I have driven the Captur PHEV and the Fabia (although manual).

The Captur was a bit of a revelation. Very comfortable and drove much better than I thought it would. The interface between the electric and ICE motors was a lot better than the Seat and Jeep options I tried, although the ICE is a little gruff (it's an old NA 1.6 unit). All something to do with the 'formula one style' dog box apparently. Whatever, it seems to work. Interior is nice and seats are good. The boot is small, especially in the PHEV, and there is a fair bit of wind noise from the wing mirrors over 50mph.

The Fabia I had as a courtesy car and my experience may have been tainted by it being dirty when I got it (it stank). The engine was pretty spritely and it drove OK, but the whole thing felt very cheap and lightweight to me.

If you've not driven a DCT I suggest you give it a go. I hated it in my golf because it was so hesitant to get going. Apparently, that was because I had the auto hold turned on. I don't have that button in my Karoq and it's absolutely fine. On the move, they're very smooth. The Kia one that I tried (in the Sportage) wasn't nearly as good as the VW one and neither were close to whatever (presumably rather fragile) magic was in the Renault

Thanks for that Adampr.

I have read that the 1.6 used by Renault on the hybrids is one they use in places like Russia and various South American countries due to its hardy nature and the ability to run on fuels of a lower quality!.

Is the box on your Karoq the dry clutch version?

Nice selection BBD, maybe test drive a couple, love to know what you think of the Zoe if you get a drive in one, I honestly think once you've driven a full electric or even some form of hybrid you won't go back to a 'normal' ice.

As you may remember I currently have a mild hybrid Vitara and even after 18 months it still makes me smile when I feel the electric giving a helping hand.

Edit: maybe take dad along to see how he gets on etc?

Edited by paul 1963 on 13/04/2023 at 21:29

Having driven various Zoes over the last 3 years, they are very easy to use and in mild weather (12oC+) the range when driven sensibly in mixed urban driving is a realistic 180-200 miles.

If you were to drive it regularly on motorways or fast dual caariageways that will drop considerably. Typical cold Scottish winter weather will see the range reduce easily by a third or more.

It has sensible tyres which should make for a nice soft ride but the weight of the batteries makes it feel quite brittle at times on rough surfaces (potholed roads!).

The controls are all light and easy to use. The regen braking is a nice thing to use but does not stop the car completely.

Intererstingly, I drove by a Skoda Kamiq the other day and I am certain that i sat higher in the Zoe than the Kamiq's driver.

There isn't loads of leg room in the back unless you are fairly short.

The driver's seat does not adjust at all for height which I found frustrating.

As my first proper electric car to drive, I was impressed with them overall.

Edited by groaver on 13/04/2023 at 21:23

BBD, If your good lady has any spinal problems, (as youngrovergirl) the seats on the stonic are dire. That's why it went after 6 weeks.

Go for the Captur PHEV and ignore the home charging.

Fabia seating position is low.

Edited by _ORB_ on 14/04/2023 at 07:52

So many people here hate the DSG gearbox .... they either say it doesn't drive smoothly or predictably or dismiss it because of the reliability issues (and, in some cases, I suspect, voice these doubts without driving one or, heaven forbid, owning one).

And you know what's coming next ..... yes I have one, and have owned it since 2011, which makes it one of the more 'prone to problems' examples. It's a Skoda dry clutch 7 speed DQ200.

Having driven single clutch transmissions like the VW UP had as an option and owning a torque converter Hyundai as I do and having owned a CVT Jazz as I did I reckon my experience is as valid as the next blokes.

A recent, regrettable, minor encounter with the pointy shoes in the local VW showroom did irritate me quite a lot but that doesn't really reflect on the experience of driving a DCT equipped car and it shouldn't stop me from buying another, DSG eqipped car after all the Seat and Skoda and VW all have much the same gearboxes.

I haven't driven a Kia DCT so can't comment but can't imagine it's an horrendous experience but if long term reliablity or service issues aren't a particular concern due to it being on a contract rather than personally owned then I, personally, would think it would be mistake to disregard a DSG.

Assuming you will be climbing that kerb fairly regularly, if you are like me and stop, angle the tyre and then proceed slowly,

Yes, that is how I'd approach it.

a dual clutch is going to be quite unhappy. It might not matter in short term ownership re long term reliability, but just from a driving perspective I found DSGs really unpleasant to use in low speed, high load situations, a grindy sensation if that makes sense.

On mild hybrid versions, AFAIK the electric motor helps on low speed manoeuvres, so maybe the Bayon would be fine too. As much as I' ve grown to dislike the single clutch AGS in the Ignis, it is actually fine easing up on to the kerb.

