You have not indicated what the tyres are. If they are 'all season', it could be that the directionality is related to their performance in snow. Winter tyres will often have a tread pattern which is generally v-shaped with the apex to the rear. I suspect that this is to aid braking with the tyre acting like a mini snow plough.
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The spare may be directional , but what about the tyres fitted to the van ?
All the tyres on the van are directional. Fronts are Goodyear Vector 4S (All weather), rears are Nokian Weatherproof (all weather), the spare (which is the last of the set on the van when I bought it) is a Michelin Alpin 5 (I think this is classed as a winter tyre, but looks closer to an all weather tyre to me).
On a dry day, I doubt you’ll notice a difference having a tyre going the wrong way. If the tyres have to clear water, though, it’s a different issue - the tread pattern will be trying to clear water forwards instead of dispersing it with the direction of travel.
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From what I can remember, both from member's own experiences here and on various other forums and friends/family/colleagues over the years, there is a noticeable price to be paid if you fit directional tyres the wrong way around - mpg, wear but especially handling, particularly in the wet.
No rain forecast (up here in Aberdeenshire) till next weekend, so I shouldn't find myself driving on wet roads between now and having finished my 'round' for the month. But I'll see if I can get them fitted at some point before then.
The new set of four I have bought are Uniroyal Rain Expert 3. I have had Rain Experts before and was happy with them, but these look like a different design from what I remember of the last set. Not strictly an all weather tyre (which is what I have gone for the last few times I've bought tyres) but we'll see how they do.
Edited by badbusdriver on 18/07/2021 at 12:07
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Surely spare wheel from factory would have been non directional. ? Wheels have been swapped around during the van’s life .
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The new set of four I have bought are Uniroyal Rain Expert 3. I have had Rain Experts before and was happy with them
I had Rain Experts and was surprised to see they had more air than rubber in the tread. I couldn't use them on trials, as there's a rule that there must be less than 9mm between tread blocks. Despite that they seemed OK and definitely superior in the wet.
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The new set of four I have bought are Uniroyal Rain Expert 3. I have had Rain Experts before and was happy with them, but these look like a different design from what I remember of the last set. Not strictly an all weather tyre (which is what I have gone for the last few times I've bought tyres) but we'll see how they do.
Good tyres, and Rain Sports too, but did you pick up lots of stones when you had them before? I certainly did, due to that those wide spaces between the tread.
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On a similar note, I've often wondered why some types have an outside and an inside? Surely the wheel rim provides the same contact on each edge and the lateral movement balances out when cornering?
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Surely spare wheel from factory would have been non directional. ? Wheels have been swapped around during the van’s life .
I was wondering about that too, but the van is a 2010 (ex British Gas). I bought it late 2018, at which point, all the tyres were Michelin Alpin 5's. No idea what it would have come with, or if BG would have specified a particular tyre.
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What happens if you have a "coming together" with another vehicle. If insurance company realises the tyres are wrongly fitted could they, would they, refuse a claim?
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What happens if you have a "coming together" with another vehicle. If insurance company realises the tyres are wrongly fitted could they, would they, refuse a claim?
Almost certain that they'd at least try, after all, they don't want to pay out unless they absolutely have to. But at the same time, it is the 'spare' tyre, I only carry one, like most. So suppose I had a 'puncture', put on the spare to carry on my journey, was involved in an accident and the insurance company refuses to pay up because the directional tyre was fitted the wrong way. Would that be fair?. If there was a clear policy or instruction that any car with a full sized spare, must have a non-directional tyre on that spare wheel, fair enough, but I don't think that is the case?.
Might manage to get the new tyres fitted to morrow afternoon though, so fingers crossed.
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On a similar note, I've often wondered why some types have an outside and an inside?
That is important if the tyre is directional - you might put it on the correct side of the car, but if it is inside-out the effect will not be what you intend :-) A directional tyre shows direction of rotation - it should also show EXTERNO or somesuch when fitted.
And clearly if you swap your tyres around to even out rate of wear, directional tyres must stay on the same side of the vehicle.
Edited by Andrew-T on 18/07/2021 at 18:46
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Tyres can be directional or asymmetric but not both - directional tyres have arrows moulded indicating direction of forward revolution - asymmetric tyres have OUTSIDE moulded on the outer side.
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Wrongly fitted directional tyres are an MOT fail.
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Tyres can be directional or asymmetric but not both - directional tyres have arrows moulded indicating direction of forward revolution - asymmetric tyres have OUTSIDE moulded on the outer side.
Surely an asymmetric tyre is just a directional tyre under a different name?.
