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n/a - E85 ethanol versus neat petrol test. - focussed

How does E85 ( 85% ethanol - 15% petrol) stack up on a properly conducted test versus neat petrol?

E85 is no longer widely available in the UK.

As this test was carried out in the USA in 2009 the fuel price comparison is almost certainly not valid, but the consumption and environmental advantage conclusions stand.

Two 667 mile round trips San Diego >Las Vegas and return.

The same flex-fuel vehicle used for both tests.

1 - On petrol 18.3 us mpg - (22.43 uk mpg)

2- On E85 13.5 us mpg - ( 16.33 uk mpg)

26.5 % higher fuel consumption using E85

CO2 emissions calculated at:-

On petrol 706.5 lbs of CO2 emitted

On E85 703 lbs of CO2 emitted - 0.5% less than the petrol test run.

www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/e85-vs-gasoline-compa...l

So my question is:-

As the environmental advantage from this test on 85% ethanol was minimal/marginal, what environmental advantage is likely using the recently introduced E10 10% ethanol fuel in the UK?

n/a - E85 ethanol versus neat petrol test. - Andrew-T

The whole argument probably depends on being able to recycle the CO2 by growing more corn to turn back into ethanol, instead of going to outlandish places prospecting for more fossil fuel.

The amusing thing is that we are also told there is a 'shortage of CO2' for making dry ice as a refrigerant for transport .... :-)

n/a - E85 ethanol versus neat petrol test. - Terry W

Ethanol based derived from corn in theory emits no CO2 providing (a) green energy is used in its manufacture, and (b) that a similar acreage is replanted to re-absorb the CO2 emitted when used..

Fossil fuels will emit CO2 when burnt as fuel.

n/a - E85 ethanol versus neat petrol test. - sammy1

""Ethanol based derived from corn in theory emits no CO2""

In theory (c) How about ploughing the fields, seeding them, spreading fertilisers, making and transporting said fertilisers, making and spraying weed killers, cutting and harvesting the crop, transport to the ethanol plant, manufacture of ethanol,disposal of waste, storage of ethanol, transport of ethanol to petrol refinery for mixing all using "green energy? Seems like UK's CO2 problem will soon be solved, we won't have any gas or if we do a lot of people won't be able to afford it to burn

n/a - E85 ethanol versus neat petrol test. - Manatee

As has been said, the emitted CO2 is balanced that that absorbed when the maize or whatever was grown. Contrast with petrol where the CO2 released was locked up millions of years ago, so is "new" CO2.

But to be CO2 neutral, all the energy used in produced the ethanol (ploughing, planting, fertilising, harvesting, distillation, transport) would have to be renewable. It seems unlikely that will be the case. You would also have to consider the effect on food production of taking the land out of food production. If growing food becomes more intensive then that could also be accompanied by negative impacts.

Somebody must have done the sums on this but it sounds as if it could be a fairly small benefit especially at the level of adding an extra 5% ethanol to fuel.

Good question.

I'd like to see the answer in full if it exists, and also for that matter the potential benefit of heat pumps. Heating a home using an electric heat pump should use only about a quarter of the energy that heating it directly with resistive heating does. You can use renewable electricity for both of course but as with growing cops for ethanol there is a lot of hidden
carbon being added to the atmosphere somewhere in the processes of making wind turbines, pv panels, tidal barrages or whatever. The combination of proper insulation and heat pumps for home heating must be fairly substantial.

n/a - E85 ethanol versus neat petrol test. - Terry W

Apparently it takes 6-9 months for a wind turbine in operation to save the carbon generated in its construction and installation. Even if wrong by a factor of two or three, it still seems like a good "green" deal.

Is ethanol carbon neutral - depends on whether all that goes to getting it in the tank is carbon neutral. In theory it may be possible - in practice it seems implausible.

I suspect the oil companies are somewhat cynical - they think they have found a way to convince the general public of their green credentials. Not really credible!!

n/a - E85 ethanol versus neat petrol test. - misar

Apparently it takes 6-9 months for a wind turbine in operation to save the carbon generated in its construction and installation. Even if wrong by a factor of two or three, it still seems like a good "green" deal.

If the turbine is next to your house and powers the house its a good "green" deal. If the turbine is in the North Sea and you want to use its electricity to power your car the deal is presently a lot less green.

n/a - E85 ethanol versus neat petrol test. - misar

The article quoted by the OP says very little of value about the environmental advantage of ethanol as an ICE fuel. The only thing it "proves" was already well known. If you drive, say, 1000 miles the total CO2 out of the tailpipe is not much less burning ethanol than it is with gasoline.

As others have said, the real difference is the amount by which obtaining and using the two fuels adds to sum total of CO2 in the atmosphere. Ethanol wins by a large margin even with the present relatively CO2 inefficient ways of producing it.

The fact that the article totally ignored the second aspect suggests the author decided what he intended to conclude before investigating the facts.

n/a - E85 ethanol versus neat petrol test. - edlithgow
Minor technical point. Was the car used capable of dynamically re-timing itself to exploit the probably higher octane of the E85? I would expect this to make a difference, but I dunno how general this capability is.
n/a - E85 ethanol versus neat petrol test. - focussed
Minor technical point. Was the car used capable of dynamically re-timing itself to exploit the probably higher octane of the E85? I would expect this to make a difference, but I dunno how general this capability is.

It was stated in the test report that the vehicle was a flex-fuel variant which should mean that it can detect the percentage of ethanol from 0% to 85% in the fuel and alter fuel delivery and ignition accordingly.

n/a - E85 ethanol versus neat petrol test. - focussed

The article quoted by the OP says very little of value about the environmental advantage of ethanol as an ICE fuel. The only thing it "proves" was already well known. If you drive, say, 1000 miles the total CO2 out of the tailpipe is not much less burning ethanol than it is with gasoline.

As others have said, the real difference is the amount by which obtaining and using the two fuels adds to sum total of CO2 in the atmosphere. Ethanol wins by a large margin even with the present relatively CO2 inefficient ways of producing it.

The fact that the article totally ignored the second aspect suggests the author decided what he intended to conclude before investigating the facts.

I suggest that ethanol at 10% inclusion in UK petrol will make very little difference to the sum total of CO2 in the atmosphere.

n/a - E85 ethanol versus neat petrol test. - sammy1

Only Britain could have a crisis with a shortage of CO2 soon hopefully to be resolved!

n/a - E85 ethanol versus neat petrol test. - FP

CO2 shortages are not confined to the UK. Europe has the same problem, which relates to the rising cost of energy, particularly gas.

n/a - E85 ethanol versus neat petrol test. - Xileno

Hopefully the CO2 shortage will begin to ease:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58641394