Nice selection BBD, maybe test drive a couple, love to know what you think of the Zoe if you get a drive in one, I honestly think once you've driven a full electric or even some form of hybrid you won't go back to a 'normal' ice.

As you may remember I currently have a mild hybrid Vitara and even after 18 months it still makes me smile when I feel the electric giving a helping hand.

Edit: maybe take dad along to see how he gets on etc?

If I get as far as a test drive on the Zoe, I will certainly give my thoughts on it. When I was looking at video reviews on the Clio E Tech, I was taken by just how much extra torque the electric motors give, way more than the ICE engine provides on its own!. And yes, the plan would be to take my Dad along (my wife says if he can get out of the car OK, she will be able to!) certainly re the Clio.

Having driven various Zoes over the last 3 years, they are very easy to use and in mild weather (12oC+) the range when driven sensibly in mixed urban driving is a realistic 180-200 miles.

If you were to drive it regularly on motorways or fast dual caariageways that will drop considerably. Typical cold Scottish winter weather will see the range reduce easily by a third or more.

Yeah not the kind of usage I'd be doing, mainly just local running around with some trips to my folks about 30 miles away on single carriageway A and B roads. If I go to Glasgow to see my son, that would need a bit more planning though it shouldn't be too taxing with the boost charge. Having driven various Zoes over the last 3 years, they are very easy to use and in mild weather (12oC+) the range when driven sensibly in mixed urban driving is a realistic 180-200 miles.

I remember the original reviews for that car and its sister from Hyundai, and it said that the ride was quite firm generally. Not sure which wheel and tyre combo the Motability version has, but I remember on other KIA/Hyundai reviews, especially for the more recent i30s/Ceeds, that it ran far smoother on 16in rims (probably the 'standard' 205/55 R16 they've used before) than 18in ones.

Normally I'd expect the overall circumference of the tyres on a particular model of car are much and such the same, just that lower spec cars have smaller wheels with higher profile and the opposite on higher spec. But with the Bayon and Stonic, the lower spec cars use 195/55 x 16 and the higher spec cars use 205/55 x 17. So weirdly, the higher spec cars have a slightly taller sidewall!

Whilst it’s almost definitely not optimal for access/egress, the Clio Hybrid drives really nicely.
Because it’s a four speed gearbox, if you listen closely you can hear it changing up and down and it does away with the sometimes ‘white noise’ of the ICE in a hybrid which simulates the effect of a CVT.

And I think it’s a good looking thing.

It actually has 6 gears according to the Renault website, and yes I agree a good looking machine!. Not much use if it causes Dad big problems getting out though, will need to get him along to the dealer to try.

BBD, If your good lady has any spinal problems, (as youngrovergirl) the seats on the stonic are dire. That's why it went after 6 weeks.

No spine issues specifically, more the hips and legs in general. But the concern is that you didn't discover how uncomfortable the seats were initially, so presumably they felt OK in the showroom. And with there being a fairly high chance of the Bayon using the same basic seat (albeit with different material), that is a bit of a worry.

Go for the Captur PHEV and ignore the home charging.

My concern with going for the PHEV is how effective the hybrid system would be without being plugged in to fully charge?. The self charge version has a much smaller battery designed to quickly charge up and discharge, particularly in an urban environment. What would be good to hear is if someone has a PHEV (Skidpan?) and has experience of how it works away from the ability to plug it in. It may be that it is just as effective, but never takes on (through brake regen) more power than the self charge does?. If so, the PHEV version could tick all the boxes!.

Can we assume all your shortlisted cars have electric folding mirrors as standard?

Some do but some don't. It is certainly a feature I'd like (same for heated steering wheel), but not a deal breaker!.

My parents have a motobility car. In the past they have successfully extended the lease of the car. If you really want another Suzuki you could see if they would extend your current car by 6 months.

But of course the suzuki may or may not be available then.

Yeah, as much as I like the Ignis n terms of space, design, lightness, efficiency and nippiness, the AGS transmission is something I've really grown to dislike over the last 3 years!. If we'd got into a facelift Ignis (the auto version of which uses a CVT, and came out literally right after we got ours!), I'm sure i would be quite keen to go down that route.

Not sure why, but neither Ignis or Swift has featured on the Motability list these past 3 quarters at least.

I'd concentrate more on the ride comfort (tyre sidewall height and ability to mount the kerb ok without damage), reliability and ergonomics/usage needs than price.

Yeah, I would but unfortunately the simple act of going for an auto over a manual, usually means a higher spec whether you want it or not!. In some cases like the Vauxhall Crossland, while lower spec autos can be had, they don't feature on the Motability list, only the top spec Ultimate. 'Best' tyres on my listed cars are the 215/60 x 17's on the Captur and C-HR, with probably the 185/65 x 15's of the Fabia next.

