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Makes no sense to me. So why don't Mazda just say to read the level when cold and change the max point on the dipstick?
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Makes no sense to me. So why don't Mazda just say to read the level when cold and change the max point on the dipstick?
Or even use one side for Cold and the other for Hot - as some of my older cars did.
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"Apologies everyone-apparantly you must only check Mazda cx3 oil from warm after temperature has reached normal…."
"any comments welcome??"
Yeah. That's what I said two days ago :)
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Apparently oil expands when warmer and will reveal a cold half way dipstick read to be reading full.
Just about everything expands when warm, but you won't be able to detect that with a dipstick. The sump expands too. The difference is that in a cold engine the oil has drained down; in a hot one much of it has yet to do so, which is why you have to wait - or always check under standard conditions when hot, as advised (but why, I'm not sure).
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So you are pouring cold oil into a hot engine and bring it up to the full mark. What happens when the cold oil heats up surely the oil level will expand above the full mark. The latter statement is as nutty as Mazda's procedure!!
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What difference in volume do you believe there is between hot and cold in a few litres of oil?
Not much.
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So you are pouring cold oil into a hot engine and bring it up to the full mark. What happens when the cold oil heats up surely the oil level will expand above the full mark. The latter statement is as nutty as Mazda's procedure!!
Your question is equally nutty. How much 'expansion' do you imagine occurring? Even if it was a serious fraction you would not detect it against an approximate mark like a dipstick ! As I said before, the sump will warm up too, expanding to match the oil.
Doh !
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""Doh !
With respect I acknowledged that my statement WAS nutty but you did not get the irony
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With respect I acknowledged that my statement WAS nutty but you did not get the irony
Apologies, I wasn't sure which, or whose, 'latter statement' you were referring to.
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With respect I acknowledged that my statement WAS nutty but you did not get the irony
Apologies, I wasn't sure which, or whose, 'latter statement' you were referring to.
Quite.
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So-if my oil level check is halfway between minimum and full when warm-how much cold oil should I top up with to bring it to full- once warm- please?
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So-if my oil level check is halfway between minimum and full when warm-how much cold oil should I top up with to bring it to full- once warm- please?
I would suggest that checking oil when hot can give erratic results as the conditions will vary. If the makers advise to do this and your oil looks low, add small amounts (say 100ml) until it looks about right (all measuring hot). Let the car cool down overnight and check the dipstick again to see if the level appears different. Then take that level as your benchmark, as it is always best to check oil under repeatable conditions. If it looks the same, then there seems no reason to worry about hot or cold. It probably won't, because oil can take quite a while to drain down into the sump.
You may find the engine uses no oil, so just check it every few weeks.
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Apologies everyone-apparantly you must only check Mazda cx3 oil from warm after temperature has reached normal…. Apparantly oil expands when warmer and will reveal a cold half way dipstick read to be reading full. Odd but….any comments welcome??
Perhaps so the punter doesn't have to wait, for the instant gratification, smartphone generation?
Doesn't make any sense as a technical procedure with consistency as its objective, but hey, its a manufacturers recommendation.
Making sense isn't the Prime Directive.
That'll come from the marketing department.
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If I recall, the newer generations of cars now don't come with nice handbooks any more, but pdf files (presumably) via an 'account' or link that can be uploaded onto a phone or you use some 'app'. I wouldn't want my smartphone perched on top of the engine whilst doing DIY maintenance / checks.
No Haynes manuals for Mazda3s after the first gen car, and that one is really for the US market (and doesn't include the 1.6 petrol as was never sold there) according to reviews. Still, if you can get round the US lingo, it doe provide 'some' help.
Shame nothing for the 3 later generations of the car (although the second isn't that different under the skin for the petrol models).
Edited by Engineer Andy on 21/04/2022 at 19:40
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If I recall, the newer generations of cars now don't come with nice handbooks any more, but pdf files (presumably) via an 'account' or link that can be uploaded onto a phone or you use some 'app'. I wouldn't want my smartphone perched on top of the engine whilst doing DIY maintenance / checks.
