Having studied this forum it appears to me that either a Mazda estate (rare and hard to get hold of) or a Toyota estate appears to be the most reliable estate cars there is.
I have limited knowledge of Toyota's as I have only ever driven a Celica that a friend loaned me for a few months.
At present I have a Vauxhall Omega which frankly I cannot trust as it just one thing after another going wrong therefore I'm looking to trade this in for a Toyota Estate.
Camry's from what I gather seem to be the equivalent to the Omega but from what I know they have an extra seat in the boot. Is the seat removable and does the rear have a load cover?
I'm guessing the Avensis is a kind of Vectra equivalent?
As for the Carina I'm guessing again this is an Astra equivalent?
I've driven Vauxhall for years but anything newer than the 94 models seem to be nothing but trouble, hence my decision to change.
Ideally I'd like the car to have the following features:
2.0-2.2 engine preferably diesel
Automatic gearbox
Rear load cover
Air Con
Remote Locking
Alloys
I cover about 400-500 miles a week on average and so a reliable car is a must.
The bigger the car the better as far as I'm concerned but what really I would like to know is the differences between the 3 aforemntioned models.
Also anything to look out whilst inspecting these cars would be useful to know.
Many thanks
Daz
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Daz,
Firstly, what's your budget?
The Camry is indeed similar to the Omega. Estates are quite rare (I think they may have stopped making them some time ago). They depreciate VERY fast and can therefore be bargains.
Avensis is a Vectrra competitor. It's roomy and well specced. Petrol and the more recent diesel engines are good. Handling is rather wallowy. Depreciation is high. A new model came out a year or so ago.
Carina was the predecessor of the Avensis. Similar, but older and noisier - diesel engines not much good.
Hope this helps.
Peter
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Thanks for that, my budget is about £5k depedning on what trade I can get gor my N reg Omega.
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Daz
If you're after reliability, then Toyota is the way forward.
I don't have too much specialised knowledge, but that won't stop me from chipping in with my two penn'orth!
IIRC, the Carina was replaced by the Avensis so it should be about the same size.
Although the Avensis is the more modern car, I'd hesitate to recommend it. My ex-FiL is a Toyota mechanic and told tales of woe about Avenises (Avensi?). Basically, he said that he wouldn't touch a Toyota newer than 'R' reg, purely because they have far too much technical gubbins after that. One Avensis came into his garage with a fault that could have been easily repaired on a Carina. With this car, it was time for a new engine.
If you can find a Camry that meets your specifications then buy it (as long as it is a good 'un). Later model Camrys are going for silly prices as nobody wants them. I really can't understand that, as they make superbly reliable comfortable long distance cruisers.
Anyway, good luck with your hunt.
Cheers
Rob
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Cheers, that is very useful as I do want to get lumbered with a dodgy model again like the Oemag circa 96 with the ecotec engine.
Carina or Camry it is then!
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Daz,
I dont know much about the older Carina or the Avensis but the Camry is a very popular (one of the big four) family car in Australia, both in Saloon and Estate form (sedan and Wagon if you want to be strictly correct).
The Camry is quite rare here...I have only seen a few since returning, but in Oz they are very reliable, quite spacious. I have never seen the extra seats in the rear...must be an add-on. Certainly the Wagon I test drove while out there just had the huge boot. The 2.2l 4 cyclinder engine is a little underpowered in this size of car but the V6 is a peach...not sure if it is available in the UK. In Oz they are nearly all automatics.
cheers
Ian L
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Cheers, may have to go for the Carina then I don't think I could afford the insurance on a V6!!
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I'm suprised by Rob's comments.
Modern Toyotas come out extremly well in reliability and satisfaction surveys and they're better cars than older ones.
IMHO choosing a Carina over an Avensis would be perverse unless you're very short of dosh. The Avensis is more modern, better equipped and newer.
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I ran an Avensis Estate for 6 months/18000 miles - old shape 1.8 model. Bit boring to drive but totally reliable, room for loads of junk in the back and it did 40mpg no problem.
Can't comment on their technology being hard to fix as nothing ever went wrong!
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When u say boring to drive in what respect?
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Avensis is based on Carina underpinnings (with quite a few changes) - its not that spacious inside though.
Camry is a superb car - 2.2L cambelt engine or 3L V6. There have been problems with 'black sludge' in the 2.2 engine if oil changes neglected - so check service details carefully. Also problems with creaking front-strut top mounts and front shocks - not too serious, but check for noises over bumps and during hard braking. Otherwise incredibly reliable.
Camry is a best-seller in N America, deservedly so in my opinion. Snag is that in the UK people are more status-driven and would buy a small BMW over the Camry.
Don't rule out the Nissan Primera estate. Better handling than the Toyota Camry and almost as much room inside. Quite a popular car, so plenty of 'pattern' parts available - considerably cheaper to run than the Camry. 2.0 twin-cam 130BHP 16V petrol engine is superb and mega-reliable (chain driven). The 4-speed autos (if you can find one) are good too. I have seen 'R'-plate with 40k for £4000 at a dealers. There is a 2L diesel, but in my view its a bit 'agricultural'.
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Thanks, it is difficult to know what to do. I have to admit initially I quite liked the look of the Avensis and there seem to be plenty around for sale.
However, I bought a bum Omega model and did not want to get lumbered with another bum car as when I cahnge I'll be putting myself on the limit financially so to speak.
I too was under the impression Toyota's just got better and better but all these technical advancements surely means there is more to go wrong and things are more costly?
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Daz
Re "Boring to drive" - totally competent, just not much fun round the twisty bits.
Camry is a nice motor but might be a bit tricky to track down an estate?