They both have to be fitted a certain way round (i.e, pointed in a particular direction re the tread) otherwise they won't work as intended.
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Tyres can be directional or asymmetric but not both - directional tyres have arrows moulded indicating direction of forward revolution - asymmetric tyres have OUTSIDE moulded on the outer side.
Surely an asymmetric tyre is just a directional tyre under a different name?.
They both have to be fitted a certain way round (i.e, pointed in a particular direction re the tread) otherwise they won't work as intended.
No - an asymmetric tyre has a different tread pattern in the inside compared to the outside - they function equally well regardless of rotational direction.
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Tyres can be directional or asymmetric but not both - directional tyres have arrows moulded indicating direction of forward revolution - asymmetric tyres have OUTSIDE moulded on the outer side.
Looking at this statement again, it struck me that the new Uniroyal Rain Expert 3 tyres I have bought, are both asymmetric and directional; Profil_rainexpert3_WM.jpg
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Tyres can be directional or asymmetric but not both - directional tyres have arrows moulded indicating direction of forward revolution - asymmetric tyres have OUTSIDE moulded on the outer side.
Looking at this statement again, it struck me that the new Uniroyal Rain Expert 3 tyres I have bought, are both asymmetric and directional; Profil_rainexpert3_WM.jpg
RT is correct with his statement. tyres can be Asymmetric OR Directional (but not both).
BBD the picture you have is of an Asymmetric tyre (it has OUTSIDE marked on it). There is no arrow showing the direction of rotation.
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Simple obvious solution to all directional assssymmmmettttry problems.
Don't fit them.
Of course IF already fitted, you have to live with it for a while. but at replacement time
JUST SAY NO
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<< an asymmetric tyre has a different tread pattern in the inside compared to the outside - they function equally well regardless of rotational direction. >>
Accepting this statement, what is the purpose of the asymmetry ?
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Suspension geometry tends towards a hint of negative camber - tyre and wheel leans in at the top. So during straight line running, and cornering in wet/low grip conditions, it’s riding more on the inside half of the contact patch, which, typically, has more water clearing capability.
On a drier road, with a higher coefficient of friction, the wheel/tyre will be pushed into a vertical or positive camber when cornering enthusiastically, and thus onto a tyre tread pattern less liable to ‘squirm’ as tread blocks deform.
So, in theory, better wet grip and more positive steering and handling on dry roads.
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The problem of the spare wheel has been mentioned, with what I believe is good advice to fit this with a non-directional (standard tread) tyre to avoid the 50:50(?) chance of having to fit a spare wheel with a directional tyre which is contra-rotating.
AA's updated advice of 28/12/2022 implies that a MOT tester should advise anyone presenting a car for test with a contra-rotating directional tyre on the car.
UK Government regs for MOT testers make it clear that this situation is not grounds for a Fail, though one often hears this stated.
To keep a spare wheel on a car with a contra-rotating directional tyre for any longer than strictly necessary is obviously potentially very undesirable. In tricky conditions (sudden need to swerve, brake hard etc), road holding/grip would be almost certainly less good, especially if the .spare was on a steered wheel (front wheels do over 80% of the braking). Tyre wear and noise would be greater.
That situation would make it an emergency spare - like a space-saver. Maximum speed 50 mph, maximum distance 50 miles, in order to get things sorted out at a tyre depot.
But what about the insurance position if you had an accident on your way to get the tyre situation sorted? I asked my company's underwriter. They referred me to the broker's claims department, who said that the accident assessor would have to consider whether the non-standard tyre fitment on one wheel had contributed to the accident etc etc.
The dreaded term "modification" (to the car's standard spec was voiced!
If your car has a full-size spare, and directional tyres on the road wheels, it's obviously attractive to have the spare shod with the same tyre.
If this is fitted for anticlockwise rotation (nearside of car) you have a better than 50:50 chance of being able to leave it in place as a road wheel without any worries - behavioural, or insurance-wise. But if the same spare needed to go on the offside I would worry - at least about "Sod's Law" intervening while was on my way to a tyre depot!
So i am forced to the unattractive conclusion that I should follow the good advice referred to at the start of this message - continue with a standard tyre on my spare wheel. That's particularly unattractive to me at the moment because, although the standard-tread spare tyre appears in good condition, and has a good tread, it's over 9 years' old. Rubber ages, even when protected (as on my car) from light and weathering.
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....... it's over 9 years' old. Rubber ages, even when protected (as on my car) from light and weathering.
