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Service history - SLO76
Chatting to a good friend earlier today and the subject of cars as per usual crops up. He casually explains (after me enquiring about the cost) that he has never had his three year old BMW 435d serviced to date. Now this car is on a very costly PCP and will have to be returned at the end of year 4 in retailable condition and one thing the dealer will be looking for is the service history. I explained that he’ll be billed for it which will mean any saving will be wiped out as the car is now substantially devalued and no longer suitable to be sold as an approved used example meaning it’ll end up at auction despite him having looked after the body and interior to a very high standard. Who’d buy a 4yr old twin turbo prestige car like this with no history?

Now here’s the rub for the rest of us. I noticed in my latter years in the trade while skulking around auction halls (more for the chat and the cheap grub than actually buying owt) that the dregs of the industry were no longer attempting to mess with mileages in a big way. Yes you’ll get the occasional car having the last years mileage turned back to something close to the last Mots but big scale clocking is largely over, it’s too easy to catch them out with a quick Mot history check. Do watch for cars that’ve done a very low mileage in the last year however as it’s quite common to see maybe 10k or so scrubbed. You’ll see them having travelled mysteriously low mileages in the last year. There’s loads of dodgy firms offering “mileage correction” services and all of them should be jailed. There’s no reason to alter a mileage. But adding value by clocking is rare today. Faking service histories is however rife.

I’ve often seen cars that I’ve watched go through the ring with hardly a service stamp if any appear shortly after at a backstreet dealer suddenly with a full service record that’ll no doubt persuade a buyer to part with hundreds if not thousands (in the case of performance and prestige models) extra for a car that has in reality been neglected. It’s the new way to add value and is much harder to catch the rogue dealer at it. How do you prove who did it?

I used to work for a guy who bought a stamp on EBay with a random made up garage name on it to stamp up the book in his cars which were all fairly new performance models. He rarely kept them any longer than 2-3yrs but some poor soul would buy it thinking it’s a full history car. Another has a friend that works in a large national chain who stamps her book up before it’s returned at the end of contract.

Looking at cars for friends and family has shown few that have genuine or appropriate service records. I’ve seen prestige four wheel drives that’ve been “serviced” at fast fit centres and dodgy backstreet workshops neither of whom have the first clue what they’re doing with heavy metal like this. Often I’ll see small dealers stock that have all fully stamped up books all using the same stamp, even the books aren’t the originals but something easily bought online or through the trade and quickly stamped up to add value, one locally just hand writes in all the service books through his door and no one bats an eye.

Today few actually own a car from new, the vast bulk are rented on PCP or contract lease and the absolute bare minimum is done to them regarding maintenance and repairs. From cheap paint repairs to rubbish tyres and ignored servicing, buying a good used car is actually more difficult thanks to the modern way cars enter the market today. No one cares because it’s not their property, they’ll never own it.

Excuse the rambling but essentially what I’m saying is that you need to verify not only if a car has been clocked, been in an accident or if there’s any outstanding finance, you also need to verify (certainly in the case of high end stuff) that it’s actually seen spanners and fresh oil in its life. Look at the service book. Check the cars details inside, do they match the car? A common trick is to steal service books from other cars at auction and at other dealers to put in their stock. I’ve caught a fair few out doing this. You want to see legitimate looking dealer stamps but even that’s not enough on high end cars, you need to find out if that servicing garage even exists and if they’ve ever seen the car by calling their service dept to check their records. Don’t call the number in the service book, look it up online and call otherwise it’s likely you’ll be getting through to Joe Bloggs in the next office.