Carina has a bit of a mini-cab image these days but will be cheap if you can put up without modern car conveniences. The fact that plenty of cabbies round my way still use 'em says something about their reliability.
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Cheers, now veering towards an Avensis!!
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Peterb: Robs comments are true unfortunately. My local independent Toyota garage told me that the Avensis? are more complex. Also, the parts seem to need changing more often since they are not as well made. I think it may be connected to the fact they are made in the France.
Looking at the Which? survey, the Avensis scored 96% on reliability and many other cars came out better. Anyway, these figures can lie anyway. Whether they are better than the older ones is a matter of opinion. Sure, they drive better, look better and have a better spec now, but they have taken a slide in their reliability since. Speaking to owners including taxi drivers confirms my points.
But, it seems that the newer they are the more problematic they are getting e.g. past R reg.
Personally, I prefer the camry?s as they have more durable interiors inc the trim and are very comfortable. They are ugly, but they are very cheap for what you get and seem to be reliable. The carina?s cost more and the trim level is quite poor. Also, the general build quality on the camry?s is much better. Also, they have less of the mini cab image.
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Well I actually own an Avensis estate 1.8GS and it has been excellent. Bought at 2.5 years old with 80K FSH and two years later and at 102K it runs like new. It has a/c alrm /immob two airbags and is very good on fuel 40mpg+.
Serving is reasonably priced and Toyota dealers are generally good. The only problem we have had was with the central locking unit which was fixed under warranty but I'don't think it would have been expensive. It has always started easily and has been 100% reliable.
The only downsides are space in the back - there are lots of other estates that offer more space and the handling is not the greatest. The 1.8 is also a bit under powered in hilly ares with passengers onboard. There is a 2.0 option.
I can't comment on the Camry as have no knowledge of one. Avensis is better than the Carina for obvious reasons. Lots of Avensises around for parts as they get older. I will run mine into the ground and then buy another Toyota.
It is not the most fashionable car but it will sit all day at 90mph and handle the sligs and arrows of two small children and for running costs it can't be beaten.
MB
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Avensis made in Derbyshire. Had no major problems with mine over 4 years, but that's anecdotal only, of course!
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>>I'm suprised by Rob's comments.
I was surprised when my ex F-i-L told me this. It wasn't just Avensises, but Yarises, Corollas and pretty much the entire Toyota range that had problems. Sure, most of the cars sold are good ones with relarively few problems, but when a car company is actively designing a car that cannot be fixed, you have to wonder don't you?
I stand by my earlier comments and if Daz can find a good Camry estate, he should go for it!
Cheers
Rob
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Do you need an estate or would a saloon or hatchback suffice? The Avensis estate has a high loading sill and the boot floor isn't flat - I would guess the Carina E estate will be similar. No idea about the Camry. Only point I would make is that I would guess that Camry Estate parts are expensive and possibly difficult to get now?
I think that there are better cars for your money to be honest. I think the Avensis is inferior to the Carina E - I think it's less roomy and it feels pretty horrible to drive.
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Do you need an estate or would a saloon or hatchback suffice? The Avensis estate has a high loading sill and the boot floor isn't flat - I would guess the Carina E estate will be similar. No idea about the Camry. Only point I would make is that I would guess that Camry Estate parts are expensive and possibly difficult to get now?
I think that there are better cars for your money to be honest. I think the Avensis is inferior to the Carina E - I think it's less roomy and it feels pretty horrible to drive.
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I take your comments on board, the lack of flat space is a concern, what estate would u recommend, reliabilty wise then?
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Daz - see my comment earlier regarding the Nissan Primera.
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Sell me a Primera then!
Why did u say the diesel was agricultural. As money is tight I quite fancy a diesel to take the sting out of petrol bills.
Currently I get 400 miles to £50 wheras my wife's Cavalier diesel does 600 on £40!
That's £35 per tank which works would almost pay off the weekly hire purchase!
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Diesel is OK, but a bit 'gruff'. The petrol 2.0i is so nice it would be hard to pass up on. The petrol 2.0i engine is the 'SR20DE' - as used in the 200SX sports and one of the nicest 2 litre engines around. It is also quite economical.
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Cheers, what years was this engine fitted to the Primera? also how big is the car compared to an Omega? Final q what economy does the engine produce?
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Sorry, I'm not a Nissan salesman and don't have level of information at my disposal. Check out Parkers online and HJ CBCB - there'll be some more info in there.
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The problem with the Avensis is that there's a high sill so you can't just slide in heavy loads - conversely a high sill is good from a safety point of view I believe! Also when you fold the rear seat the 'floor' slopes upwards rather than being totally flat. There are loads of Avensises out there - take a look at one at your local used car dealer.
Really depends what you plan to do - if you need to move bulky heavy loads around on a regular basis then the Avensis estate is not going to be good. If you just want a hatchback with a bit more loading room for the occasional larger load I'm sure it will be fine....
From a reliability perspective the Mazda 626 gets a good write-up - no idea how good the estate model is.
Have driven a Primera hatchback which was a nicer car than the Avensis but I found the seats uncomfortable over long distances (might not have adjusted it correctly though..) much better handling though.
One thing to watch when buying a used estate is to make sure it's not been worked to death by e.g. being loaded with photocopiers, computer hardware, by a sales rep/engineer. Take a good look at the loading bay to see if it's scratched badly - also check the rear dampers.
I would guess that Fords and Vauxhalls were more popular with the sales reps/engineers though.
I think you are looking at the correct models but if you can find one in good condition I would also consider a Ford Mondeo estate - won't be as reliable but parts will be cheaper....
good luck!
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