Just got my Saturday Telegraph here in SW France and I see, once again, HJ is warning against using supermarket petrol. Can I recount my personal experience?
Before I moved to France I ran a Honda Legend in the UK and always used Esso or Shell 95 unleaded - convenient and cost no more than at the supermarket. That car always ran brilliantly EXCEPT the one time I was in a hurry and filled it at a supermarket forecourt, when it didn\'t exactly misfire but didn\'t feel at all \'happy\' until it went back onto Esso. But during the many times we took it to France we always filled it with 98 or 95 supermarket unleaded (there\'s a big difference in fuel prices between garages and supermarkets over here) and it never missed a beat. Since moving here I have put supermarket 95 unleaded in our Volvo 940 2 litre, old Honda Civic Shuttle and, currently, Honda 2 Litre Accord Coupe, without - apparently - the slightest problem.
I can\'t really believe UK supermarkets can get away with selling an inferior product for the same price as a big petrol company forecourt. Based on my experience I have to give the same advice as HJ - but am I missing something?
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Didn't really think that I'd see a big difference but my 1996 100,000 Mercedes S280 petrol AND my brother's 1.6i 100,000 mile 1993 Vauxhall Astra BOTH show increases of at least 20% mpg when filling with Shell vs Tesco's finest.
Tried the test four times each. Same results.
rojer@lycos.co.uk
Astra, Renault 18, Renault 25 TXi, Astra Est, Passat Est, Mercedes 190E, Mercedes
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just a thought: could it be the case that some supermarkets have better petrol (with additive) than others?
El Hacko
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My Golf hates Safeways Petrol It hesitates when pulling away and returns a poorer mpg. Shell and BP for me. Best all roundere seems to be Shell. The performance returns to normal with 10 miles of filling up with the good stuff. Regards Peter
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... increases of at least 20% mpg when filling with Shell vs Tesco's finest.
Oddly enough, the only time I noticed surprisingly low mpg was after a full take of Shell, albeit from an 'out in the country' filling station up Weardale. I normally fill at Morrisons with the occasional Asda or 'well-known' brand if I need to. Noticed that my mpg had dropped to ~40 over a long run while I'd normally be getting 50. As others have commented I suspect it's more to do with the petrol station management than the brand and supermarkets are likely to turn over more than smaller filling stations.
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My Skoda gains an extra 20 miles or so per £20 fill using standard Shell unleaded over Safeways own.
I refuse to use Tescos petrol, as I had a load about two years back that clogged my Golf solid within 24hrs. When we took a sample out of the tank, it looked like soup, and completely blacked out a 2 month old fuel filter.
The carb had to be rejetted (after which it was never the same - good old Solex..) and Tescos refused to take any responsibility - they wouldn't even check the fill level of the tank in question at the time, in case it had run low and stirred up all of the crud at the bottom. The official line was 'well, we haven't had any other complaints', but of course, how many drivers with average technical knowledge would suspect their petrol?..
Interestingly, I was speaking to an employee of a well known recovery company later (as he was reattaching a driveshaft on the same Golf that had fallen off at the traffic lights following a clutch replacement by a VERY well known local Ford garage) and he told me he'd been called out to a Tescos a few weeks before because a driver had filled his brand new diesel up with petrol by accident. When he drained the tank, he found exactly the same state of petrol, so he took a sample inside to the counter, only to find *another* driver complaining about the same issue. As you can imagine, they were slightly less than interested. Not only that, but one more driver pulled in as he was packing up to leave, and guess what *his* complaint was?... :)
So, that was me out of pocket for the repairs and sworn never to use Tescos finest again.
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I suspect this would be poor local management of the storage tanks rather than a reflection on the quality of the petrol. I use any petrol going, and apart from an improvement when using Optimax, I can't notice any difference between brands. I'd use Optimax all the time if it was more widely available, but I've never had a problem that I can relate to fuel quality. I'd love to see some independant research done on fuel from different sources to see the long term effects of using cheaper fuel rather than anecdotes. Does any exist?
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I always used to use Safeway's diesel but I started using Shell diesel a few months ago and there is a marked improvement in performance and mpg. For example I filled up with Shell before going to France and averaged 46 mpg to my destination in South West France. Last year I averaged 42mpg on Safeway's diesel. On the return trip I averaged just over 41 mpg on French supermarket (SuperU) diesel, but then it's a lot cheaper. I run a V70 D5 btw.
Also I've started using Shell Ultra fully synthetic motor oil and it seems to stay cleaner longer than Mobil 0-40 between the 6k mile oil changes. Don't know whether that's a good or a bad thing!
VD5D.
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Clean oil isn't necessarily a good thing. As I understand it, one of the main functions of engine oil is to force the black nasties off the surfaces and into suspension. I was surprised to see fairly clean non-synth oil coming out of my car 3000 miles after it had been put in at a service; 2000 miles later, I was pleased to see the replacement Mobil 1 coming out darker, although not black. That told me it was doing the necessary.
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Carbon in the oil is a lubricant anyhow, and it means the oil is doing its job.