Vauxhall certainly do, and I know Hyundai/Honda and Aston Martin do.
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If I recall, the newer generations of cars now don't come with nice handbooks any more, but pdf files
The Fabia came with a "normal" handbook but parts of it refer you to the .pdf version which has more info.
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Just out of interest. This job will go the way of the Dodo. EVs have no oil to check.
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Just out of interest. This job will go the way of the Dodo. EVs have no oil to check.
True, but they still have other fluid levels to check, and I suspect battery condition & range will need to be kept an eye on due to fluctutaions in the external temperature and age of the equipment.
Electrical equipment also has a nasty habit of suddenly failing with little to no prior warning signs, unlike mechanica which gives some more advanced warning, especially when checked at service time or by the user.
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Indeed. Plus-If you have a flat battery at home that coincides with a long major geographical power outage -then you are much more seriously inconvenienced than having to have a moderate oil top up??
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Don't give up on ICE too quickly. With the cost of new vehicles there would appear to me a greater need to keep ICE cars going for as long as possible even if it means spending more on repairs than would previously been considered. Also to be considered is perhaps when EVs reach 7 year old and perhaps more affordable an expensive replacement battery is possibly on the horizon.
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Agreed Sammy1-and how many people bother repairing devices with lithium batteries-we just buy a new one. New car costing £35K on average every 7 years???
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Agreed Sammy1-and how many people bother repairing devices with lithium batteries-we just buy a new one. New car costing £35K on average every 7 years???
Remember most cars on the road bought new - approx. 80% are bought on a PCP so only the monthly cost is of importance to most people.
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"Remember most cars on the road bought new - approx. 80% are bought on a PCP so only the monthly cost is of importance to most people""
Very true. That monthly cost is going to get squeezed pretty tight for some in the coming months. I would not want to live like that, always bought and owned what I could afford
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This is a lovely example of topic drift - complete switch from checking oil (which seems to have vanished) to life of EV batteries .... :-)
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Foxy Jukebox you won't have to pay eleventy thousand for new batteries every seven years. The tech has much improved now and manufacturers offer a 8 year battery guarantee. If it was as you think they'd be guaranteeing their bankruptcy wouldn't they.
Edited by Ethan Edwards on 24/04/2022 at 10:24
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Foxy Jukebox you won't have to pay eleventy thousand for new batteries every seven years. The tech has much improved now and manufacturers offer a 8 year battery guarantee. If it was as you think they'd be guaranteeing their bankruptcy wouldn't they.
It'll take many years for the market for 8+ year old EVs to have faith in battery reliability - bearing in mind that the average car is scrapped at 14 years old in the UK.
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We just don't know how long the current batch of EV batteries will remain viable. After 14 years will they still be delivering 80% and therefore still useable, or will they be down to 20% and so basically a write off. Car manufacturers have been making petrol engines for 100+ years (and diesel for decades) but they still don't always get it right (Ecoboost, Puretech and others), but are happy to let the customer do the final testing stage with usually no ownership of the problem once the warranty has expired. I'm thinking the same will happen with EVs. Virtually all manufacturers are new to the technology and have rushed out products with insufficient long term testing.
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And as I said every manufacturer now is GUARANTEEING a minimum battery life of 8 years. You think they have not done sufficient testing? Thus ensuring they go bankrupt? Hard to make a dent on your kind of logic mate.
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Are there conditions on the eight years? Such as keeping the car serviced at the main dealer, mileage limit etc?
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"And as I said every manufacturer now is GUARANTEEING a minimum battery life of 8 years."
What exactly are they guaranteeing? That the battery will remain at 100% efficiency? That it won't completely fail? My point isn't just about batteries. How long are they guaranteeing the motors, or the battery cooling, or the computer hardware that makes it all tick, or the regenerative braking or all the other new technology which they haven't had to offer previously?
