Are we talking Vel Satis or Avantime here?
Either way, you'd have to be astonishingly brave to take one on new. Whether or not these cars are competent is a side issue; the price, given that they're a re-hash of the Laguna platform, is astonishing, the image non existent, and the depreciation laughable unless you're paying.
I guess French manufacturers look at the relatively small investment involved as chicken feed offset by the domestic market and the loss of face if they stopped making 'em - if they're breaking even on a basic Laguna at ~£12k they must be making upwards of £10k on every top model sold to a private punter, even with a discount.
|
As befits my name its time i stepped in and defended Renault! On the whole I say that renault should be applauded. Over recent history they have not been afraid to experiment. They have allowed designers to express something different and pushed the cars into production. Sometimes it works Scenic, Laguna (it is pretty), Espace, Megane (ok jury is out on that one but its growing on me). Sometimes it does not, Vel Satis, Aventime.
I suspect given the very poor sales of all* French barges outside of France - they were trying to break the mould and create a new class or image. Ok its failed, but dont knock them for trying. If no-one tried to be different or improve we would all be driving Marina's..............................
*(ok C5 excepted, Citroen seem to doing well with a combination of price and return to traditional Citroen values - quirkiness!)
|
I agree,
French buyers are buy French which is why they have an indiginous
car industry (and why we don't perhaps ??), when you are in France next have a look at everything and anything, from drinks glasses to fighter aircraft generally French made, despite the propoganda in this country France has not gone down the homogonous euro-way keeping a distinctive national identity in everything they do...
Keeep it up Renault.
|
|
Even the French and Belgians won't buy that shed,and these days you do see alot more VW,BMW and MB on the roads in France.They also seem to have taken to the Yaris in a big way,Japanese brands having been very under represented in the past.
|
|
|
|
I'm surprised the C5 isn't seen as representing 'quirkiness' or 'traditional Citroen values'. After all, it's the only Cit left with 'proper' Citroen suspension and believe me, under that relatively uninspiring bodyshell there's enough quirkiness to sink a battleship!
Graeme :-)
|
|
|
Agree RP, Renault should be applauded for pushing the design frontiers. They may have failed with the Avantime but they sure got it right with the Scenic, a car that's changed the face of family car design. Also, hats off to Citroen for the DS, the GS,the BX, the XM, the Xantia etc etc. It's very trendy to knock French cars but my ZX was a far superior car to my Golf
Baz
|
The Avantime and Vel Satis can't even compete with other no-image large cars (Camry, QX, Omega) as past history suggests these others will be more reliable.
I actually quite like the Avantime but can't imagine ever spending my own money on one. The Vel Satis is much less pretty than the (2 door?) concept car on show in Renualt's Champs Elysees showroom.
|
This has all come up before but I'll add my 2p again.
I love the Avantime and given the opportunity I'll be having one parked on the drive. And seeing that they depreciate heavily, that's probably a possibility.
It's a sad old world we live in when any car that doesn't conform to the stereotypes is slated - I was wondering what would have happened to the Avantime with an Audi or BMW badge on it, but then the BMW Coupe (Z3 van type thing) hasn't really set the world on fire either.
They mightn't always hit the mark or be the most reliable but Renault and Citroen have given us some very interesting cars - Renault Sport Spider anyone? Who else does a Pluriel?
The Xsara was disappointingly boring after the ZX, and having been playing with a Scenic II this last week, it's not as interesting as say a Multipla or a Zafira as it seems to want to conform more to class stereotype.
Vive le France!
Lee
MINI adventure in progress
|
The Xsara may look boring, but a spell in the drivers seat and a country road will make you change your mind.
Ben
On my 3rd Citroen. Saxo, Xsara, C5.
|
|
|
|
snip
Swearing will not be tollerated - hence whole post removed. DD
|
|
that'll get you into trouble.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Being the owner of a BMW 330 sport and an Avantime 3.0 Privalege, i guess i am in a position to talk about the pros and cons of the avantime against a more traditional tourer.
On the cost frost I bought the Avantime [ex demo with 8k on the clock] for 14k, its alot of car for the price and it does have a presence on the road especially with the windows down. It grows on you hoenstly.