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>>I was pleased to see the replacement Mobil 1 coming out darker, although not black. That told me it was doing the necessary.
I'll use Mobil 1 next for the next oil change to see how long it takes for it to turn dark.
VD5D.
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My 1995 Polo did 104,000 miles on mostly safeway petrol.When I replaced it with a 2003 Golf it did not run well on this petrol at all hesitation under acceleration, pinking from the engine,I now use shell (normal not optimax) and it runs fine. umm strange that !!!
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In another thread on this subject, I said:
"I note that, despite repeated airings in this forum, no-one ever seems to have anything but anecdotal evidence. Has no car magazine or consumer organisation ever done a test on this?
My anecdotal evidence? I run an Omega (see thread on running costs in Technical) and I get 31mpg (almost exactly). For 4,000 miles I ran it on Optimax only and got 31.0, 29.4, 32.7, 30.6 for each respective 1000 miles. The rest of the time, it's on supermarket (Tesco) fuels 95% of the time. Hardly a scientific test, I know, but more evidence."
I don't doubt that it depends on the car you drive - some cars seem to tolerate supermarket petrol, others (anecdotally) don't. I still would like to see some scientific testing. Someone MUST have done it.
The thing that strikes me, though, is that people on this thread seem to be suggesting that Shell (for example) seem to know how to keep their fuel clean better than Tesco. Well, I just don't believe it. The days when supermarket fuel forecourts were an aside are long gone; it's now mainstream business for them. In light of that, I don't see why they are treated as though they know nothing. I don't see the average Shell employee as more capable than the average Tesco employee. Before anyone comments, my local Tesco has dedicated forecourt staff.
V
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Well here are some facts. I have done 50,000 miles with supermarket petrol, and never had a single problem. Nicolle has done 20,000 miles - ditto.
I did use two tanks of shell optimax, and altho the car felt a bit peppier and smoother running, was not enough to justify the difference.
I have now done 4,000 miles on supermarket diesel again trouble free.
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used tesco unleaded, ok with red line lead subsitute for yonks in my xr3 and now use tesco diesel in my merc270 never ever had a problem the times i have had to use the likes of esso etc have never noticed a difference.
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I live near Esso's fawley refinery in Hampshire.They have a swap deal with loads of other companies, Shell tankers come out as well as Sainsburys etc etc. To be fair the others add their own additives. The only Petrol I know of with no swap arrangement is Optimax as this is 98 octane. The British Spec 95 and 97 octane. Therefore all Optimax comes direct from Shell.
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Until i can see a scientific test then I don't believe that there is that much of a difference between supermarket and branded fuels.
These may well be the same people that think that the supermarkets have their own factories making own label bread, beans, pasta, vodka, lemonade etc.
All fuel stations in Scotland are supplied from the one refinery - Grangemouth. Yes, there may be additives etc put in by certain manufacturers but I think that if there was evidence that Shell Esso etc was scientifically proven to be better, they would be shouting it from the rooftops without a single libel case to worry about. They're not.
I
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I agree with Vin and BobbyG. If supermarket petrol causes a car to run badly then it must be possible to show what it is doing to the inside of the engine?
I always fill up on shell but only on HJ's advice. My previous car did a constant 50mpg with just about any brand that happened to be the next garage. My anecdotal evidence is therefore that there is absolutely no difference between supermarket and shell fuel.
Splodgeface
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I've done 60,000 miles now on Sainsbury and Safeway Petrol and get around 33-34 mpg constantly, my main dealer tells me thats good, when on hloiday in Lincoln a few weeks back all i could get was Texaco. (red light on, didn't know where a supermarket was) Pressed mpg button for next 400 mile I only got 28 mpg couldn't understand it! When I got back went over to Safeway, mpg went up to 30, then 33.
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As a previous post suggested, many of the faults may be down to the management at the filling station itself. The stations make virtually no profit whatsoever on fuel, and so I wouldn't think they'd be overly concerned about careful handling - the guy I spoke to said that their tests showed a remarkable amount of water and debris in the tanks of the cars they'd gone out to repair.
It's probably not the fuel so much as what's done with it.
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I've never had any probs with supermarket fuel (diesel or petrol)
eg.
Morrisons = Texaco
Total = Sainsburys
Jet = ASDA
I don't know whether this is a regional thing though, but I spent a lot of time involved in the fuel protests to see what goes on, and had family working for an oil company?
The base fuel is sent to the depot usually by pipeline, all products are sent down the same pipes, separated by 'slugs' of white spirit, this is detected by the systems, and diverted to the correct tanks. The white spirit and crossover is sent back to the refinery.
When a road tanker fills up with the fuels, suitable quantities of additives are introduced too,
What you will also see nowadays is a depot of a brand allow tankers from several other brands fill up at their depot, but add their own additive package to the base stock.
I'm sure there is a difference (not even all Texaco is CleanSystem3)
but it all meets the BS EN 228 which the vehicle manufacturers request.
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I have had no problems with Safeway's fuel, it's just that I seem to get slightly better mpg/performance with Shell. I still take advantage of Safeway's 20p/litre discount from time to time though.
VD5D
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