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What exactly are they guaranteeing? That the battery will remain at 100% efficiency? That it won't completely fail? My point isn't just about batteries.
As with all warranties, I guess you have to read the small print carefully, including any half-concealed implications.
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Foxy Jukebox you won't have to pay eleventy thousand for new batteries every seven years. The tech has much improved now and manufacturers offer a 8 year battery guarantee. If it was as you think they'd be guaranteeing their bankruptcy wouldn't they.
If I remember, Vauxhall had for a time a 'lifetime' warranty which was dropped after the cost of it presumably made it a big loss-maker.
I wonder if the battery guarantees approaching 10 years are just to attract customers (i.e. a loss-leader) as EVs gain popularity, and will shorten once sales are sufficiently large that the risk is too high (hundreds of thousands of customers per year per manufacturer wanting replacement batteries over the next decade) to continue offering it.
I don't recall any mobile phone, laptop, tablet or general rechargeable battery manufacturers giving such products an 8 year warranty over and above the normal year or two for the rest of their products. Something doesn't add up.
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I don't recall any mobile phone, laptop, tablet or general rechargeable battery manufacturers giving such products an 8 year warranty over and above the normal year or two for the rest of their products. Something doesn't add up.
Generally no one would care if their laptop/mobile battery lasted 8 years though as most people will have upgraded before then so no manufacturer would want to offer a guarantee. It would mean having to have phone/laptop serviced yearly which no one would want to do. But plenty of older devices floating about that still work fine, don't think there is anymore to it.
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I don't recall any mobile phone, laptop, tablet or general rechargeable battery manufacturers giving such products an 8 year warranty over and above the normal year or two for the rest of their products. Something doesn't add up.
Generally no one would care if their laptop/mobile battery lasted 8 years though as most people will have upgraded before then so no manufacturer would want to offer a guarantee. It would mean having to have phone/laptop serviced yearly which no one would want to do. But plenty of older devices floating about that still work fine, don't think there is anymore to it.
In the case of mobile phones, the cost of a genuine replacement battery is cheap, an unbranded generic replacement is dirt cheap - but in the case of EVs, a battery replacement is a big proportion of the original cost.
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"""In the case of mobile phones, the cost of a genuine replacement battery is cheap, an unbranded generic replacement is dirt cheap - but in the case of EVs, a battery replacement is a big proportion of the original cost."""
I can only pick up on battery replacement costs from the odd report in the press. Nowhere have I read about reports of failing motors or other EV equipment but it may be happening but obviously not good PR for it to be made public. EV sales are still smallish percentages of sales and the latest cars are not that old. You hear of the odd EV in for a week until a part comes in but that seems it. This forum is far too limited for any public reporting but maybe in a few years some sort of pattern may appear. Here's hoping that EV turns out to be a very reliable product and the prices come down.
I was reading up on the BMW new 7 Series. Of interest is that their batteries are super slim and not lithium/nickel and 400 miles range for a big heavy car. With ever improving battery tech it could be all too easy to buy the wrong EV today.
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"With ever improving battery tech it could be all too easy to buy the wrong EV today."
The way the technology has developed over the last 5 years makes me think that the EVs available come 2030 will be a massive improvement on what is available today. Today's EVs are likely to be dinosaurs in comparison. Charging will be much improved too. The only question mark in my mind is where all the extra leccy will come from and what it will cost.
I'm happy to let current owners carry on with the beta testing for now.
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The only question mark in my mind is where all the extra leccy will come from and what it will cost.
Same here. If the whole world drives electric cars and trucks, where will all the energy needed to move all those extra ton-miles of battery weight around come from?
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<< If the whole world drives electric cars and trucks, where will all the energy needed to move all those extra ton-miles of battery weight around come from? >>
Burning the fuel that is no longer travelling our roads from refinery to petrol station ... :-)
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<< If the whole world drives electric cars and trucks, where will all the energy needed to move all those extra ton-miles of battery weight around come from? >>
Burning the fuel that is no longer travelling our roads from refinery to petrol station ... :-)
:-)
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The only question mark in my mind is where all the extra leccy will come from and what it will cost.