I’ve encountered loads of cases of this in recent years. One an E46 M3 BMW I was tasked with finding for a friend. While I was looking he found one in a private sale which I had passed by because it sounded wrong in the advert and the address was as rough as it gets. We turned up and were presented with a very tidy example with sensible miles and a full service record. A quick google of the supposed servicing BMW specialist however revealed that they’d never seen the car despite the multiple stamps in the book apparently from them. Another was a Lotus Elise again with a faked specialist history and a BMW 320d with a genuine main dealer fully stamped history book that was from another car. This one is quite common, I’ve seen it numerous times with service books that have been pinched from other cars either by the dealer themselves or the previous keeper to avoid a penalty at the end of their lease. It’s easy done, they go view a similar car and lift it. Many dealers I know no longer leave the service books in the cars for this reason.

As ever be wary. Everyone is out to con you. Whether it’s the dodgy backstreet dealer flogging high end prestige metal you shouldn’t even consider on your budget or the private punter who’s refused to maintain their hired car properly over the 3-4yrs they’ve been abusing it. Always do your homework and seek the advice of someone who’s seen it all before.



Edited by SLO76 on 06/08/2020 at 23:36

Service history - barney100

Very sobering, I have just bought a used Mercedes from a main dealer and as with my last one there is no service book. It is all on line but at least I managed to get detailed print outs of all the work done including a pre delivery major service. Obviously non maintenance contracts are cheaper than service included ones so as you rightly point out there a big problem for buyers of these cars.

Service history - nellyjak

A salutory reminder SLO... I think the car buying public has largely changed and now relatively few seem to have any clue as to the pitfalls and scams that infest the trade...often buying "blind" and simply accepting what's told to them.

In my time in the trade I witnessed some very "entertaining" things.!!!

I agree...DO YOUR RESEARCH.!

Edited by nellyjak on 07/08/2020 at 08:12

Service history - focussed

I have our cars dealer serviced and get the stamps in the service book as per usual during the warranty period. I service them after the warranty period has expired, and I have made up a stamp that reads "owner serviced - date - miles/km" and I keep the invoice for the genuine parts used in the vehicle records together with the service checklist. And for any job except oil + filter I keep the old parts to show to a future purchaser - an old habit of mine, my workshop service customers all got their replaced parts back when they picked up their motor. 99% just said to bin them -1% wanted to keep them!

Service history - John F

As ever be wary. Everyone is out to con you. Whether it’s the dodgy backstreet dealer flogging high end prestige metal you shouldn’t even consider on your budget or the private punter who’s refused to maintain their hired car properly over the 3-4yrs they’ve been abusing it.

I am second to none in my scepticism of the garage trade, but this is indeed a sad reflection of human nature. Thankfully, the presence or absence of a dealer/garage service history for our cars is immaterial as by the time they are disposed of they are so old it would make little difference. I do however record all servicing and maintenance done by me - but I certainly don't keep old brake pads!

Service history - Engineer Andy

A salutory reminder SLO... I think the car buying public has largely changed and now relatively few seem to have any clue as to the pitfalls and scams that infest the trade...often buying "blind" and simply accepting what's told to them.

In my time in the trade I witnessed some very "entertaining" things.!!!

I agree...DO YOUR RESEARCH.!

You also have to wonder at those web only or phone / tablet app-based car buying services where you don't go to check out the car before even thinking of buying. Too many people are naive these days when it comes to buying goods and services.

Service history - dan86

A salutory reminder SLO... I think the car buying public has largely changed and now relatively few seem to have any clue as to the pitfalls and scams that infest the trade...often buying "blind" and simply accepting what's told to them.

In my time in the trade I witnessed some very "entertaining" things.!!!

I agree...DO YOUR RESEARCH.!

You also have to wonder at those web only or phone / tablet app-based car buying services where you don't go to check out the car before even thinking of buying. Too many people are naive these days when it comes to buying goods and services.

I could never buy a car without seeing it in the metal first and without having a good look over it and any paper work it came with.

Service history - Avant

Maybe what used car buyers need to demand now is 'full online service history' as with Barney's Mercedes.

There aren't many things that can't be falsified, but one would hope that online service records are less susceptible than service books, provided that there isn't someone corrupt within a main dealer.

Service history - Trilogy.

