies present that any of us would have tried to hit on, We were all too busy trying to look vaguely interested.
Our "Off duty" plod was upset when I pointed out the "dangerous" dual carriageway with twisty bits and crossings over yhe median was actually the A449 north of wolverhampton up to the roundabout where it meets the A5, just west of J13 of the M6.
How do you Know???
Because I used to drive it regularly and the signs are there A5 and turn right for M6.
Doh.
I hereby promise, if I get another offer, I'll take the points !!!
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As to the courses I've done two in the last ten years; one in person and the other on line. I found them interesting and, both times learned something.
Regarding Mrs Braverman I think it's fact dependent.
She shouldn't be asking her staff to do stuff for her personal gain or advantage. If she asked a staff member whether an individual course was possible an was either told it was inappropriate or the answer was 'No Minister' then no offence.
If she got insistent in the style made infamous by Raab and somebody was instructed she's on much thinner ice.
The question of whether individual courses could be made to work and offered is interesting. Not necessarily only for the sensitivity of people in the public eye but it might it be a reasonable adjustment for a disability?
EDIT: link to a report that a private course is possible:
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/suella-brav...l
Whether they're available to people who cannot afford Nick Freeman's hourly rate is another matter.
Edited by Bromptonaut on 22/05/2023 at 21:56
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"""Tell your 'friend ' to take the points and fine, far less painful than the course, I had the dubious pleasure of taking one last year (35 in a 30..tut tut...) , it was utterly mind numbingly pointless, the guy taking the course spent 95% of the time trying to hit on the 2 women present."""
Sorry I cannot agree with this logic. From an Insurance point of view its going to cost you and having to declare for 3 years must be a pain. If you take the course you still get a fine or pay for the course? I have not been on a course and had 3 points long before the courses were offered. For my part courses are another money spinner. The vast majority of people caught speeding are you and I minding our own business and do not need re-educating as someone put it, straying over the signed limit. The mway limit is largely not adhered to with 70 to 80 being more the norm
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Sorry I cannot agree with this logic. From an Insurance point of view its going to cost you and having to declare for 3 years must be a pain. If you take the course you still get a fine or pay for the course?
You pay for the course. The cost is usually about the same as the fine.
Obviously, in the era in which we live, the providers are commercial outfits. If they don't turn a profit they fail.
I went on one in 2016 after missing a turn in Plymouth en route to my Daughter's place. I knew we turned right at a particular junction but Mrs B knew better. In the ensuing 'cross words' I was over the 30 limit.
The term re-education is resonant of the USSR and or Mao. Nothing like that. Atmosphere was of a work training event. Probably 30 of us seated Cabaret Style in groups of five in the sirt of hotel space set aside for this purpose. Decent coffee and nice biscuits. Mix of tutoring from the front, group work etc.Genuinely came away feeling I'd improved myself as a driver.
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"""Tell your 'friend ' to take the points and fine, far less painful than the course, I had the dubious pleasure of taking one last year (35 in a 30..tut tut...) , it was utterly mind numbingly pointless, the guy taking the course spent 95% of the time trying to hit on the 2 women present."""
Sorry I cannot agree with this logic. From an Insurance point of view its going to cost you and having to declare for 3 years must be a pain. If you take the course you still get a fine or pay for the course? I have not been on a course and had 3 points long before the courses were offered. For my part courses are another money spinner. The vast majority of people caught speeding are you and I minding our own business and do not need re-educating as someone put it, straying over the signed limit. The mway limit is largely not adhered to with 70 to 80 being more the norm yes but illegal
If you live in Wales legislation is going ahead for blanket 20mph. The signs are going up and covered for now. I believe the start date is 17Sept. The police have stated they are not interested in policing it but there is the hated Safety Partnership with there craftly located cameras. Can you imagine crossing the city of Cardiiff some 12 miles at 20mph! Can only think pollution will increase but that might be orchestrated as another push to EVs. Whatever the motorist is unwanted in Wales save for all the taxes they generate. I keep reading that EVs will not oust ICE before 2030 because the charging network is far off target.
