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Engine braking, and how to prolong disc life. - John F

New thread, 'cos the 'no oil change in 5yrs' thread has drifted off topic......

I don't do engine braking (apart from on long hill descents), but I'm not hard on brakes either,

To 'engine brake' is absurd nowadays. No one in their right mind grinds down through the gears every time they approach a red light or go down a steep hill. And in automatics there is not much engine braking effect. Personally, I coast where possible for maximum fuel economy. Brake pads only cost a tiny fraction of a penny per mile.

In Scotland, this meant that I often had to replace the brake disks for successive MOT's, due to "visble rust".

A good example of sharp practice. Unscrupulous garages can send discs to the scrapheap with thousands of miles of use left on them. 'Visible rust' can appear overnight on new discs, especially in winter! By grinding off the lipping with a carborundum wheel and getting rid of rust flakes with a hammer and an old screwdriver on the edges and down the ventilation holes, front discs should last around 100,000 miles of normal driving, even in an automatic with a coaster driver. Always have done for me. And I don't think I have ever had to replace rear discs.

Engine braking, and how to prolong disc life. - gordonbennet

I'm afraid i was one who helped take that thread off course, not for the first time and probably not the last :-)

At work driving a lorry i make extensive use of auxilliary braking, a combination of down through the gears plus exhaust braking (literally a solenoid controlled flap in the exhaust manifold) and retarder on the back of the gearbox, so my use of the brakes, apart from in an emergency, on a good drive is only to bring the vehicle to a final rest and to try if possible not to actually come to a final halt at junctions whenever possible.

Obviously some of those things are not going to work on cars, however car driving techniques is now what it taught to lorry drivers, so sadly they are increasingly driven like cars, enough of lorries i hear you say.

No i don't go down through all the gears in a car to slow down, i will drop down one gear auto or manual (i don't have some fantastic 9 speed auto box), but i allow the vehicle to overrun as much as possible on a trailing throttle but still in gear, making use of momentum and if possible terrain to assist both acceleration and deceleration, this is plain simple good practice.

The trouble is so many drivers are unable to maintain decent progress, as power has increased massively on quite standard cars we now have heavy braking as the standard slowing process due to the excess speeds people are doing right up to the very last second approaching whatever junction or the back of a long winding queue of vehicle, its as if just allowing the vehicle to travel using its own momentum is no longer possible let alone a desirable state of affairs, and for every yard being travelled with one's foot off the throttle used no fuel...save for those who coast out of gear with the engine ticking over...but the fuel differences between the two techniques would be marginal.

Not only has performance increased but the power of modern brakes is possibly getting out of hand, in too many cases vastly overservoed (little pedal pressure required, so no feel) and i think people do not realise just how heavily they are braking nor how late they are leaving it, hence thick brake dust on so many front wheels.

Yes brake pads might be relatively cheap for us DIYers, but they certainly arn't for those reliant on the main dealer, who usually want to change discs at the same time, an operation which if on 4 wheels can be £500 for quite a normal car and considerably more for upmarket makes.

i have waffled enough here so will make another post with my suggestions for making discs last longer...i can already hear the groans .:-)

Engine braking, and how to prolong disc life. - gordonbennet

Brake discs, another fairly cheap disposable friction material for many of us, not so cheap for those reliant on dealers.

I think the secret is to use not neglect your braking system, which is exactly what most people do, this is especially important during the approaching winter season when road salt does its best to destroy our vehicles.

Cleanliness, when you wash your car don't be afraid to rinse the brake discs and calipers off in winter especially, leaving salt to do its worse will not only attack the discs themselves it will cause (especially unlubricated) calipers/sliders/pistons to stick and eventually seize, which then wreck your discs in no time due to heat when the brakes don't release properly, or you end up with seized sliders or one piston, if opposed design, so that brake is effectively operating on one piston pushing against one side of the disc instead of two camping equally...when that happens the unswept side rots away, i've seen many instances of this on the inside sides of rear discs mainly, where huge pits of rust have formed.

