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All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - HGV ~ P Valentine

£40bn profits for BP and Shell fuel calls for windfall tax on energy firms (msn.com)

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - Brit_in_Germany

BP is, I believe a US company, Shell part Dutch. Were these profits generated through UK sales or in other countries?

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - Brit_in_Germany

Correction- its HQ is still in the UK but a third of its revenue is generated in the US.

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - Mike Lyons

Both bp & Shell are Multinationals, making revenue & paying taxes globally

(although Shell paid no UK taxes for 2019 - which suggests they made a UK loss for that year).

Fuel sales might be making record profits right now, but other parts of the business such as refining , petro-chems don't necessarily follow. Most European refineries ran at a loss for last 10-years .

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - Engineer Andy

Funny how those calling for said windfall taxes don't mind if they lose money or make relatively little on another year.

It should be pointed out that many of the reasons why oil prices are high are due to the hardline pandemic response and green policies, which the aforementioned people have pushed VERY hard.

I sincerely doubt that much of the profits came from UK-based (including the North Sea) operations, thus not much would be able to be clawed back, and besides, doing so isn't exactly a great way of trying to encourage bigger firms to come to the UK or stay.

I think there are other ways to ensure firms (of all sizes) behave reasonably as well as legally.

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - focussed

As a Shell shareholder I am more concerned about the dividend yield.

It was a massive 3.6% last year which Shell are going to increase by 4% - Wow!

They are forecasting $0.25 per share for 2022.

Most of this profit increase is from international LNG trading.

Up to 2020 the dividend used to pay our housing and land tax here in France,

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - RT

The massive profits by BP and Shell need to be viewed in context of their massive turnover and massive investment - but of course socialist politicians just look at the tax income!

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - Bromptonaut

It should be pointed out that many of the reasons why oil prices are high are due to the hardline pandemic response and green policies, which the aforementioned people have pushed VERY hard.

Why would pandemic responses, irrespective of who pressed for them in the UK, have such a massive effect on world prices?

Oil company profits are a margin on the unit price of gas and oil. If the unit price is high then the margin may be high too.

Windfall taxes are not just a socialist thing; they were imposed by the Thatcher government in the eighties.

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - Engineer Andy

It should be pointed out that many of the reasons why oil prices are high are due to the hardline pandemic response and green policies, which the aforementioned people have pushed VERY hard.

Why would pandemic responses, irrespective of who pressed for them in the UK, have such a massive effect on world prices?

I would've thought that would be obvious - recovering demand after the lockdowns (but still with some measures which limit productivity) mean that the cost of production is a lot higher.

Similarly, green policies are starting to make a difference on prices via higher taxes on hydrocarbon-based fuels and usage (e.g. ULEZs) but without anywhere sufficient 'green' alternatives to take their place.

Many people are also still scared (thanks to government propaganda - much of which is now shown to be wrong or outright lies) of travelling on public transport and thus demand for cars and car usage is high. Even more so for can usage because many people are grocery and clothing shopping online and having it delivered rather than going to the shops in person (often on foot).

Of course (as I've also stated before, including on other threads [e.g. EV cars]) the geopolitical situation over the last 6-12 months regarding possible armed conflicts involving superpowers and oil/gas supply (which affect one another's prices as well) have also played a big part.

Oil company profits are a margin on the unit price of gas and oil. If the unit price is high then the margin may be high too.

Exactly, hence my earlier comments.

Windfall taxes are not just a socialist thing; they were imposed by the Thatcher government in the eighties.

Indeed - though I wasn't the one who said it was just a socialist government that imposed them, and I think it is a bad idea to impose one-off taxes in general. The tax code should be shortened so it is less complex - the old addage of overtaking plumbling and stopping up drains being apt here.

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - FP

"Many people are also still scared (thanks to government propaganda - much of which is now shown to be wrong or outright lies) of travelling on public transport..."

Please explain what you mean. In particular: which government information regarding public transport use do you regard as "propaganda? Which government information regarding public transport use do you claim has been shown to be wrong or untruthful?

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - Engineer Andy

"Many people are also still scared (thanks to government propaganda - much of which is now shown to be wrong or outright lies) of travelling on public transport..."

