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I find the whole thing about Advisories a pointless mystery - many items on a car are subject to wear, so why is it necessary to "advise" that an item is worn but not excessively - either it's ok to carry on using or it isn't, it should be black or white.
I'm presently trying to source another car, it'll be older so the MoT History Check is very useful, or would be if Advisories were either more consistent or abolished altogether.
The worst I saw was "brake pipes covered in grease" or words to that effect - so what should owners use to stop brake pipes corroding?
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Performance in the dry is going to improve as tread depth declines, and will go on improving until the belts start to show, especially considering that the interior compound is softer and therefore stickier.
Would be nice in a perfect world but it does not work like that.
Everytime the rubber heats up it hardens slightly and that not only applies to the rubber on the surface, it affects the whole tyre including the carcass. I remember an article many years ago in a magazine (back in the days they actually did tests) when they tested the hardness of tyres form new to worn out using a durometer and the difference was drastic, the old tyres were essentially rock.
About 20 years ago I bought a set of Bridgestone tyres (think it was the RE720) which were sold as dual compound. The idea was there was softer rubber inside that came to the surface as the harder older rubber wore away which in theory gave an old worn out tyre exactly the same grip as a brand new one. They were in all honesty brilliant, had 2 sets eventually but after about 5 years they stopped producing the dual compound tyres and have, as far as I am aware, not repeated it. I presume the buyers did not understand how it was better but buyers did understand that they did not last as long as tyres that slowly turned to concrete.
In enthusiastic driving a half worn tyre will feel better than a new tyre because there is less tread squirming about. Whether that half worn tyre grips better is something to be tested on a track and not on the road.
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Only MHO and no science behind it but I change when the tyres register 2mm. Used Michelin on my last car 7 sets plus originals for 215K miles approx. Current Volvo XC60 has Pirelli and at 26k miles they still have over 4mm of tread. I swap the wheels around to even out wear. I am fairly conservative when driving and treat all my cars with respect and care. It does pay off. SWMBO had my old Honda Accord ex company car. I put new tyres on and they were still on when it went the journey. At least 10 years old I would say and still in good nick. It was garaged and driven carefully. Can't remember which brand they were but they weren't premium tyres. I agree that it is important to check these things yourself regularly. The tyres are your only contact with the road surface after all. Not worth taking a risk you don't have to.
Cheers Concrete
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Another vote here for 2mm or thereabouts. Change when there's a bit left over the level of the wear indicators.
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Another vote here for 2mm or thereabouts. Change when there's a bit left over the level of the wear indicators.
Perhaps Motability should adopt that as well.
Our next door but one neighbours had a Motability car, well it was their son (paralysed aged 16 when knocked off his moped by a drunken lady) who had the car and they used to tow a caravan on holidays. Just before they were due to set off he went to the Motability approved tyre place (pretty sure it was Kwik Fit) to get the tyres renewed since there was no way there was enough tread to get them back home after a 1000+ mile drive. The tyre place would not change them and after speaking to Motability they would not approve a change until they met the criteria. 1/2 way through the holiday they had to find an approved tyre depot and get all 4 changed.
What a ball ache.
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Another vote here for 2mm or thereabouts. Change when there's a bit left over the level of the wear indicators.
Perhaps Motability should adopt that as well.
Our next door but one neighbours had a Motability car, well it was their son (paralysed aged 16 when knocked off his moped by a drunken lady) who had the car and they used to tow a caravan on holidays. Just before they were due to set off he went to the Motability approved tyre place (pretty sure it was Kwik Fit) to get the tyres renewed since there was no way there was enough tread to get them back home after a 1000+ mile drive. The tyre place would not change them and after speaking to Motability they would not approve a change until they met the criteria. 1/2 way through the holiday they had to find an approved tyre depot and get all 4 changed.
What a ball ache.
Motability changes them at 2mm already.
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Performance in the dry is going to improve as tread depth declines, and will go on improving until the belts start to show, especially considering that the interior compound is softer and therefore stickier.
Would be nice in a perfect world but it does not work like that.
Everytime the rubber heats up it hardens slightly and that not only applies to the rubber on the surface, it affects the whole tyre including the carcass. I remember an article many years ago in a magazine (back in the days they actually did tests) when they tested the hardness of tyres form new to worn out using a durometer and the difference was drastic, the old tyres were essentially rock.
About 20 years ago I bought a set of Bridgestone tyres (think it was the RE720) which were sold as dual compound. The idea was there was softer rubber inside that came to the surface as the harder older rubber wore away which in theory gave an old worn out tyre exactly the same grip as a brand new one. They were in all honesty brilliant, had 2 sets eventually but after about 5 years they stopped producing the dual compound tyres and have, as far as I am aware, not repeated it. I presume the buyers did not understand how it was better but buyers did understand that they did not last as long as tyres that slowly turned to concrete.
