What difference does it make to the grip, performance and mpg of the Audis?
Is it really necessary or would most people outside of rally drivers not even notice?
Bottomline - is it worth it, or just a lot of money for a little badge?
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Steve,
Not sure about the Audis, but AWD on the Subarus makes them grip to the road like superglue....even the bigger and heavier Legacy's on dirt roads. Never managed to spin wheels, lose the front or back end despite some very enthusiastic driving on mud/dust/dirt/gravel unsealed roads. You pay the price on fuel economy though.
Ian
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Steve, I have no contribution whatsoever to make on this subject other than to congratulate you on the best thread title I've ever seen here - you're not a sub editor on the Sun are you?
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Not guilty Nsar. No talent there I just started to type "To quattro or not to quattro" and realised I'd said enough without the last word!
Jeeze I wonder how much they pay to stumble on those?
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The extra transmission losses and extra weight hurt the fuel economy.
The ride might possibly be slightly worse due to likely greater unsprung weight at the rear.
Acceleration from rest should be better because of better traction (despite any traction control on 2WD).
The extra weight will penalise overtaking acceleration slightly on a smooth, wide road, but 4WD rather than FWD will make the car stay on its intended course better when overtaking on a bumpy narrow lane.
4WD will make for elegant, effortless getaway when the lights go green at wet, uphill T-junction.
4WD will assist in getting up a steep driveway with a covering of snow. It doesn't help much in snow when the roads are already completely blocked by other stuck vehicles.
If you drive smoothly and moderately, almost always on motorways, 2WD will be perfectly adequate.
If you are a bit of a 'press-on' driver and frequently need to overtake on narrow, twisty, wet, possibly-unfamiliar single-carriageways, 4WD is probably worth it. It may one day save your neck and possibly someone else's (sounds like both me and Ian L have been there!).
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Agree completely with Ian L.
I drive an Impreza Turbo, and the AWD system is a fundamental component of one of the truly great driver's cars. Grip is just astonishing, particularly in the wet. AWD produces levels of stability and balance which give the ordinary driver total confidence in the car's behaviour and responses in all driving conditions.
I have no experience of Quattro Audi's, but if their system is anything like as as good as Subaru's, i suggest a test drive!! 25mpg is the only snag.
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I had a legacy Outback 2.5l not the Impreza Turbo, so not used for fast getaway type driving (no cars to race where I used to live!). Still managed 25mpg around town and regularly managed to average 35mpg on long journeys (sealed or unsealed roads).
Most of the off tarmac stuff was on unsealed roads in country NSW and Queensland, 6000km in a fortnight....some of the best driving I have ever done, car was superb, the AWD was a great benefit particularly when driving onto the verge of a 'strip road' at speed to leave the crown of the road to the rapidly approaching 'road train'.
Back to awd in uk conditions, it does give the car a sure footedness that is hard to beat without the weight/performance of a big 4*4, they also make very good tow cars up to a medium weight limit (still need big 4*4 for the heavy stuff). Due to the halving of the torque being applied to each wheel (assuming manual 50:50 split front to rear) it is much more difficult to spin the wheels however it doesnt do much to prevent lateral skidding but can help recovering...so much so that you might not even realise the car has started to slide.
regards
Ian L.
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I can only agree with the other Subaru drivers here. I have a Legacy saloon and the grip and handling are outstanding when compared to other 2wd cars in the same class. I get low 30's mpg which is more than compensated by the handling and that superb engine.
So, in answer to your question, yes, but I'd buy a Subaru.
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I'm changing my Audi Quattro for a V70R AWD, 265bhp spread over four wheels not two seems a good idea!
Stu.
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I had an Impreza turbo too. I've also had the dubious pleasure of spinning it off the road once. I wasn't going particularly quickly either. It had just rained and the corner that I went off on was covered in diesel. Not pleasant. Even the superglue tendencies of my Impreza couldn't save me. Maybe a better driver would have avoided spinning although having seen a certain Mr Schumacher spin out on oil I'm not so sure.
