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Daihatsu Skywing - Turn Indicator Circuit and LED Substitution? - edlithgow

I'll be heading back to Taiwan soon, and (assuming it hasn't been towed) will have to get the car through its overdue 6-monthly inspection sharpish.

IIRC (don't have my notes here) I have 2/3 indicator lights (It has front, rear and side indicators) on each side working, with the circuit dead for the non-working light.

The wiring loom probably needs replaced (multiple issues) but I'm thinking that, as a work around for the turn indicators, I could run three LEDs (plus a resistor as necessary) in series off each working circuit, to give me two working lights in each location.

Any forseeable issues with this, apart from the hassle of actually doing it?

Daihatsu Skywing - Turn Indicator Circuit and LED Substitution? - bathtub tom

Is your flasher relay the old bi-metallic strip type? If so, they're dependant on the current drawn by an incandescent bulb and I doubt if LEDs would work.

Daihatsu Skywing - Turn Indicator Circuit and LED Substitution? - elekie&a/c doctor
I’ve converted various classics to led indicators and have used specific led flasher units . Readily available on the Bay . 1 led per corner is unlikely to work correctly.
Daihatsu Skywing - Turn Indicator Circuit and LED Substitution? - edlithgow

Is your flasher relay the old bi-metallic strip type? If so, they're dependant on the current drawn by an incandescent bulb and I doubt if LEDs would work.

Hence the (half-baked?) idea of using a resistor in series with the three LEDs to get current draw in the right ball park.

Flasher appears to have a timing chip in it, assuming the Charade circuit diagram I have of the flasher "black box" is applicable.

Edited by edlithgow on 04/12/2022 at 14:46

Daihatsu Skywing - Turn Indicator Circuit and LED Substitution? - Bolt

Is your flasher relay the old bi-metallic strip type? If so, they're dependant on the current drawn by an incandescent bulb and I doubt if LEDs would work.

Hence the (half-baked?) idea of using a resistor in series with the three LEDs to get current draw in the right ball park.

Flasher appears to have a timing chip in it, assuming the Charade circuit diagram I have of the flasher "black box" is applicable.

382 P21W LED bulbs for Cars, Vans and Motorcycles (autobulbsdirect.co.uk)

these people do led bulbs that are direct replacements without resistors but not sure if they do yours but possibly worth a look

Daihatsu Skywing - Turn Indicator Circuit and LED Substitution? - edlithgow

Is your flasher relay the old bi-metallic strip type? If so, they're dependant on the current drawn by an incandescent bulb and I doubt if LEDs would work.

Hence the (half-baked?) idea of using a resistor in series with the three LEDs to get current draw in the right ball park.

Flasher appears to have a timing chip in it, assuming the Charade circuit diagram I have of the flasher "black box" is applicable.

382 P21W LED bulbs for Cars, Vans and Motorcycles (autobulbsdirect.co.uk)

these people do led bulbs that are direct replacements without resistors but not sure if they do yours but possibly worth a look

Thanks.

While that link might be useful in the future, the (half-baked?) idea here is to run three LED's in series off a remaining functional live wire (though I would probably earth to the body rather than go back to the earth wire)

Since IIRC I have two intact functional wires each side, I could perhaps do this twice, with 2 LEDs in each location, giving me more brightness and some redundancy.

I THINK, due to the lower current and voltage demands of smallish LEDs (IIRC they typically drop around 3 volts each?) I might be able to run 3 in series off a single wire, though I might still need a current limiting resistor.

A direct bulb-replacement LED probably wouldn't work in this scenario.

Daihatsu Skywing - Turn Indicator Circuit and LED Substitution? - edlithgow

How about these things, which are 12V?

amzn.eu/d/5JkQmfQ

cut-to-length, and apparently no external resistors required.

I'd guess, from the chaining capability, that the LEDs in the array must operate in parallel, so maybe adjusting resistance to fool the flasher without screwing the voltage up wont be practical.

Very cheap (were dirt cheap before Christmas)

Daihatsu Skywing - Turn Indicator Circuit and LED Substitution? - Crickleymal

You're going to have to do a lot of work to get those in place. It'd be far easier to get a replacement led bulb. You would still have to put a resistor in parallel with your strip LEDs to get the resistance down to that of a bulb for your indicator relay to work properly.

Daihatsu Skywing - Turn Indicator Circuit and LED Substitution? - edlithgow

You're going to have to do a lot of work to get those in place. It'd be far easier to get a replacement led bulb. You would still have to put a resistor in parallel with your strip LEDs to get the resistance down to that of a bulb for your indicator relay to work properly.

Fairly resigned to a bit of fiddling.

IIRC the original bulb holders on the wing indicators have already disintegrated. One of them has an old scrap LED strip in it like the one linked to, (found on the University dump) though its rather dim and orange.

The other has a few incandescent Christmas tree lights in it, seasonal or what? Both of them behind bicycle reflector housings, the original fitting having been sun-rotted. IIRC these were both working, after their fashion, when I left Taiwan.

The main indicators still have original fittings and bulbs.

The problem is I've lost 1/3 circuits, so I'm proposing running lights in series off the surviving circuits. I don't THINK this will be possible with 12V lights since the voltage drop will be too great. MIGHT be possible with LED's

Edited by edlithgow on 30/12/2022 at 09:50

Daihatsu Skywing - Turn Indicator Circuit and LED Substitution? - Bolt

How about these things, which are 12V?

amzn.eu/d/5JkQmfQ

cut-to-length, and apparently no external resistors required.