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If you live in Wales legislation is going ahead for blanket 20mph. The signs are going up and covered for now. I believe the start date is 17Sept. The police have stated they are not interested in policing it but there is the hated Safety Partnership with there craftly located cameras. Can you imagine crossing the city of Cardiiff some 12 miles at 20mph! Can only think pollution will increase but that might be orchestrated as another push to EVs. Whatever the motorist is unwanted in Wales save for all the taxes they generate. I keep reading that EVs will not oust ICE before 2030 because the charging network is far off target.
I think, broadly speaking, it's 20 in place of 30. Plenty of that in London. Like 50 on the motorway while there are works, the effect on end to end journey times is minimal.
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If you live in Wales legislation is going ahead for blanket 20mph. The signs are going up and covered for now. I believe the start date is 17Sept. The police have stated they are not interested in policing it but there is the hated Safety Partnership with there craftly located cameras. Can you imagine crossing the city of Cardiiff some 12 miles at 20mph! Can only think pollution will increase but that might be orchestrated as another push to EVs. Whatever the motorist is unwanted in Wales save for all the taxes they generate. I keep reading that EVs will not oust ICE before 2030 because the charging network is far off target.
I think, broadly speaking, it's 20 in place of 30. Plenty of that in London. Like 50 on the motorway while there are works, the effect on end to end journey times is minimal.
Problem that I see with 20mph is it will become 15 mph with the odd motorist terrified of getting caught speeding. A real danger of a driver getting bored and inattentive at slower speeds. We shall see. Average speed in some parts of London is something below 7mph no need for Wales to contemplate that. Whatever the reason with the braking distance of cars these days common sense has gone out of the window and our leader has secured his doubtful place in history,
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"... with the braking distance of cars these days common sense has gone out of the window..."
You seem to have forgotten that driving at 20 mph (a) reduces fuel consumption (and therefore exhaust emissions) and (b) reduces particle emissions from brakes and tyres.
So it's little to do with stopping distances.
Edited by FP on 23/05/2023 at 10:10
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You seem to have forgotten that driving at 20 mph (a) reduces fuel consumption (and therefore exhaust emissions)
I would like to see convincing proof of this - it probably only applies to an EV. Maintaining 20mph max in a conventional car means a lower gear, thus more revs per metre, and each vehicle spends more time polluting any given length of road (all this assuming that the set limit can be reached and kept).
Lower speeds reducing consumption only applies when wind and rolling resistance are significant factors.
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"... with the braking distance of cars these days common sense has gone out of the window..."
You seem to have forgotten that driving at 20 mph (a) reduces fuel consumption (and therefore exhaust emissions) and (b) reduces particle emissions from brakes and tyres.
So it's little to do with stopping distances.
The main idea of the 20mph in Wales is said to be saving lives. So the quicker you can stop a vehicle at any speed has to be a good thing. Braking distances are nothing like they have been quoted for donkey years in the Highway Code but the thinking distance will be the same.
In an ice vehicle the optimum speed for fuel efficiency will be well above 20mph and a constant speed is desirable as being the most efficient. IN figures the so called urban cycle is always quoted as the lowest figure by some margin. If an ICE car only driven in a 20 mph zone I would suggest a very high fuel consumption and would be detrimental to the engine over a sustained period IMO.
As a matter of interest when I was out today and the road was quiet I drove at 20mph for some quarter of a mile. It really felt like you could walk quicker a bit like coming of the motorway having done 70 for 10s of miles. The car would not sustain top gear even when asked with the paddles
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The main idea of the 20mph in Wales is said to be saving lives. So the quicker you can stop a vehicle at any speed has to be a good thing. Braking distances are nothing like they have been quoted for donkey years in the Highway Code but the thinking distance will be the same.
If you're hit by a car doing 20 you'll likely survive. If it's doing 40 you'll be dead or very seriously injured.
In an ice vehicle the optimum speed for fuel efficiency will be well above 20mph and a constant speed is desirable as being the most efficient. IN figures the so called urban cycle is always quoted as the lowest figure by some margin. If an ICE car only driven in a 20 mph zone I would suggest a very high fuel consumption and would be detrimental to the engine over a sustained period IMO.