In enthusiastic driving a half worn tyre will feel better than a new tyre because there is less tread squirming about. Whether that half worn tyre grips better is something to be tested on a track and not on the road.
I had the same model of tyre on my old Nissan Micra around the same time - and they made a HUGE difference to the grip/handling of the car, especially in the wet, especially as the previous set of Dunlops were quite decent until age made them hard at around the 6 year mark (I wasn't complaining - I got around 40k+ miles out of that set!).
A shame I couldn't enjoy that extra feature you spoke of (I never knew about it and went for them as they were on offer for the same price [£35 each + fitting] as some Falkens and had great reviews) - a very interesting concept.
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When I ran a company car, the lease company would not pay for a tyre change
until one of the 3 readings was 2mm or less. The trye shop would say come back in a thousand or so miles. This often meant tyres having to be changed at inconvenient times.
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Here we are discussing a difference of 0.4mm hardly measurable across the width of most tyres. How science and authority came up with 1.6mm I do not know but most drivers adopt common sense as your 4 tyres are your only contact with the road especially in adverse conditions
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Here we are discussing a difference of 0.4mm hardly measurable across the width of most tyres. How science and authority came up with 1.6mm I do not know but most drivers adopt common sense as your 4 tyres are your only contact with the road especially in adverse conditions
It's the metric conversion of 1/16" - without the US authorities on board, it could never be agreed as a global limit - getting their agreement to increase it to 1/8" (3mm) is taking forever.
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Performance in the dry is going to improve as tread depth declines, and will go on improving until the belts start to show, especially considering that the interior compound is softer and therefore stickier.
Would be nice in a perfect world but it does not work like that.
It can work like that, though it wont always.
As I said, compound ageing is a separate issue, Tread depth is all about wet performance. If, for exampe, worn tyres had been worn out very quickly, by "spirited" driving, the rubber won't be as aged.
This has been tested with shaved tyres (and, as someone posted about recently is done in some race series) and shown to be true. Bald tyres are better in the dry, with age eliminated as a variable.
Interesting about the softer compound deeper in the tread. Hadn't heard of that make of tyre, but its general once you go beyond the tread, which of course you aren't allowed to do, and shouldnt in the UK, because it rains unpredictably. I'm '(I think reliably) informed the interior compound is softer because that runs cooler.
Edited by edlithgow on 21/07/2020 at 03:20
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Hadn't heard of that make of tyre,
Bridgestone is one of the largest (if not the largest) tyre manufacturer in the world. See link below.
www.bridgestone.co.uk
but its general once you go beyond the tread, which of course you aren't allowed to do, and shouldnt in the UK, because it rains unpredictably.
Its not just the rain that means that we should not run bald tyres in the UK. Its a legal requirement to have at least 1.6mm across the centre 3/4 of the tyre with visible tread on the remaining 1/4. Failure to do so could result in a fine of £2500 and 3 points per tyre, that would mean a potential £10000 and 12 points which should be a ban (no doubt some scroats plead hardship and get away with it).
It may be OK in some underdeveloped countries to have bald tyres (in Greece in the 80's even the Police ran on slicks) but give them a sudden storm and they crashed just as well as anyone else.
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It may be OK in some underdeveloped countries to have bald tyres (in Greece in the 80's even the Police ran on slicks) but give them a sudden storm and they crashed just as well as anyone else.
On a borrowed moped back in the 70s I was pulled over by a panda car for having a rag instead of a petrol tank cap. After a reprimand from a rather intimidating PC, I politely pointed out that his front tyre was half bald, presumably a tracking fault. Collapse of stout party.
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By make I meant way of making. Perhaps I should have said model,
I said the other stuff you say above, as in "aren[t allowed to", but of course its OK for you to say it too.
I think Taiwan has the same regs as everyone else, but with no sudden rain storms in the dry season. enforcement is probably more relaxed,
Out here in the sticks I'd probably get away with it, and if I didn't I doubt the penalties would be quite so severe.
I suppose I'd better cfheck befrore actually doing it. though
The argument that it is in fact safer would of course carry just as little weight in Taiwan as anywhere else.
Doesnt stop it being true though,
Edited by edlithgow on 21/07/2020 at 10:28
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Doesnt stop it being true though,
Always amazes me what some people will believe.
Do you read David Ikes books?
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Doesnt stop it being true though,
Always amazes me what some people will believe.
Do you read David Ikes books?
Uh huh.
I assume that's a snide crack (sadly par for the course) though I'm unfamiliar with the author.