I'd guess, from the chaining capability, that the LEDs in the array must operate in parallel, so maybe adjusting resistance to fool the flasher without screwing the voltage up wont be practical.

Very cheap (were dirt cheap before Christmas)

Not much good, I bought one for a backlight in living room using there own adapter, over time parts about a foot or more changed colour whenever they felt like it, but because they were so cheap put in a shed, light is a mixture of colours over the length of tape which on occasion blink, it was meant to be daylight white light

only thing I found any good with them(not Amazon) are there ES/BC bulbs they last a long time imo....

Daihatsu Skywing - Turn Indicator Circuit and LED Substitution? - edlithgow

Fixing the lights seemed to go OK, though not quite finished.

4 out of 6 turn signals were out. 2 of them lacked a + supply (the wiring loom is pretty knackered) so I took power from neighboring lights by the crude expedient of trapping a thin wire in the plug.

One of them the bulb holder was corroded and no longer provided an earth, but there was a second earth wire to a tab on the bulb holder. I connected this tab to a wire wrapped round the bulb base, because that's the way the other one was, and it worked, but I dunno what the tab and second earth are really for, not having seen it before AFAIK. I doubt its meant to be a redundant system.

For the bike-reflector wing repeater, the bulb holder had disintegrated. I used a connector strip to arrange 4 small LED's (I think 3.3V 5ma) in series with a 200 ohm resistor, which worked on the bench but not on the car, presumably because the forward voltage wasn't achieved (though I suppose it might have been with the engine running). Removing one of the LED's got it working. When flashing, multimeter showed max of approx 2 mA with a 400 ohm resistor, approx 4 mA with a 200 ohm resistor, unalarming but probably less than the real max load.

LED substitution didn't seem to affect the flash rate

About knocking off time it stopped working. Battery voltage was only 11.86V, which is probably why. There's about a 3 Amp KOEO draw, and I have reason to suspect short(s) in the wiring loom, but that's another problem

Its currently a "hybrid" sort of lashup, with a mixture of the original incandescent bulbs, one 12V LED that I tried as a replacement to a badly silvered incandescent, because they didnt have any incandescents in the shop, and my home-made connector strip of LED's in one wing light. The other wing light, which is working so was left alone, has either a scrap section of 12V LED strip in it, or some old Christmas Tree incandescents, can't remember which.

Rather surprising its working at all, but I guess the flasher unit can't be very fussy. Hopefully it'll hold through inspection,

Edited by edlithgow on 02/02/2023 at 14:04

Daihatsu Skywing - Turn Indicator Circuit and LED Substitution? - edlithgow

3 LED’s still didn’t work with a freshly charged battery, presumably due to voltage drop in the dodgy wiring, since it did when jumpered directly. Worked with 2 so settled for that.

Fixed it in place (tricky) and put the lens on (fiddly). All done, last test showed still flashing.

Then I noticed the other side was too, albeit dimly. Didn’t notice this in earlier stages (in sunlight) but might not have, since I wasn’t looking for it.

Oo-er

Presumably a manifestation of a short, or my half baked LED substitutions have rendered the flasher leaky.

Not sure how to diagnose or fix that. Any suggestions?

I suppose they MIGHT not notice it. No one pays any attention to turn signals in Taiwan anyway.

Daihatsu Skywing - Turn Indicator Circuit and LED Substitution? - edlithgow

Current hypothesis/guess (after a cup of tea) is that an earth path on the RHS (perhaps that for the last (LED) light fitted) is shorted to the LHS live side. Disconnecting that light might then stop it doing it, as might giving it an alternative earth path.

So those are next moves in the floundering around

Daihatsu Skywing - Turn Indicator Circuit and LED Substitution? - edlithgow

No such luck. Disconnecting that LED light (and removing all the bulbs in the other RHS lights) had no effect on cross-flashing (sounds like cross-dressing with fewer clothes) or flash rate, except it perhaps seemed to get a bit brighter.

Might be a clue in the lack of rate change, since previously removing all bulbs would speed it up. This might suggest this is a recent development, though I dunno what caused it.

I suppose a serial reversal of everything I've done would be an approach.

Seems symmetrical, as you might expect, ie both sides flash when indicating L and R, but the indicated side is brighter.

Daihatsu Skywing - Turn Indicator Circuit and LED Substitution? - edlithgow

R sidelight lamp seemed to be shorting via its earth. Taking both + and earth from the lower front light via trapped wires seems to fix it, which is nice (though it creates a risk of another short within the connector plug, so it might be better to go for a new earth screw in the body nearby.)

I don't know what other issues might arise from this (or other) shorts. Could be the tip of the iceberg.

Edited by edlithgow on 03/02/2023 at 10:33

Daihatsu Skywing - Turn Indicator Circuit and LED Substitution? - edlithgow

RHS flashers weren't working again this morning, but waggling the last-worked-on sidelight brought them back. Most likely explanation seemed to be a short in the connector it was piggy backed on, so I gave it a separate E to an existing E screw in the body.

Worked again. Provisional huzzah (!)

BUT flashers are also supposed to work as always-on sidelights. I dunno how this separate fn is supposed to be achieved, but on the LHS it isn't being. This may not be new, since I havn't been testing for it up to now.

Back to the draining board.

Daihatsu Skywing - Turn Indicator Circuit and LED Substitution? - edlithgow

The hazard switch now works (didn't before I left). Activating this in the running light position gives a non flashing, but rather dim, running light on both sides.

That;s almost enough, but the inspection people may not agree.