Please explain what you mean. In particular: which government information regarding public transport use do you regard as "propaganda? Which government information regarding public transport use do you claim has been shown to be wrong or untruthful?

More about the efficacy of cloth and standard medical facemasks in stopping transmission, especially when used outside the (strictly-controlled) medical environment. Since the original (unsubstantiated) claims that they were effective, many studies - both past and present, have shown they are essentially worthless and only then when used in a clinical setting. Similar with transmission by touching surfaces, working in the office.

People have been overly frightened. Its why many people have chosen to go by car or work from home.

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - Bromptonaut

More about the efficacy of cloth and standard medical facemasks in stopping transmission, especially when used outside the (strictly-controlled) medical environment. Since the original (unsubstantiated) claims that they were effective, many studies - both past and present, have shown they are essentially worthless and only then when used in a clinical setting. Similar with transmission by touching surfaces, working in the office.

Can you identify one or more of these many studies?

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - Andrew-T

<< Can you identify one or more of these many studies? >>

Probably not ?

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - FP

"Many people are also still scared (thanks to government propaganda - much of which is now shown to be wrong or outright lies)..." (Sun 6 Feb 2022 16:13)

"Since the original (unsubstantiated) claims that [masks] were effective, many studies - both past and present, have shown they are essentially worthless and only then when used in a clinical setting." (Mon 7 Feb 2022 16:01)

So the first quotation just boils down to your claim that the wearing of masks to control the spread of Covid is ineffective. I beg to differ.

Nature journal in April 2020, said: “Face masks significantly reduced detection of influenza virus RNA in respiratory droplets and coronavirus RNA in aerosols, with a trend toward reduced detection of coronavirus RNA in respiratory droplets.”

A study conducted by the University of Edinburgh suggested that wearing a face covering could help reduce the spread of coronavirus. The research showed that wearing a covering over the mouth and nose can reduce the forward distance travelled by exhaled breath by more than 90 per cent.

Professor Melinda Mills, Director of the Leverhulme Centre and author of the Oxford COVID-19 study: "The evidence is clear that people should wear masks to reduce virus transmission..."

In a study by researchers at the University of Central Florida, published in the Journal of Infectious Diseases, it was noted that face masks reduce the distance airborne pathogens can travel. It was found that when speaking or coughing, face masks reduced the transmission of airborne particle by more than half compared to not wearing a mask.

There are many other studies that suggest mask-wearing is a worthwhile protection against transmission.

Apart from anything else, common sense suggests that any cloth covering the nose and mouth will provide at least some protection. It won't be 100% effective, but it will not be useless.

Edited by FP on 07/02/2022 at 18:45

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - edlithgow

"Many people are also still scared (thanks to government propaganda - much of which is now shown to be wrong or outright lies)..." (Sun 6 Feb 2022 16:13)

"Since the original (unsubstantiated) claims that [masks] were effective, many studies - both past and present, have shown they are essentially worthless and only then when used in a clinical setting." (Mon 7 Feb 2022 16:01)

So the first quotation just boils down to your claim that the wearing of masks to control the spread of Covid is ineffective. I beg to differ.

Nature journal in April 2020, said: “Face masks significantly reduced detection of influenza virus RNA in respiratory droplets and coronavirus RNA in aerosols, with a trend toward reduced detection of coronavirus RNA in respiratory droplets.”

A study conducted by the University of Edinburgh suggested that wearing a face covering could help reduce the spread of coronavirus. The research showed that wearing a covering over the mouth and nose can reduce the forward distance travelled by exhaled breath by more than 90 per cent.

Professor Melinda Mills, Director of the Leverhulme Centre and author of the Oxford COVID-19 study: "The evidence is clear that people should wear masks to reduce virus transmission..."

In a study by researchers at the University of Central Florida, published in the Journal of Infectious Diseases, it was noted that face masks reduce the distance airborne pathogens can travel. It was found that when speaking or coughing, face masks reduced the transmission of airborne particle by more than half compared to not wearing a mask.

There are many other studies that suggest mask-wearing is a worthwhile protection against transmission.