Snide cracks don't stop it being true either.
To do that, you'd have to come up with, like, y'know, reasons?
Reasons I can think of might include the semi-bald tyre being more vulnerable to catastrophic failure. I don't know to what extent this is true, and I'd bet no one else does either.
To make it more dangerous in the dry, that unkown risk factor would have to be greater than any safety gain from the tyres known improved performance.
Is it? Dunno. And neither do you.
But I think my guess is at least as good as yours
Edited by edlithgow on 22/07/2020 at 02:26
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It may be OK in some underdeveloped countries to have bald tyres (in Greece in the 80's even the Police ran on slicks) but give them a sudden storm and they crashed just as well as anyone else.
I recall when I was in Madagascar a lot of cars running on tyres showing the base cords and no rubber at all. There was an equivalent of an MOT ... but alongside the testing stations were stalls with tyres for hire - it was customary to fit these for the test then replace the originals!
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It may be OK in some underdeveloped countries to have bald tyres (in Greece in the 80's even the Police ran on slicks) but give them a sudden storm and they crashed just as well as anyone else.
I recall when I was in Madagascar a lot of cars running on tyres showing the base cords and no rubber at all. There was an equivalent of an MOT ... but alongside the testing stations were stalls with tyres for hire - it was customary to fit these for the test then replace the originals!
Class. I'm sure some enterprising MOT tester could undercut them by taking a bribe instead.
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It may be OK in some underdeveloped countries to have bald tyres (in Greece in the 80's even the Police ran on slicks) but give them a sudden storm and they crashed just as well as anyone else.
I recall when I was in Madagascar a lot of cars running on tyres showing the base cords and no rubber at all. There was an equivalent of an MOT ... but alongside the testing stations were stalls with tyres for hire - it was customary to fit these for the test then replace the originals!
I used to do that with brake disks. One for show, one for go...er...stop.
Probably
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It may be OK in some underdeveloped countries to have bald tyres (in Greece in the 80's even the Police ran on slicks) but give them a sudden storm and they crashed just as well as anyone else.
I recall when I was in Madagascar a lot of cars running on tyres showing the base cords and no rubber at all. There was an equivalent of an MOT ... but alongside the testing stations were stalls with tyres for hire - it was customary to fit these for the test then replace the originals!
I used to do that with brake disks. One for show, one for go...er...stop.
Probably
That was in Edinburgh though. I'm not sure it qualifies as underdeveloped..
I did get a few MOTs done in Cumbernauld, which perhaps does.
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I find the whole thing about Advisories a pointless mystery...
The worst I saw was "brake pipes covered in grease" or words to that effect - so what should owners use to stop brake pipes corroding?
I'd guess the point there is it makes it difficult for them to check condition. I'm mildly surprised it isn't a fail, actually.
I've heard of fails for oil or WD40 treatment, which could look like leaking brake fluid.
What should owners use to stop brake pipes corroding?
They should rub with crumpled aluminium foil formed around the pipe with a little sunflower oil as a binder. Once it sets it looks quite like galvanising, and the tester will probably never know it was done.
Lasts a long time and easy to re-do if you are under the car, though of course it isn't a spray.
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They should rub with crumpled aluminium foil formed around the pipe with a little sunflower oil as a binder. Once it sets it looks quite like galvanising, and the tester will probably never know it was done.
The tester will soon spot that I am sure and it will certainly alert him to a bodge.
Brakes are safety critical. Owners should ensure that such systems are safe and I don't think aluminium foil and sunflower oil are MOT standard fixes in the UK.
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They should rub with crumpled aluminium foil formed around the pipe with a little sunflower oil as a binder. Once it sets it looks quite like galvanising, and the tester will probably never know it was done.
The tester will soon spot that I am sure and it will certainly alert him to a bodge.
Brakes are safety critical. Owners should ensure that such systems are safe and I don't think aluminium foil and sunflower oil are MOT standard fixes in the UK.
So what is the best way to stop brake pipes corroding?
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So what is the best way to stop brake pipes corroding?
I fitted new ones on one of our cars over 20 years ago, I used Kunifer but I took the old pipes to a local chap and he flared and fitted the right fittings for me.. As soon as they were on I coated them with Waxoyl (the clear one) and when I took the car for an MOT today they still looked as good as the day they were fitted.
If the tester wished to I would have no issue with him wiping it off with a little white spirit, I would simply re coat it when I got home. The current chap has been testing it for me now for about 10 years at least and has never raised an eyebrow.
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I wouldnt have thought you'd need the Waxoyl with Kunifer, though perhaps it protects the joint fittings.