Same here. If the whole world drives electric cars and trucks, where will all the energy needed to move all those extra ton-miles of battery weight around come from?
Or the HUGE increase in battery materials like lithium.
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"With ever improving battery tech it could be all too easy to buy the wrong EV today."
The way the technology has developed over the last 5 years makes me think that the EVs available come 2030 will be a massive improvement on what is available today. Today's EVs are likely to be dinosaurs in comparison. Charging will be much improved too. The only question mark in my mind is where all the extra leccy will come from and what it will cost.
I'm happy to let current owners carry on with the beta testing for now.
And in ten years you'll say the same thing, leave it ten years for more exciting technologies to emerge. And then another ten years and so on. Do you see where that's going?
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Exciting doesn't enter the equation. From what I've read, driving an EV is good with the present offerings. Long term reliability - the jury is still out. PSA have trouble producing a reliable petrol engine, let's hope they have more luck with EVs.
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PSA have trouble producing a reliable petrol engine, let's hope they have more luck with EVs.
Not so. You might be more correct saying they had lost the knack. But Peugeot engines (most of them) have earned a good reputation for durability over the years and decades.
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Yes, agreed. It's the Puretech engine I was referring to. They have lost their way with this piece of latest technology which is why I would have concerns whether they can get EVs right first time. Same goes for Ford and any of the other manufacturers who are new to the game. Long term reliability is of no concern to those who buy new on PCP and get another in three years time (including Puretech drivers) or company drivers who are attracted to low BIK.
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PSA? You mean Stellantis surely. Vauxhall are using the same running gear as Citroën and Peugeot. So far several thousand miles in its been superb. Our 2nd EV is a Fiat 500e also Stellantis and again no issues whatsoever. Tesla has been producing electric motors with no issues for over ten years. So it's already a mature technology. There's no overlap with Puretech whatsoever.
Edited by Ethan Edwards on 26/04/2022 at 20:11
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Jeez, isn't it time to close this thread as well? The last 25 posts have absolutely nothing to do with checking oil!!!
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Close this and there will be nothing to talk about!
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I’ve got lots of excellent comments on checking oil now-thanks
No more advice on EVs please….they don’t need oil!
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Puretech predates Stellantis by several years which is why I said PSA and of course Vauxhall came on board inbetween. Your Mocca is a mildly reworked 208 and I would expect it to be performing as intended as it's new. Not sure if the 500e is Fiat developed or comes from the Stellantis parts bin? Again yours is very new and I'd expect it to perform.
Tesla have been at it a long enough to have a proven product, but others are new to the game. I'm not aware of Tesla parts being used by other manufacturers, but as Tesla is at the premium end, other manufacturers must cut costs (corners) somewhere to sell EVs at less than half the price.
Edited by Chris M on 26/04/2022 at 21:37
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Tesla have been at it a long enough to have a proven product, but others are new to the game.
I don't know how much a car maker will need to go back to a drawing board in designing electric motors. They may be fairly unfamiliar tech in a car, but there is decades of experience in the railway field, not to mention things like trolleybuses to draw on. I suspect the bigger obstacle will be the electronics to control the vehicle.
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Are Tesla at the premium end of EVs, I suppose their prices certainly are. I find their designs quite bland and can you even get a different colour other than black or white and most of these look like they could do we a good polish or a decent coat of paint.
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Are Tesla at the premium end of EVs, I suppose their prices certainly are. I find their designs quite bland and can you even get a different colour other than black or white and most of these look like they could do we a good polish or a decent coat of paint.
I find a lot the the more expensive cars from Merc/BMW/Audi etc very bland, think that's why I always like the look of Maseratis cars - premium high end cars but with a more distinctive look.
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