Apart from anything else, common sense suggests that any cloth covering the nose and mouth will provide at least some protection. It won't be 100% effective, but it will not be useless.

I don't really have an opinion on this. The evidence I've seen (which is not based on exhaustive reading which I havn't made time for) is contradictory and hence inconclusive, so doesn't really support a strong opinion, but in general, the best statement to make would be "it depends".

It will depend on the precise definitions of "effectiveness", and the precise conditions of the test, which vary widely

I would say that the above results (as opposed to the conclusions) quoted seem very limited, appropriately cautious, and quite a long way short of demonstrating an actual protective effect of the masks normally employed in real public transport situations.

I have seen some studies which looked at duration of exposure. Masks gave a degree of short term protection, but gave no protection on prolonged exposure, such as you might experience in a train journey alongside an infected person.

tw.forumosa.com/t/coronavirus-taiwan-developments-...8

Havn't traced the source of that graphic, but the numbers look like general guidance rather than actual data. In real situations, the infectivity of the strain, the state of infection of the source (i.e. how many particles are being emitted), and the level of ventilation will be important variables

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - Terry W

Prices are high because global demand is high - UK politicians have no control. Lots of reasons - Russian control over gas supplies, disrupted supply chains, recommissioning refineries and wells following global shutdowns etc etc.

As the costs of getting gas and oil out of the ground are (relatively) fixed, the higher the price the higher the profit. As Bromptonaut says windfall taxes have been imposed by all shades of government in the past.

UK waters are high cost places to operate - unsurprisingly oil companies go for the easy win first. The oil and gas companies are predictably mounting a defence citing risk, exploration costs, investment costs, taking one year with another etc etc.

It is a judgement as to how much tax they would accept before they decide to put money, time and effort elsewhere.

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - Engineer Andy

I suspect the supply chains and manufacturing problems effects haven't helped prices either, i.e. finding replacement parts was more difficult and thus those prices went up, and are passed on, never mind the reduction in available workers (including in factories) due to lockdowns, self-isolation even if not actually sick.

Often only takes one link in the supply chain to stop it all.

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - Falkirk Bairn

Company working in UK waters made roughly £2Bn profit in the last year

Tax allowances in "the bank" from investment over decades and recent losses is £6Bn

Tax due this year to HMRC = £ almost zero

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - HGV ~ P Valentine

It is true the big 3 are so much more then just petrol prices and like all multinationals have their fingers in lots of pies, but ..

It is right that the public should be annoyed when the price of crude goes down but the petrol stations do not lower their prices ???

ex

1 . cost price goes up, so prices go up, ok fine.

2 . Cost prices go down, but prices remain the same or still go up.

3 . Cost prices go back up again after going down, but prices go up again.

etc etc etc

This has been the pattern, and it is pure greed, nothing more. The worst of it is, that all of us are paying for this, because all transport companies transport goods by road to all the shops, and this cost gets past on to the customer.

Edited by A Driver since 1988, HGV 2006 on 15/02/2022 at 08:27

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - HGV ~ P Valentine

March 2020, fuel prices droped to 99.7p per litre. Now it is £1.467, only 2 years ago.

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - John F

Doesn't make me sick at all. I suspect virtually all on this site are shareholders, directly and/or indirectly from their investments and/or pension plans.

March 2020, fuel prices droped to 99.7p per litre. Now it is £1.467.....

Has anyone noticed that since Asda was bought by a couple of Lancashire businessmen, the inter-supermarket fuel price competition appears to have evolved into a cartel which now provides fewer savings to be made by frequenting their outlets.

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - RT

Doesn't make me sick at all. I suspect virtually all on this site are shareholders, directly and/or indirectly from their investments and/or pension plans.

March 2020, fuel prices droped to 99.7p per litre. Now it is £1.467.....

Has anyone noticed that since Asda was bought by a couple of Lancashire businessmen, the inter-supermarket fuel price competition appears to have evolved into a cartel which now provides fewer savings to be made by frequenting their outlets.