These days, rightly or wrongly I tend to take more notice of MOT history than service history. All my last 3 purchases had receipts to back up the information in the service book.

In due course I'll be looking for a replacement for the 1998 Saab 9-3. The process will be done with the same diligence as usual. It could take months.

Service history - craig-pd130
Chatting to a good friend earlier today and the subject of cars as per usual crops up. He casually explains (after me enquiring about the cost) that he has never had his three year old BMW 435d serviced to date. Now this car is on a very costly PCP and will have to be returned at the end of year 4 in retailable condition and one thing the dealer will be looking for is the service history. I explained that he’ll be billed for it which will mean any saving will be wiped out as the car is now substantially devalued and no longer suitable to be sold as an approved used example meaning it’ll end up at auction despite him having looked after the body and interior to a very high standard. Who’d buy a 4yr old twin turbo prestige car like this with no history?

Wise words, SLO. BMW no longer issues service books, the main dealers simply keep a record of each car (well, supposedly, anyway).

What's silly about your friend's situation is, BMW's variable service regime isn't particularly expensive. In fact, the 'minor' and 'major' inspections are pretty much a fixed cost, irrespective of whether the car is a 116i or a high-end variant.

For example, my 225xe was on company contract hire, and on variable servicing. In the 3 years I had it, it needed only one service (at 2 years / 18K miles). That service was a 'minor' (basically, oil / filter change and a plug into the OBD port). £270 all in. The car went back to the lease firm with the next service due in 2021 at 35,000 miles. That 'major' service would be £430. The cost for all minor and major services are pretty close across the BMW range and BMW dealers in the UK.

Putting aside the merits or otherwise of BMW's variable servicing, your friend would probably only have needed 2 services in 4 years (i.e. a cost of about £700) to avoid the upcoming hassle with the lease firm - that's around £3.50 per week. Which is trivial compared with the lease cost, insurance etc.

Service history - _

Once, I was "asked" to stamp a service book for an elderly range rrover by a customer, who just happened to be a diplomat in geneva, when I worked there.

After discussion with the workshop manager, declined.Shorly afterwards someone else bought it privately and turned up will a list of faults. When i pointed out that the service history (not stamped by us ) was false all hell broke loose, with said diplomat writing a letter to my boss.

But the Swiss market in those days was full of cowboys and even main dealers had a excess sytem on used cars sold..

Service history - Andrew-T

All useful knowledge. It's good news that online MoT histories have largely killed off electronic clocking - the only valid excuse for this might be replacement of a failed odometer. Another point in favour of buying privately, when one should be able to learn more about a car, and assess the trustworthiness of the seller.

But I think a savvy buyer might detect a falsified set of service stamps - a genuine series would vary in colour, intensity and probably handwriting. Only a very thorough scammer would make the effort to achieve that.

Service history - catsdad

Electronic service record updates are open to independent traders too for some makes. I assume they can’t falsify dates but just beware that the entries may not reflect that manufacturer services were done to spec. You still need your wits about you.

Service history - Nomag

Thanks for this useful insight.

I do maintain a dealer service history for our cars whilst they are under warranty. I don't, however, think it's fair to brand all "back street garages" as incompetent in servicing modern/expensive vehicles.

My personal experience of main dealers for servicing has been mixed but some are downright incompetent, particularly at fault diagnosis, which is what you would hope they would be good at! Routine servicing at main dealers as we all know boils down to oil and filter change, brake fluid every 2 years, and the odd pollen filter/air filter. Nothing that a reputable "back street" garage can't do providing they use the correct oil.

If you were to see the "back street" garage I have been using for many years local to my work you wouldn't naturally take your car there...wooden shed, no signage, but there service was always second to none, knew what they were talking about and happy to recommend an alternative place if it was a job they couldn't cope with/didn't want to do.

Service history - _

As I have written on previous posts, I have seen a collection of brand new oil filters in the oil change bay, customers charged for items not fitted and work not done. In surance companies billed for crash repairs not done, non genuine parts fitted and charged at full price, and I AM talking exclusively of main dealers.