I bought a roll of kunifer and a brake flaring tool when I was first back in the UK on a visit, but then I developed the oil-foil trick and havn't been able to justify using it.
GF brings it up regularly as an argument-winning example of the money I waste on tools that I never use.
Hmm.. maybe I CAN justify using it, on political grounds.
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They should rub with crumpled aluminium foil formed around the pipe with a little sunflower oil as a binder. Once it sets it looks quite like galvanising, and the tester will probably never know it was done.
The tester will soon spot that I am sure and it will certainly alert him to a bodge.
Brakes are safety critical. Owners should ensure that such systems are safe and I don't think aluminium foil and sunflower oil are MOT standard fixes in the UK.
So what is the best way to stop brake pipes corroding?
Corrosion resistant paint?
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So what is the best way to stop brake pipes corroding?
Corrosion resistant paint?
Cleaning and greasing occasionally is sufficient. That's what I do - never failed an MoT yet. Focus nearly 20yrs old; TR7, Ziebarted from new, 40yrs old. A bit of light corrosion is a green light for coining it for the unscrupulous garage. When I bought my Audi A8 it had already had an MoT advisory, at only 8yrs and 47,700 miles, for a lightly corroded brake pipe to one of the front calipers - which was enough for the previous owner to get replaced - and to be charged a fortune.
This sort of scam is a huge source of income for the garage industry which preys on the fears of a sudden brake failure, not mentioning that even in the unlikely event of sudden rupture, modern braking systems ensure that other wheels would be braked and the dashboard would have already come alive with red lights and bells as the fluid drained away. A bit of light sanding and a dab of Hammerite would have sufficed.
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They should rub with crumpled aluminium foil formed around the pipe with a little sunflower oil as a binder. Once it sets it looks quite like galvanising, and the tester will probably never know it was done.
The tester will soon spot that I am sure and it will certainly alert him to a bodge.
Brakes are safety critical. Owners should ensure that such systems are safe and I don't think aluminium foil and sunflower oil are MOT standard fixes in the UK.
So what is the best way to stop brake pipes corroding?
Corrosion resistant paint?
Paint is the last thing I would use. Unless the pipe is totally rust and contamination free it will not stay on and possobly make things worse with moisture trapped under the paint.
As I said above waxoyl (or other similar rust proofing wax) is without a doubt the best stuff.
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They should rub with crumpled aluminium foil formed around the pipe with a little sunflower oil as a binder. Once it sets it looks quite like galvanising, and the tester will probably never know it was done.
The tester will soon spot that I am sure and it will certainly alert him to a bodge.
Brakes are safety critical. Owners should ensure that such systems are safe and I don't think aluminium foil and sunflower oil are MOT standard fixes in the UK.
So what is the best way to stop brake pipes corroding?
Corrosion resistant paint?
Paint is the last thing I would use. Unless the pipe is totally rust and contamination free it will not stay on and possobly make things worse with moisture trapped under the paint.
As I said above waxoyl (or other similar rust proofing wax) is without a doubt the best stuff.
Indeed I was meaning put the 'paint' on when the pipe is new. What about that specific red coloured paint used by commercial fitters on HVAC pipes, particularly larger (steel) heating or chilled water pipes - that's an anti-corrosion paint I believe?
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They should rub with crumpled aluminium foil formed around the pipe with a little sunflower oil as a binder. Once it sets it looks quite like galvanising, and the tester will probably never know it was done.
The tester will soon spot that I am sure and it will certainly alert him to a bodge.
Well, if I ever have to get an old car through a UK MOT again, we can have a bet.
I'll give you odds if you like.
This assumes that the pipes arent really bad before treatment, While I think this treatment probably could hide fairly bad corrosion, that isn't what its for and isn't what I'm advocating,
Borderline-picky corrosion, maybe
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Just spotted the best MOT advisory ever. A couple of days ago I was sat behind a 55 plate Focus when it slowly dawned on me it was our old car, the one we PX'd against the Pulsar early in 2018. It still looked decent for what is now a 14 and a bit year old car so just been on .gov MOT check to see how its been doing.
At its last MOT back in December last year (which it past) there was an advisory for "engine noisy". Its a diesel, they tend to be. I followed the car for a couple of miles and there was no visible smoke (no DPF on that car) so I assumed at the time it was still in good fettle and since it passed the MOT it must have passed the emissions part. So what the hell was the noisy engine about?
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So what the hell was the noisy engine about?
Hangover?
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One of my first jobs on buying a car is to get some Waxoyl on the brake pipes. Any other areas of the underneath should there be any light corrosion I prefer Dinitrol. One of our cars is an old Focus (2007), it's spotless underneath, in fact at the last MoT the tester commented on how good it was.
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