The so called urban cycle i think reflects stop/start which in either of my recent cars kills mileage. A steady 20, in the right gear which will be 2 or just possibly 3 but certainly not top, might actually be better for fuel and therefore emissions then going all the way to 30 and back again. Nothing either of our cars shows in 20, whether for a mile or two in London or the length of the High Street here, suggests fuel consumption radically different to 30.
Coming off a fast M/way onto 30 almost feels like walking too. I remember my Dad pointing it out 50+ years ago in the days when the M1 wasn't contiuous...
As a matter of interest when I was out today and the road was quiet I drove at 20mph for some quarter of a mile. It really felt like you could walk quicker a bit like coming of the motorway having done 70 for 10s of miles. The car would not sustain top gear even when asked with the paddles
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The car would not sustain top gear even when asked with the paddles
Did you think that was a reasonable ask? I think they are saying top gear is unsuitable for residential areas:)
In my 6 speed MX-5, the only manual in the household, I know the gear if it's flat when I see the speed limit sign. 40 is 5th, 30 is 4th, 20 is 3rd. In practice 6th is rarely called upon unless cruising at 50+
MPH/100rpm:
1st 4.8
2nd 8.2
3rd 12.1
4th 15.4
5th 19.1
6th 24.6
At 20 in 6th it would be using 800rpm, which is tickover.
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"""The car would not sustain top gear even when asked with the paddles
Did you think that was a reasonable ask? I think they are saying top gear is unsuitable for residential areas:)
Do you therefore think that driving a car at 20 mph in obvious low gears is going to produce more emissions and have a higher fuel consumption. My experience of driving in lower gears is that the engine is acting as a brake on the car and the heavier the car the more detrimental it is. My MINI will take higher gears at 30 than 20 and keep it.
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Do you therefore think that driving a car at 20 mph in obvious low gears is going to produce more emissions and have a higher fuel consumption. My experience of driving in lower gears is that the engine is acting as a brake on the car and the heavier the car the more detrimental it is. My MINI will take higher gears at 30 than 20 and keep it.
I've been driving for approaching 50 years and genuinely don't understand what you're saying.
Sure, if feet are off the accelerator and the transmission is in low then the effect of compressing air acts as to slow the car. That's what we mean by engine braking. We're taught to use it rather than risk overheating the brakes on long or steep descents.
On the other hand, if you're in second and floor it the car will be off like a scalded cat. That's why we go down a gear, or kickdown in an automatic, when overtaking.
I taught my kids, driving old fashioned IDI diesels, to keep an eye on the rev counter to keep reves between 2k and 3k. Likened it to using a push bike's gears to keep a good pedal cadence; around 70 rotations a minute - more if you're fit.
Is that massively wrong?
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Do you therefore think that driving a car at 20 mph in obvious low gears is going to produce more emissions and have a higher fuel consumption. My experience of driving in lower gears is that the engine is acting as a brake on the car and the heavier the car the more detrimental it is. My MINI will take higher gears at 30 than 20 and keep it.
I've been driving for approaching 50 years and genuinely don't understand what you're saying.
Sure, if feet are off the accelerator and the transmission is in low then the effect of compressing air acts as to slow the car. That's what we mean by engine braking. We're taught to use it rather than risk overheating the brakes on long or steep descents.
On the other hand, if you're in second and floor it the car will be off like a scalded cat. That's why we go down a gear, or kickdown in an automatic, when overtaking.
I taught my kids, driving old fashioned IDI diesels, to keep an eye on the rev counter to keep reves between 2k and 3k. Likened it to using a push bike's gears to keep a good pedal cadence; around 70 rotations a minute - more if you're fit.
Is that massively wrong?
Driving on a rev counter is a waste of time certainly with an auto. Better to keep your eye on the road and if you know your car you know what the engine is doing. I thought we are talking about driving at 20mph.
If you are in a low gear as you would be doing 20 and you lift off the braking of the engine is very pronounced and more fuel will be used.
The effect of lifting off in top gear is such that the car coasts and hardly any engine braking Elementary for me.