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Not a lot can save you when you hit diesel on a wet road.
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Marcos,
Except observation?
Read Roadcraft or PYADT or other books - note whether the kerbs are sloped (normally where there is no pedestrian path) or square (normally where there is a pedestrian path).
Note changes in road surfaces - think that diesel is often spilled on roundabouts, for obvious reasons...and as colder weather approaches, bridges can be icy due to the colder air under them making the overpass colder than the road.
Etc etc etc.....
End of rant,
Matt35
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Permanent four-wheel drive rules! Three of my five current vehicles are full-time 4x4 and if we end up anywhere in Europe when we leave Jordan next year then (joint) top of my list is the new Subaru Legacy 3.0 estate or a second-hand Audi A8 4.2 quattro.
Let us know how you get on with your V70R AWD, Brill.
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Which is why, when I replace my Sportwagon, it will be with another, only this time one of the 175bhp JTD 4wd Sportwagons that Alfa have been seen testing. Or I may just wait for the 158 with the rumoured 225bhp JTD....
:o)
ND
I don't care if it's the only reliable Alfa in the world, it's *MY* Alfa.
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I've driven an Audi S3 for a day. Like others say they stick like glue and pull away from standstill with a more sure footed feeling. Problem with this car and its 225 bhp (which you have to use!) was £10 of petrol lasted about 40 miles - indicator showed 2mpg at one stage! The 4 wheel drive Audi TDi's are alomost as frugal as the 2 wheel drive versions.
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No Dosh,
I lived in Italy for two years in my youth - never owned an Alfa,but have several times in the last few years done from Milano to Taranto and back in an Alfa diesel.
Not much passed us, the motor was a joy to drive.
The Alfa engine sound, petrol or diesel,is music?
Yours is not the only reliable Alfa in the world - they are one of the few cars left that you can have a love affair with.
Matt35.
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"Let us know how you get on with your V70R AWD, Brill."
Mark,
I've posted a picture of it, (not the new shape I'm afraid, limited edition colour and greater bhp) on the Backroom Gallery.
groups.msn.com/honestjohn
Could do with more images ... vehicles, people shots etc.
Stu.
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I have an A4 2.5TDi Quattro and the grip in the wet is fantastic, far better than any 2wd car I have driven. The stability at high speed in any conditions is also great.
To be honest I don't think that in dry conditions it makes a fat lot of difference whether it is 2wd or 4wd, however.
I'm not sure the 4wd allows you to pull away quicker as my car has a very low 1st gear and I am afraid of frying the clutch with a quick pull away start as the traction from the tyres is so good.
I've never regretted the extra 2wd and in actual fact I don't believe you pay much extra (I think the 1.9Tdi quattro is only 1K more than the 2wd version).
As far as fuel economy goes, about 42 mpg on a long motorway run, have got 45mpg driving it very frugally on a cross country route, but will get about 33 mpg if completely caning it over the same roads.
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Sitecode,
That's useful info thanks. The spec for the 3 litre petrol seems to knock a whole couple of seconds off the 0-60 for the quattro presumably this is the extra grip and the weight.
It just seemed a lot!
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Steve,
The real advantage in the awd is not in the 0-60 time but the general handling (wet or dry) and real world acceleration, ie out of bends, roundabouts not from a standing start.
The extra complexity of the drive train is a weight and friction penalty thus increasing 0-60 times and fuel consumption. But these negatives must be weighed against many other benefits.
regards
Ian L.
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Like Ian L, I've no experience of Audi 4x4 cars, but the Citroen BX 4x4 I had would whip round roundabouts and tight bends like no other car I've ever had. The BX is a useful car for wheeling people and luggage around in comfortable economy but the 4x4 really transformed it. Whereas the front wheel driver has predictable understeer, I never found the limits of the 4x4 which generated outstanding G-forces while neither understeering nor oversteering, until my nerve gave out. It was also the dog's whatsits in snow.
Spoil yourself, go for the 4x4. Like ABS, you won't use it much but you'll be glad you've got it when yo really need it.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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