Maintenance, every other year at least, the pads need to be removed, everything cleaned and inspected, pistons exercised, pistons and sliders lubricated with the correct brake grease, and don't forget to check the pads are a cosy but free to move as they wear fit in their places...sometimes corrosion starts to form on the caliper itself and sometimes those stainless steel fittings the pads slot into need to come off, the corrosion uner them removed and then refitted, if not the pads can become too tight in their places and once again dragging or sticking happens.

Paint, it won't do any harm at all to paint the non friction areas of your brake discs/drums, as well as the calipers, not only do they look nicer (i use black gloss) but if there is rust forming on the friction areas it stands out more assuming you don't have wheel covers, so you maybe might take more interest in why its rusting, just a thought...i also paint the outer edge of the disc with the ventilation gaps which John refers to, helps delay rust build up.

Driving, i try and make sure i use the brakes as gently as possible most of the time, but every now and again they need a jolly good hard brake to clean everything up and deglaze, after driving in wet weather, especially through salty water, try and brake fairly hard just before your get to your destination so that wet salty water isn't left on the friction surfaces to do its worse.

Unless its being parked up for a long time, i don't usually bother about drying clean water off after washing the cars, but if you were popping to the supermarket anyway then the journey certainly won't do any harm to dry them off.

Even if you don't wash your own cars normally, the occasional rinse off of the whole underside of your car with the hose pipe whilst still wet during the winter, and an especially good wash down underneath once all the salty has gone in the spring is very good practice, those who pooh pooh this you usually find replace their cars with new or newish ones regularly, long term corrosion prevention is not an issue for them.

sorry about the long posts.

Edited by gordonbennet on 21/09/2019 at 12:01

Engine braking, and how to prolong disc life. - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

Yesterday evening I drove to and from Matlock, twice, on the A632. The hills on the main road need the gears and constant braking to control the speed. Even in Matlock itself 3rd gear at 30mph needs constant braking effort. And going down Slack Hill needs constant effort to keep the speed down to 60mph even when in 5th gear. I once passengered down that hill in a 1936 Alvis Silver Eagle- in neutral it hit an indicated 85mph.

Engine braking, and how to prolong disc life. - mcb100
‘Personally, I coast where possible for maximum fuel economy. Brake pads only cost a tiny fraction of a penny per mile’.
I’d be interested in a definition of ‘coasting’. In neutral (the usual definition of coasting) or still in gear?
Engine braking, and how to prolong disc life. - corax
‘Personally, I coast where possible for maximum fuel economy. Brake pads only cost a tiny fraction of a penny per mile’. I’d be interested in a definition of ‘coasting’. In neutral (the usual definition of coasting) or still in gear?

Already discussed, save the sanity of forum members and read this.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=86509

Engine braking, and how to prolong disc life. - mcb100
Point taken. I will add a quick update, however, in that driving a new Mazda3 recently it can display cylinder activation/deactivation on the nav screen. When going downhill with no accelerator input and in gear, all four cylinders are deactivated (hence no fuel). Press the clutch and all four fire up again, burning fuel. I’ll leave it at that...
Engine braking, and how to prolong disc life. - John F
I’d be interested in a definition of ‘coasting’. In neutral (the usual definition of coasting) or still in gear?

Already discussed, save the sanity of forum members and read this.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=86509

Gosh, nine years have sped by since this two week debate. Coasting is indeed in neutral -and, fairly obviously, saves fuel. And hardly a mention of the various technical settings manufacturers employ for their over-run fuel cut off implementation - which was of course a red herring and irrelevant.

Engine braking, and how to prolong disc life. - gordonbennet

And hardly a mention of the various technical settings manufacturers employ for their over-run fuel cut off implementation - which was of course a red herring and irrelevant.

You are such a tease John :-)