Service history - pd

Truth is, out in the real world, service history is not a big seller. It is something punters are vaguely aware of but often only give it a cursory glance or mention it after they have paid for a vehicle.

Trust me if you have one fully historied car but it has cloth seats, boring wheels no nav and is in dark green compared to one in a nice colour with leather, nice wheels and spotify on a screen but no history the one with history will be sitting there for months whilst the other one will fly off.

Digital service records are useful but cause problems once a car gets out of main dealer network and there is nothing to stamp. I know independents can update some now but most don't.

It can work both ways. I have a car sitting outside which came in last week with no history whatsoever. However I did some digging and phoned the MOT garage which said the last owner was utterly fastidious and they'd done everything to it. However, they have no records they can send me and I have no paperwork. So I know it has been looked after better than 95% of the other examples out there but how to prove?

Service history - RT

I gather some manufacturers charge independents to access/update service histories - my VW Touareg is getting to the point of transfer from VW franchised servicing under warranty onto an independent VW specialist who made clear that updating the electronic service record will incur an extra charge - but still cheaper than a VW dealer.

I did have an "interesting" conversation this morning while trying to book my final VW dealer service - the VW website quotes a fixed price for a Touareg minor service as £204 (£184 for other VW's) but my local VW dealer has a fixed price of £249 - in the end they agreed to honour the VW price, probably realising I'd go elsewhere rather than pay their figure - this was only an "oil change" service anyway but some warranty work is needed as well.

Service history - Oli rag
It sounds as though your friend with the 3 year old 435D has taken a big risk SLO. They have possibly saved money on the non servicing, but maybe not as much as they’ll be charged for the lack of history.

There’s also the possibility that a major failure ( engine, turbo etc) might have or may still occur and I suspect they would be on their own to pick up the tab.
Service history - Engineer Andy
It sounds as though your friend with the 3 year old 435D has taken a big risk SLO. They have possibly saved money on the non servicing, but maybe not as much as they’ll be charged for the lack of history. There’s also the possibility that a major failure ( engine, turbo etc) might have or may still occur and I suspect they would be on their own to pick up the tab.

A former colleague, who also owned a BMW diesel, had a similar laz attitude to maintenance, and found out the hard way when his engine expired on his driveway, despositing the oil all over the drive and ruining that as well.

Service history - Andrew-T

Trust me if you have one fully historied car but it has cloth seats, boring wheels no nav and is in dark green compared to one in a nice colour with leather, nice wheels and spotify on a screen but no history the one with history will be sitting there for months whilst the other one will fly off.

Presumably this reflects the large number of cars on PCP or lease, which are not seen as personal property, so as selling on is not a worry, keeping useful paperwork may be overlooked. And I suspect not a few traders deliberately 'lose' paperwork anyway.

In the last few years I have privately bought two elderly Pugs, a 205 and a 306. A previous owner of the 205 had bought the shell and fitted a replacement engine, so there were zero docs and the MoT mileages did not represent the mechanicals - but the car is remarkably undeteriorated. The 306 had been in a 'collection' for several years but came with a complete service record since 2007 - and I mean complete! Both cars were gratifyingly good buys, but of course not comparable with SLO's scenarios above.

Service history - sammy1

hatting to a good friend earlier today and the subject of cars as per usual crops up. He casually explains (after me enquiring about the cost) that he has never had his three year old BMW 435d serviced to date

No mention of the mileage covered in the 3 years. As you know with BMW the car's computer is telling you when to service it. So if the driver looks after it and is not hard on the brakes then it is reasonable that nothing else would be required other than perhaps an oil change so perhaps one oil service missed. Agree that it is silly not to service on time but doubt he has car on PCP with a very high mileage so hardly a hanging offence but you cannot win with leasing

Service history - dan86

Thanks for this useful insight.