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Driving on a rev counter is a waste of time certainly with an auto. Better to keep your eye on the road and if you know your car you know what the engine is doing. I thought we are talking about driving at 20mph.
I doubt I've driven more than a couple of thousand miles in autos and then there's a difference between TC, CVT and VW etc type automated manuals. The detail is outwith my experience although I'd be surprised if, going down Wrynose and with no throttle they didn't provide some retardation. On a TC box like my Dad's car had in the seventies, you could use the selector to hold a lower gear if necessary. Paddles probably provide a similar facility
In the post above, I was thinking of an XUD diesel with manual transmission and keeping the engine and speed in sync.
If you are in a low gear as you would be doing 20 and you lift off the braking of the engine is very pronounced and more fuel will be use
In a modern car there's next to no fuel flowing; the system cuts it off. The engine is just absorbing energy by compressing the air it draws in.
The effect of lifting off in top gear is such that the car coasts and hardly any engine braking Elementary for me.
Same fuel usage as above, zilch, but less braking effect.
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<< .... driving old fashioned IDI diesels, to keep an eye on the rev counter to keep reves between 2k and 3k. >>
If I did that with my 207 HDi I would not spend a lot of time in 5th, where 2000rpm is about 60mph indicated ! But with a diesel your ear tells you all you need to know.
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Problem that I see with 20mph is it will become 15 mph with the odd motorist terrified of getting caught speeding.
Yest they drive over the speed limit on the motorways
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Taking the course dose’s increase your insurance premium.
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Taking the course dose’s increase your insurance premium.
Depends on the insurer. Admiral group, which includes several other brands, were asking specifically about driver/speed awareness courses and loading premiums accordingly. Last time I checked I think they'd reverted to just asking about convictions but I might be wrong.
Neither Direct Line nor LV ask about courses.
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When I did a course in 2015 I thought it was good. It certainly refreshed my memory of the Highway Code. As the tutor said, how many even look at it once they've passed their test? He was a retired Policeman, seemed an interesting bloke when we had a chat in the coffee break. I would certainly do another in the future rather than taking the points but hope I don't need to. There's a lot of luck in these things.
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When asked what the major cause of accidents on our roads one attendee replied “ Women drivers “ .
Didnt go down too well!
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When asked what the major cause of accidents on our roads one attendee replied “ Women drivers “ .
Didnt go down too well!
You get some corkers. Both my wife and I were on courses where there was at least one van driver who didn't know that their van was subject to vehicle specific limits.
I'm a connoisseur, I've been on 3. Surprised they haven't offered me a loyalty card.
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I did one back in 2017 had to buy our own tea and biscuits…
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It is possible to do an on-line speed awareness course (with others taking part), so the minister could have opted for one, without the need to un-necessarily physically mix with people.
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Talking of speeding,
A police officer told me the camera vans now in use around Norfolk can capture speed and a clear picture 1/2 mile away on a straight piece of road. He said some forces claim it’s 1 mile but it’s more like half a mile which is still plenty of time to catch speeders before they spot the van.
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It is possible to do an on-line speed awareness course (with others taking part), so the minister could have opted for one, without the need to un-necessarily physically mix with people.
They could have done - but they did not want to be seen by other people and you have to be seen and speak when doing online courses.
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It is possible to do an on-line speed awareness course (with others taking part), so the minister could have opted for one, without the need to un-necessarily physically mix with people.
They could have done - but they did not want to be seen by other people and you have to be seen and speak when doing online courses.
They could wear a mask to hide their identity. ;-)
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It is possible to do an on-line speed awareness course (with others taking part), so the minister could have opted for one, without the need to un-necessarily physically mix with people.
They could have done - but they did not want to be seen by other people and you have to be seen and speak when doing online courses.
They could wear a mask to hide their identity. ;-)
Only Batman is allowed that!
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It is possible to do an on-line speed awareness course (with others taking part), so the minister could have opted for one, without the need to un-necessarily physically mix with people.
They could have done - but they did not want to be seen by other people and you have to be seen and speak when doing online courses.
They could wear a mask to hide their identity. ;-)
Only Batman is allowed that!
I think Spiderman might something to say about that.
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