I wouldn't worry. The pristine space-saver in our recently scrapped Focus was over 21yrs old. It still held its pressure for long periods - hardly surprising as only around half the pressure in one of my even older, thinner and much used bicycle tyres.
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....... it's over 9 years' old. Rubber ages, even when protected (as on my car) from light and weathering.
I wouldn't worry. The pristine space-saver in our recently scrapped Focus was over 21yrs old. It still held its pressure for long periods - hardly surprising as only around half the pressure in one of my even older, thinner and much used bicycle tyres.
I think users are more worried about sudden failure due to slow degradation and stress during driving, rather than ability to hold pressure - which is usually more about leaky bead or valve ?
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....... it's over 9 years' old. Rubber ages, even when protected (as on my car) from light and weathering.
I wouldn't worry. The pristine space-saver in our recently scrapped Focus was over 21yrs old. It still held its pressure for long periods - hardly surprising as only around half the pressure in one of my even older, thinner and much used bicycle tyres.
I think users are more worried about sudden failure due to slow degradation and stress during driving, rather than ability to hold pressure - which is usually more about leaky bead or valve ?
I suppose it comes down to how much degridation (and what, specifically) a spare tyre has. Most, though not all, are stored inside the boot (some under on in those boot door containers), this they should be shielded from UV and water, thus the only real issues are what the effects of temperature changes are.
In the past, most recommendations were to change out tyres due to age (if not used much) every 6 years unless specific signs of degridation occur - cracking on the sidewall, for example. Rcently that time length appears to be extending - for some at least - to nearer 10 years, but I'd bet that this is still contingent on the tyres being actually fitted (i.e. on the outside, and thus subject to weathering) rather than just in a underboot area cradle.
My car's spacesaver is now 17 years old, and superficially looks as good as it was when I bought the car when new. I wonder if any tyre manufacturers or independent testers have checked to see how older tyres like these have performed, esepcially those stored out of the elements.
Whether tests by manufacturers can be trusted - given they WANT to sell you new ones (whether full size tyres or (space-saver) spares, is another matter. It's why I don't entirely trust those contradictory reports on microparticle emissions from tyres comparing EVs and ICE cars. It's rare for a complely impartial, objective test / study / report to be done these days - in any technical field. There's almost always an agle or agenda behind it.
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On a similar note, I've often wondered why some types have an outside and an inside? Surely the wheel rim provides the same contact on each edge and the lateral movement balances out when cornering?
The tyre tread is optimised for different things on the inside, than the outside - during cornering the tyre's angle to the road alters as the car rolls.
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On a similar note, I've often wondered why some types have an outside and an inside? Surely the wheel rim provides the same contact on each edge and the lateral movement balances out when cornering?
The tyre tread is optimised for different things on the inside, than the outside - during cornering the tyre's angle to the road alters as the car rolls.
It's the main difference between a symmetric and an asymmetric tyre.
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I've noticed that one of the tyres on my new (to me) car says 'inside' on the outside. The car's going back to the dealer on Wednesday as the 12v sockets aren't working (I've checked the fuse).
I will certainly mention it, but am expecting the usual mystical language from the service manager way before the offer of a new Michelin tyre.
It's a good job they do these 9,584 point inspections before selling you a car isn't it?
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I've noticed that one of the tyres on my new (to me) car says 'inside' on the outside.
Not in any way related to this thread (or motoring), but that reminds me of when I cleaned a customers windows after they had got an extension which included an extra bathroom. I got the customer to come outside to look at the new bathroom window. It had a reasonably large sticker on it with this word, in red block capitols: INSIDE
:-O
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I've noticed that one of the tyres on my new (to me) car says 'inside' on the outside.
Not in any way related to this thread (or motoring), but that reminds me of when I cleaned a customers windows after they had got an extension which included an extra bathroom. I got the customer to come outside to look at the new bathroom window. It had a reasonably large sticker on it with this word, in red block capitols: INSIDE
:-O
D'Oh!
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I've noticed that one of the tyres on my new (to me) car says 'inside' on the outside. The car's going back to the dealer on Wednesday as the 12v sockets aren't working (I've checked the fuse).
I will certainly mention it, but am expecting the usual mystical language from the service manager way before the offer of a new Michelin tyre.
It's a good job they do these 9,584 point inspections before selling you a car isn't it?
I would insist they refit (including rebalance) the tyre so it says 'outside where it should. After all, what's the point in having an asymmteric tyre fitted if the benefits aren't realised?
You're lucky that they give the car a wash and vac these days.
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I was worried they (Michelin Primacy 3) were directional too, so it couldn't just be turned around. Seems not, so I will ask them to spin and balance it.aà
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