I do maintain a dealer service history for our cars whilst they are under warranty. I don't, however, think it's fair to brand all "back street garages" as incompetent in servicing modern/expensive vehicles.

My personal experience of main dealers for servicing has been mixed but some are downright incompetent, particularly at fault diagnosis, which is what you would hope they would be good at! Routine servicing at main dealers as we all know boils down to oil and filter change, brake fluid every 2 years, and the odd pollen filter/air filter. Nothing that a reputable "back street" garage can't do providing they use the correct oil.

If you were to see the "back street" garage I have been using for many years local to my work you wouldn't naturally take your car there...wooden shed, no signage, but there service was always second to none, knew what they were talking about and happy to recommend an alternative place if it was a job they couldn't cope with/didn't want to do.

Its the same story with the small garage I have been using for a number of years. The service is excellent and they owner is extremely knowledgeable and has always been honest with me. But to look at his workshop its just a shed with a pit but inside he has all the latest diagnostic equipment.

Service history - SLO76
“ I don't, however, think it's fair to brand all "back street garages" as incompetent in servicing modern/expensive vehicles.”


Not all are, just the majority and that’s why I quantified it with the word dodgy. There are good backstreet garages but sadly they’re in the minority. The best mechanics would rather work in the better paid and more comfortable surroundings of a main dealer if possible plus they’re required to be trained on new technologies and new models. The dealers also have the correct equipment and tools to diagnose and fault find their products while most backstreet garages have to borrow or botch.

A good independent is however vital when it comes to keeping an older used car on the road but I’ve seen the practices in most of them and you’d be horrified to witness much of it. A simple petrol engined car is of less risk while using these guys but a complex prestige turbocharged SUV or exec could be seriously damaged by one practice in particular. The bulk of the independents I’ve known over the years bulk buy oil in large drums and use a one size fits all approach. They don’t bother checking what oil your twin turbo £50,000 BMW needs, it’s just bunged in same as they’d do with an £800 Corsa. Cars are very oil specific these days and this is the cause of many a premature failure, particularly timing chains and turbos.

I use a good independent to maintain my old Toyota and I use a local VW/Audi specialist for the Polo. Both are honest, good value and the work is done to a very good standard but out of all the garages in my local area these are about the only two I’d recommend and again I wouldn’t send a complex prestige car to either.

Edited by SLO76 on 07/08/2020 at 14:58

Service history - Manatee

The other side of the coin is that servicing is pretty poor value because they do very little and charge a lot. Our Roomster has seen five years of dealer servicing, in May each year. Delayed this year because of COVID. The dealer has been chasing me, and I asked them how much they proposed to charge.

£280 for air, pollen and oil filters, oil change, and "inspection". I've bought Bosch filters for £32 delivered, and good oil for £23. I'll take it to the independent at the end of the road. I've also bought a full set of Pagid discs and Textar pads for £130 or so as I will have them service the brakes (which the main dealer will never have done) so they might as well fit them and the brakes should be good for another 6 low mileage years.

My Mazda is also having dealer services (warranty expired this year). I took my own oil for that and saved about £70.

I shall apply myself to seeing what I can save on the Mitsubishi service in December. They charged me £380 for replacing a key lost in a recent house fire (which the house insurers wouldn't pay for).

Service history - Xileno

I suppose it's the same with any business, where you have people you have different attitudes and competences. No different to the white-collar professions. Despite living in a small market town in deepest Wiltshire, we are very well catered for regarding independent specialists: VAG, Renault, PSA, BMW, Ford and an excellent 'Any Make' place.

Service history - madf

I diy and keep files of receipts and update service books manually.

The stories of utter incompetence by garages on fault finding that I read on forums are staggering..

Obviously some garages don't understand modern electronics.

When buying cars, I always look for bills, MOT history and obvious things like tyre pressures, colour of filters ( a dirty air filter tells its own story) etc..

Usually owners who neglect servicing neglect tyres/wiper blades etc..