My wife is considering purchasing her brothers car, but I consider his valuation to be way over the current market value. I would like further opinion on the subject ?
The car in question is a Landrover Defender 90, short wheel base. The car was professionally rebuilt by TJC Landrovers in Norfolk, in 2001, but has a 'D' plate. The specification of the vehicle is as follows:
300 tdi engine; since the rebuild the car has done 25,000 miles. A low mileage (ca. 30,000 miles) engine from another vehicle was fitted at the time of the rebuild, although the engine was not reconditioned at this time
chassis is the original, but was hot dipped galvanised during the rebuild
full service history (from 2001)
up rated springs all round, compomotive alloy wheels, poly bushed throughout, twisted animation intercooler, trakker modular front seats, 4 trakker inward facing rear seats, 2 with diagonal belts, 2 with lap belts, Mantec rear security grilles
Stainless steel 'A' bar with spots, Wing protectors,Anniversary chequer plate kit, Front and rear lamp guards, Manual window winders, Additional rear mounted spots, Rear section glass in limousine black
2001 purchase price = £14K. It's offered at £11.5K. I see the car as a 1986 car in good cond. My valuation £5/6K ? Seller says car is basically 2 years old. Depreciation of £1.25 pa (unrealistic ?) gives £11.5K. Any thoughts ?
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This is a specialist car and its value is going to be in the enthusiast community. Certainly a restored Mini of this age could be worth about £2800, having cost maybe £4000 - assuming the restoration was done properly.
FWIW the closest I can come up with from AutoTrader is www.reidlandrovers.co.uk/car.asp?id=kk74 , which is a 98 300 TDi 110 County with 77k on it for £12995.
Because of the specification upgrades and the professional work, I'd say that the car is worth more than an 86 but significantly less than an 01 - one of the last Minis would be worth about £6500.
To an enthusiast, someone who specifically wants a Defender, your brother's valuation may be right, at least as a starting price, but to me it seems on the high side. Not really knowing anything about these, I would suggest that unless your wife specifically wants a Defender and nothing else - and is aware that they really are "agricultural" to drive - I would leave this one.
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Sounds high to me-look at the small ads in the back of one of the specialist LR mags in a big newsagent to get an idea of prices.
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Intended Post below
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No no no no!
My wife is considering purchasing her brothers car...
Many of the worse deals I see (I get involved with lots of valuations/inspections) are those between relatives/friends. The seller seems to ask a premium just because the buyer knows them!
...professionally rebuilt by TJC Landrovers in Norfolk, in 2001, but has a \'D\' plate.
So it is a 1986 and that is what the value will always be related to, in fact every extra year since the rebuild makes it less and less of an issue, in the end it will level out at the same value as one without the work...more on this later.
300 tdi engine
Very good engine, worthwhile and adds real value. But has it had the timing belt issues resolved (recall work)?
chassis is the original, but was hot dipped galvanised during the rebuild
Bit weird. In 2001 most 90 chassis would not have been worth repairing/preparing/ galvanising. Wonder why they didn\'t just repair/Waxoyl or replace with new? Might this old chassis even be age weakened under the galv coating?
...up rated springs all round, compomotive alloy wheels, poly bushed, twisted animation intercooler, trakker modular front seats, 4 trakker inward facing rear seats, 2 with diagonal belts, 2 with lap belts, Mantec rear security grilles
Stainless steel \'A\' bar with spots, Wing protectors,Anniversary chequer plate kit, Front and rear lamp guards, Manual window winders, Additional rear mounted spots, Rear section glass in limousine black.
All of the above is highly personal and down to taste. Now these items only add a fraction of their cost. In fact I wouldn\'t pay a penny extra for them.
2001 purchase price = £14K.
They were ill advised to pay this much if they expected it to anything like hold its value. At the time they could have bought a damn good mid 1990s 300TDi in met paint with alloys.
It\'s offered at £11.5K.
Absolutely daft!
I see the car as a 1986 car in good cond.
You are right. In fact I\'d see it as a 1986 vehicle that had been altered in a way that would reduce its desireability to a huge percentage of LR buyers.
My valuation £5/6K?
Much nearer the mark, I wouldn\'t even pay that.
Seller says car is basically 2 years old.
Of course it isn\'t, it\'s 17 years old.
Depreciation of £1.25 pa (unrealistic ?) gives £11.5K.
This thing would have depreciated £6K or more the moment they drove it away!
As I see it you have two choices...