Yes, I've noticed that - I believe those same two businessmen own Euro Garages which seem ready to take over petrol stations which aren't the big brands - Asda used to be the main "protagonist" in the price wars but nowadays Sainsburys and Morrisons seem to be cheaper, not that any of them dropped their prices back down after the delivery shortages.

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - Terry W

There are 42 gallons (160 litres) in a barrel of oil. Simplistically assume that a barrel of oil can all be converted to petrol - the reality is very complex and can only be partially flexed between - diesel, lubricants, plastics, etc etc.

Two year ago oil prices briefly went to zero. From March to May 2020 were consistently below $30 a barrel. The forecourt price of a litre was in the range 105-112p per litre.

Prices are now just below $100 a barrel - up $70 (£52) - 32.5p + VAT = 39p per litre.

Folk should get real - 90%+ of forecourt price increases are down to the global oil price over which the government, forecourt operators or oil companies have no real direct control.

In summary - stop whinging.

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - Andrew-T

<< Has anyone noticed that since Asda was bought by a couple of Lancashire businessmen, the inter-supermarket fuel price competition appears to have evolved into a cartel which now provides fewer savings to be made by frequenting their outlets. >>

I thought we all knew there is little profit to be made from selling roadside fuel, as most of the price is tax of various kinds. Price competition is only possible as a loss-leader with the losses being covered by other sales - which is why most viable fuel outlets have shops or cafés of some kind attached, rather like 'duty-frees' at an airport.

All profits revealed. - This will make you sick - Engineer Andy

It is true the big 3 are so much more then just petrol prices and like all multinationals have their fingers in lots of pies, but ..

It is right that the public should be annoyed when the price of crude goes down but the petrol stations do not lower their prices ???

ex

1 . cost price goes up, so prices go up, ok fine.

2 . Cost prices go down, but prices remain the same or still go up.

3 . Cost prices go back up again after going down, but prices go up again.

etc etc etc

This has been the pattern, and it is pure greed, nothing more. The worst of it is, that all of us are paying for this, because all transport companies transport goods by road to all the shops, and this cost gets past on to the customer.

Forgive me for saying, but the price at the pump is not dictated to by the oil companies, but by the wholesale price and what each retailer (who are franchisees or supermarkets) charges.

Given the majority (by usage) of filling stations are now run by the big supermarkets, then perhaps they need to share some of the blame for not passing on wholesale market price cuts as fast as price rises.

The franchises running the BP, Shell and Esso branded filling stations often just match the price differentials between them and the supermarkets nearby in order to keep trade steady.

Unlike the supermarkets, who often have used fuel as a loss-leader to get customers in the door at the main shop, the franchised outlets obviously have to turn a profit, often located in either expensive areas (rent/rates) with high volume or in outlying ones with low volume of trade. I doubt if many such people running them make fortunes, given how many have gone out of business since the supermakets muscled in on the trade 30 years or so ago.

In the recent case of Shell and BP, they've made a lot of bank this past year due to higher oil prices (which rose far more than general inflation, because fuel is normally the primary cause these days of it, and general inflation lags well behind), but in 2020, they suffered big losses because demand collapsed and so did oil and wholesale prices because of the lockdowns.

I suspect over the two years, their overall profitability has been about the same (averaged out) as previous years.

What we should far more concerned about is how much taxpayer and borrowed (from future generations) money has been spent and wasted by governments worldwide to 'fight' the pandemic and often to pay people to sit at home doing nothing or be less productive than in their normal workplace, which has to be paid back - with interest.

Once restrictions are lifted, everyone goes back to their 'normal' workplace and conditions, factoiries reopen and get back up to full strength and the shorter-term inflationary pressures ease as supply chains get better, but the long-term inflationary base will be (in my view) quite a bit higher than the one we've been used to, mainly because so much government spending has been previously kept off books via creative accounting, but with the hugely increased money supply over the pandemic and profigant spending on measures during it, the piper will be coming very soon.

In addition, costs in developing nations and the big manufacturers like China will be going up cosniderably in the next decade as people in this nations get better off and demand higher wages.

I'd put money on the base (not actual) inflation being nearer to 4% rather than the 1-2% it was for the last 10+ years. I suspect it'll feel far more like the 1970s again over the next decade, which does not bode well.