I have had no end of positive feedback once people get the chance to experience it. There are a few niggles but I alos have a few with the BMW. I admit the build quality is not a good as the BMW but at 14k it did not expect it to be.
I want to add that i plan to sell my BMW this year a space is an issue great news its three years old and i have only lost 14.5k on it!
|
As anyone who has seen my posts before will know, I am a great fan of Citroens (and Peugeots for that matter). Over a period of 17 years I have now driven/owned, over prolonged periods, two 309s, a ZX, a Xantia (which we still own) and now a C5. I did have also driven for a short period, a 505 and a 605. Whatever one thinks of the looks of the cars concerned, they all had good/excellent handling and excellent ride quality. Despite some minor annoying niggles with the ZX, they were/are very reliable. I was particularly impressed with the 605. Its looks may have been too similar to the 405 but it wasn't an odd looking car. It also had super handling (definitely not barge like) and ride quality, and bags of legroom in the back. Odd looks didn't stop the British public from buying Ford Scorpios, but then it is a Ford, so that's alright then.
At the minute I am looking forward to seeing the new C4 in the flesh. One thing for sure is that it will wonderful value for money and with the new 136bhp 2.0 HDI up front, it should be provide a rewarding drive.
I haven't much experience of Renaults, except for a short term with a Renault 9, which was a bit of a dog. For those who don't like the look of the new Megane hatchback, take a look at the saloon version, it looks much better than a Focus saloon to my eyes.
|
|
The reason the Yaris is popular in France is because it is made there. The french always put themselves first, even when they produce poor cars.
|
|
The question for me is why do they make RHD versions of the big barges? They don't sell here, and I can't imagine them selling many in Japan or down under.
|
|
|
The reason the Yaris is popular in France is because it is made there. The french always put themselves first, even when they produce poor cars.
Just like Brits have always bought Fords and Vauxhalls, because they think they are British cars made by British companies. In HJ's recent road test of the Nissan Primera you will see it is as British as any car that is currently manufactured. Designed in Britain, engineered in Britain and made in Britain (and, of course, owned by Renault).
At least Renault and PSA are truly French companies, so the French are supporting their heritage and their economy by buying these cars. Our car manufacturing heritage sort of drifted away (apart from Rover, which nearly did and which I hope keeps going).
|
Is this the same Sean that I think it is?
If so, didn't know you were back - good to see you!
HF
|
Is this the same Sean that I think it is?
HF, check the date this thread was started - 2003.
But yes, Sean is back, seen recently in Tech Matters, even though he did say that he would never grace these forums again - or words to that effect.
|
For the first time today I had a good look round an Avantime, I poked and prodded for half an hour and amazingly the Anti Renault views i've had over the years have wained a little bit more.. (again!) First it was the Vel Satis I drove for a day several weeks ago which left a deep impression on me, even to the extent of wanting one. Now it's the blue Avantime (why are they all blue?) has moved the emotions once again. I know 2 doors are no good for nothing, the fact of the freefall depreciation (who cares?) but for me it's the 'i'm different' statement you're giving out. You just know everyone going to look at you.
I loved the luxury interior, leather seats, Elevated driving position, Quirky dashboard, outrageous and bold looks etc etc..
In terms of making an impression this vehicle is in supercar territory.. I just know i'd feel good driving it and thats an absolute rarity with me and that very few cars do that. So it's another Renault that gets the thumbs up from me.
If you're a true petrolhead you have to admire a mainstream car maker like Renault for producing bold products like the Avantime/Vel Satis.
Just hope Renault family don't read this (still dislike the Megane dash mate)
|
I'd love an Avantime. But it's hard to imagine spending my own money on one.....
Does anyone have a feel for used prices?
|
Read what? (smirk)
I hated the Aventime when it appeared, I went for a prod and poke shortly after it came out and didnt like what i saw.
I have seen it on the road, been for subsequent prod and poke sessions and now love it! What a glorious beast it is.
Being passed by one is a "what the ???? in the mirror" and a "Woooooooo" moment as it appears and passes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