If you want to spend about £10K then get a genuine 1997 90 300TDi with pas and county pack in metallic blue (as an example of one I saw yesterday) from a dealer with full service, new MOT and 6mth warranty. Even less privately as a fair comparison the the deal with your relative.
If you want a 1986 90 find a genuine clean non-turbo diesel with a good chassis for about £3K. Then add any specific improvements you want.
Oh and by the way was this one you\'re looking at really a complete D-reg vehicle that was rebuilt with a replacement TDi engine? Or might it have been a collection of various parts assembled and *attached* to a spare V5? It happens a lot in the LR world and serial numbers on the chassis, engine, transmission, axles could bring this to light in some future circumstances...resulting in you being forced to re-register it as a Q-plate (I think).
Just my opinion.
;-)
M.M
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KC, I am not an expert in valuations but, ten years ago I was the service manager for the then largest Land Rover dealer in the world, I had a bog-standard Defender for 3 years from new and I currently own a poly-bushed Range Rover of the same age as this D reg Defender.
IMO, DavidHM is right (as usual). This car cannot really be compared to a 2001 model although visually there are many similarities. Neither is it a 1986 model in simply "good condition". As I do not know exactly what was entailed in the "professional rebuild by TJC" I cannot comment except on the items you list.
A hot dipped galvanised chassis, if done properly, should be good for 20+ years. This adds value.
The 300 Tdi engine is a great engine for the Defender and far, far superior to the original 2.5 litre normally aspirated lump this car possibly came with. This 300 TDi engine now has 55,000 miles, if I read correctly.
However you mention nothing about the rest of the drive train. The LT77 gearbox is notorious for poor longevity, durability and reliability. The transfer box, propshafts and axles might all be 17-year old originals.
Poly-bushes are excellent and will ensure the car handles properly (assuming the rest of the suspension is also in good order). They last up to 5 times longer than the original items. A vehicle set costs around £150.
The new seats sound more comfortable than the original items (but I found the original items to be quite satisfactory when new). The manual wind-up windows are an improvement over the sliding early-Mini-type ones fitted to the earliest Defenders.
The rest of the features you list are ultimately cosmetic. IMO, fancy springs and wheels add no value on this car unless your wife specifically requires their slightly improved performance in serious off-road driving. Standard items perform perfectly well.
You do not mention power steering. Has your wife actually driven the car yet? Is she planning on some off-roading? A Defender 90 like this is one of the best vehicles for serious off-roading in the UK. Your wife has to ask herself exactly what she wants the car for.
But, in conclusion, I think the car is probably considerably over-priced.
If she decides she wants a 90-type vehicle she should also consider the short-wheel base Mercedes G-wagon. Older versions can be very good value with similar specification, are better engineered, do not leak in rain and do not leak out oil. Try a G-wagon, I have one. The G-wagon Owners Club is small but useful and there are often good examples for sale.
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I'm going to go further than my original advice in the light of MM's post, especially if there is a possibility that the car is not restored but randomly put together.
Either way, £11500 is way too much and your figures are probably accurate - still higher than for a 1986, by all accounts.
And buying from a relative means you're likely to get a poor deal unless they are aware of doing you a favour - and know the market.
Avoid.
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Just don't touch it because its a Land Rover! If £11500 is your budget there are many much more reliable vehicles out there! If you want to spend most of your free time repairing and replacing things that have fallen off as you have driven the car then go ahead! I also have to agree with advice regarding buying from family members. I have seen many a 'close' family drift apart because of a dodgy car sale.
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M.M.
I salute you Sir.
That is an excellent well balanced and sensible post. There is no need to say more.
DVD
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Hi All
I agree with M.M. As a Landrover fan I would give no more than £5K for this vehicle. (don't tell the wife, there is enough junk hanging about here already) Sounds an interesting vehicle though, Like the idea of the 300 TDi engine.
Alyn Beattie
I'm sane, it's the rest of the world that's mad.
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Brain cogs not kicking in this p.m.
The Landrover Owners Magazine (September 2003 Page 123) has the following therein:
Want us to help you buy a Land Rover?
Contact assistant editor Dan Stevens at
dan.stevens@emap.com.
Please tell us how much you have to spend, what you want to buy and when you want to buy.
They do a feature on this so as this seems beyond the run of the mill vehicle they take you on board and advise accordingly.
DVD
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Many thanks for all the responses to my notice. There is now a realisation, by all, that the car is overpriced. He won't sell the vehicle at its' market value; he'd make too much of a loss. As far as I'm concerned the subject is closed.
Thanks again
KC
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