Shame the car only comes with the DCT box - I thought that Ford had dropped it generally, or is this car a second hand one over 3-4 years old?

When the 8th gen Fiesta first appeared in 2017, Ford had dropped the old Powershift DCT in favour of a t/c auto. But a new DCT has reappeared at the facelift (2022 I think) which brought MHEV to most of the range, could be those two things are linked?.

You might be able to swap out larger wheels and lower profile tyres for smaller diameter wheels and higher profile tyres for not too much (or nothing if new) if the brakes allow and the manufacturer has it as an 'official' alternative

Past experience suggests that while this may be possible through the dealer, Motability themselves are a bit funny when it comes to tyres. When we had our Jazz, I enquired as to whether it would be a problem for me to replace two of the tyres as they were down to 3mm and winter was approaching. They said if I did so, I'd be responsible for any future replacement tyres needed on any Motability car we had from then on?!. Of course hindsight is a great thing, and I should have just replaced the tyres and not said anything!.

So many people here hate the DSG gearbox .... they either say it doesn't drive smoothly or predictably or dismiss it because of the reliability issues (and, in some cases, I suspect, voice these doubts without driving one or, heaven forbid, owning one).

I'm not sure anyone on here hates the DSG, though they may well have a mistrust of them and be justifiably wary of buying a used example. But i'm not dismissing the DSG/DCT box (the fact that 5 of my shortlisted cars are so equipped should show that), just expressing doubts based on my own (possibly irrational) distrust of them along with reading the experience of others, through owners reviews, road tests and forum threads. Some years ago for example, a forum member posted of having taken a test drive of a new VW T-Cross 1.0 DSG 110. They said it was awful with delayed responses, hesitancy and never seeming to be in the right gear. Should I dismiss that persons experience outright just because yours is different?.

Based on my own experience, what I'd like is a car which combined the sublime CVT of our 2017 Jazz, but with a more torquey engine!. I'd have that above a DCT or T/C.

For the Stonic, it was the back problems for YRG, but me more the hips knees and ankles, felt my bum was on the ground. (but it did drive like a gokart.

Assuming it’s the Clio E-Tech Hybrid, it's definitely a four speed dog (non-synchromesh) gearbox. The smaller of the two electric motors spins up and synchronises the next gear for smooth changes. It’s no problem with a perceived lack of ratios as the electrical input smoothes out the torque delivery. The Captur non-plug in hybrid uses the same running gear.

I can only go by the Renault website. If you 'build' a Clio or Captur E Tech, at the bottom of the last page (Your summary) it gives all the technical details including, "Number of forward gears - 6"

Not really bothered though, as long as it works well!

I did watch a YT video clip of someone driving one in an urban environment, was getting somewhere along the lines of 85mpg.

I wondering BBD if there's any worth in considering small van-based cars such as the many the French manufacturers make? Practical, good visibility, makes good use of the car's footprint? Some may even have TC auto boxes. Maybe they also come shod on sensible tyres, given the 'van' links?

Just a thought.

All those type of vehicles are now electric only, Berlingo, combo etc....

I wondering BBD if there's any worth in considering small van-based cars such as the many the French manufacturers make? Practical, good visibility, makes good use of the car's footprint? Some may even have TC auto boxes. Maybe they also come shod on sensible tyres, given the 'van' links?

Just a thought.

All those type of vehicles are now electric only, Berlingo, combo etc....

There are electric versions of the Berlingo, Rifter and Combo Life, but the lowest advance payment is £3.5k (rising to £6k)

No (automatic, didn't check for manuals) Ford van based MPV's available and the only other option is the VW Caddy with a £4k advance payment.

The van based MPV's are horribly priced on Motability at the moment, when we got outs it oas on £0 advance payment - our own Vauxhall Combo Life is due to for replacement in October but as my wife's PIP runs out in March next year we will extend the contract until at least then and the see what is about. There are not many cars that allow for an electric wheelchair to be put into the boot (with the seats still up) via portable ramps.

The van based MPV's are horribly priced on Motability at the moment, when we got outs it oas on £0 advance payment - our own Vauxhall Combo Life is due to for replacement in October but as my wife's PIP runs out in March next year we will extend the contract until at least then and the see what is about. There are not many cars that allow for an electric wheelchair to be put into the boot (with the seats still up) via portable ramps.

Way back in 2002 we got a Peugeot Partner Combi, it was my wife's 2nd Motability car but the 1st after we got together (no advance payment). Brilliant thing as a family car, we could put the youngest son's pushchair in the boot without needing to fold it down!.

Have you considered an Aygo X, or just too small?

Yes, I have and yes, too small. Frustrating though because, while I say it is too small, it has pretty much exactly the same length and wheelbase as the Ignis. It is just that Toyota have really not put any effort into packaging the interior. Looking at pictures and video reviews, I actually find it baffling that the Ignis has so much more space for rear passengers within the same footprint. Yes, the Ignis is nearly 10cm taller, but it surely can't all be down to that?. When I think about the amazing use of space Toyota managed on the IQ, it saddens me to see how poorly packaged the Aygo X is. I do like its looks though.

My sons just bought a 1 year old Aygo, limited edition red black and white, lovely looking thing and plenty of kit but he admits it is a little tight in the back.

Loving this thread BBD, keep it up.

A few years ago we got a Citroen C1 (1.0) loan car when our Jazz had to go into the bodyshop. I absolutely loved it to drive, such an eager, happy little car. But it was clear that rear space was pretty tight in the back, even with the front seat set for my short legged 5'9" frame. That was excusable though, because they are such small cars. The Aygo X is 25cm longer, 12cm wider (admittedly most of that will be accounted for by the chunky arches) and 5cm taller than the old car, but seems to have no more rear seat space. Also, the rear doors are small and don't open very wide.

A couple of weeks ago my cousin came down to visit from the Shetland Isles, accompanied by one of her sons and her (massively obese) daughter. My cousin is about my height, son and daughter both 6', but we managed fine in the Ignis!.

My 50kwh Corsa did about 160 miles, 90% at 70mph, in winter.

Duplicate. Sorry.

Edited by Adampr on 24/04/2023 at 16:45

Triple post. New record!

Edited by Adampr on 24/04/2023 at 16:44

Are Motability still doing an included home charge box with a new EV (not that it’s relevant to you)?

Yes, they are. But for folk like myself unable to charge at home, you get membership to all the main public charge point operators. I haven't looked into it in detail, maybe Motability users get a discount?

My wife was wondering if we could get the charging point installed at her Mum's just along the road. I haven't looked into it, but I think it unlikely they would fit the charger anywhere other than the benefit recipients address.

Thanks for the review BBD, most interesting, like your description of the acceleration, exactly the way I first felt.

I guess only you will know how often you would have to have two big lads in the back, not sure it would worry me that much tbh, I agree with your conclusion about the range.

Maybe a call to motobility to see where you stand regarding charging and having a charger fitted remotely.

Thought I should wrap this up since the decision has been made and the car ordered.

Arranged to go into Aberdeen with my Dad and got to Vauxhall dealer first. The Crossland would be the best choice for our needs out of the models available on Motability, but the waiting time would be around a year!. That and the £450 advance payment put it out of the running.

But I'd also been contemplating the Mokka because of the more favourable £99 advance payment, so we had a look and a test drive. The test drive (manual gearbox) was fine, i was very impressed with its refinement (though the one we drove had 17" wheels whereas the one we'd get would have 18"). Space (in the rear) was actually better than I expected from what I'd read and the boot was perfectly adequate for our needs. Seat height was OK for my Dad, but the height of the sills was a bit of a problem, both getting in and out.

While we were there I mentioned to the salesman that one of the other cars we were going to have a look at was the Seat Arona. He said that Seat Arona waiting lists are apparently very long (more than a year) and that they'd had quite a few customers who'd came to Vauxhall having cancelled their Seat order.

So we went to look at the Hyundai Bayon next, thinking I'd decide whether to go and see the Arona depending on how we liked the Bayon. First had a look at the one in the showroom where my Dad reckoned the seat was lower than the Mokka, but the lower sill height made it slightly easier overall (though definitely not as easy as our Ignis). With the front seat set for my height, there was slightly more space in the rear than the Mokka and the boot was also a little bigger. Adjustable boot floor meant more or less flat load area (also the case in the Mokka) with seats folded. Had a test drive (manual gearbox again) and was happy enough with it. The three cylinder thrum was more evident under acceleration than the Mokka but I actually liked that (as did Dad)!. Once at a settled cruise, it was as quiet as the Mokka.

Decided that I was happy with the Bayon so went back in with my wife a few days later to order. Despite the (young) salesman initially saying around a four month wait when I was with my Dad, a more senior sales who was helping him (as ours was his first Motability order) said it could be as late as December. Apparently it may come earlier, but they don't want to say it will and then it doesn't. But that seems par for the course from what we'd been told (the Vauxhall guy said Jan for the Mokka).

So just have to sit back and wait now..............

:-)