A pure EV does use the high-voltage battery for heating, etc. Once it's flat, that's your lot.
Hybrids and plug-in hybrids can burn petrol when the main battery flattens.
Thats one reason why I doubt EVs will take off in respect of buyers unless they drive in town all the time.
at least you can trust a Hybrid to keep you going untill the engine runs out of fuel and batteries run flat, which gives companies a chance to improve EV batteries
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Don’t assume a petrol will keep going until it runs out of fuel.
I’ve been stuck in traffic for hours due to snow and more than one car had battery failure as tickover wasn’t enough to provide enough power to keep the car running.
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Don’t assume a petrol will keep going until it runs out of fuel. I’ve been stuck in traffic for hours due to snow and more than one car had battery failure as tickover wasn’t enough to provide enough power to keep the car running.
I was under the assumption that the engine adjusted revs according to electrical power needed, if that is not the case their is no point in having a hybrid.
I would have thought the generators (depending on motor ie may only be one) were capable of generating what is needed in a car no matter what the current draw is?
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I've owned an old banger which had no functioning heater. Even in moderate Autumnal weather I can assure you 40 miles at 70mph and the cabin is like a fridge. Riding a bike was actually warmer because you wear more clothes.
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I've owned an old banger which had no functioning heater. Even in moderate Autumnal weather I can assure you 40 miles at 70mph and the cabin is like a fridge.
I had a Vauxhall Viva that had no heater, it had been bypassed because the matrix had a leak, almost in the same weather so I know what its like to be without one
I used a hairdryer in the morning to defrost the windscreen for a week untill I fixed it, in those days a typical Vauxhall!
It puts you off Hybrids though if they cannot cope with electrical demand, if, whats said is true?
global warming or not, a motor should be capable of surviving the worst of our weather imo.
Edited by bolt on 03/03/2018 at 20:22
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Surely the point here is that they didn’t heed the well published warnings on weather conditions.
Of all the much published reports of stranded motorists over the last few days I have seen nothing to suggest that they were just unfortunate to find themselves in those conditions. The warnings were there they just chose to ignore them and in doing so put others at risk. Some even complained that they didn’t see any police trying to help them, unbelievable.
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I had a Yaris Hybrid and it's true the heater isn't as quick to temperature. But I'd have one again..just wear gloves till it warms up. Let's hope the glorious revolutionary council of Comrade Korbynski rescinds the idiotic decree that we must all be driving kiddy cars by 2040.
I for one welcome our new Alien overlords..etc etc
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Surely the point here is that they didn’t heed the well published warnings on weather conditions. Of all the much published reports of stranded motorists over the last few days I have seen nothing to suggest that they were just unfortunate to find themselves in those conditions. The warnings were there they just chose to ignore them and in doing so put others at risk. Some even complained that they didn’t see any police trying to help them, unbelievable.
The warnings not to travel unless essential leaves it open to the driver to define "essential"
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I've owned an old banger which had no functioning heater. Even in moderate Autumnal weather I can assure you 40 miles at 70mph and the cabin is like a fridge. Riding a bike was actually warmer because you wear more clothes.
Not just that, the body is exerting itself and genrating FAR more heat than when seated at rest, making you feel warm, as long as you have a source of fuel (food and a hot drink)! I regularly go for long brisk walks at this time of year, and my hands are cold at the start, even with gloves on, but often by then end of my walk (1hr+ later), I don't have the gloves on any more (unless it's REALLY cold).
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Don’t assume a petrol will keep going until it runs out of fuel. I’ve been stuck in traffic for hours due to snow and more than one car had battery failure as tickover wasn’t enough to provide enough power to keep the car running.
I was under the assumption that the engine adjusted revs according to electrical power needed, if that is not the case their is no point in having a hybrid.
I would have thought the generators (depending on motor ie may only be one) were capable of generating what is needed in a car no matter what the current draw is?
I suppose it depends upon the quality and, more importantly, the condition of the car's battery and especially the alternator.
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Don’t assume a petrol will keep going until it runs out of fuel. I’ve been stuck in traffic for hours due to snow and more than one car had battery failure as tickover wasn’t enough to provide enough power to keep the car running.
The alternator on any modern petrol or diesel car should be more than capable of providing enough electrical energy to run a heater motor and ignition circuits at tickover, as long as high energy circuits (lights HRW) are off.
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The new Jaguar i Pace has a 90kw battery.
Lets assume you were stuck in the snow with "only" approx. 25% battetry capacity remaining, i.e. 22kw.
A typical portable electric heater is 2kw and will warm a substantial sized room very quickly. Compare the volume of a car cabin with your front room and you can see that 500w would probably be sufficicent, (if not more than enough) to heat a car interior to 20 degrees C?
So your 22kw remaining battery capacity would give you 44 hours of heat (warm enough to sit in your underpants should you so desire).
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The new Jaguar i Pace has a 90kw battery.
Lets assume you were stuck in the snow with "only" approx. 25% battetry capacity remaining, i.e. 22kw.
A typical portable electric heater is 2kw and will warm a substantial sized room very quickly. Compare the volume of a car cabin with your front room and you can see that 500w would probably be sufficicent, (if not more than enough) to heat a car interior to 20 degrees C?
So your 22kw remaining battery capacity would give you 44 hours of heat (warm enough to sit in your underpants should you so desire).
Not so sure about that, as the surrounding wind temp being around minus 10 or lower would take the heat away rather rapidly, so the heater would be fighting the cold
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The new Jaguar i Pace has a 90kw battery.
Lets assume you were stuck in the snow with "only" approx. 25% battetry capacity remaining, i.e. 22kw.
A typical portable electric heater is 2kw and will warm a substantial sized room very quickly. Compare the volume of a car cabin with your front room and you can see that 500w would probably be sufficicent, (if not more than enough) to heat a car interior to 20 degrees C?
So your 22kw remaining battery capacity would give you 44 hours of heat (warm enough to sit in your underpants should you so desire).
Not so sure about that, as the surrounding wind temp being around minus 10 or lower would take the heat away rather rapidly, so the heater would be fighting the cold
In addition to which, your living room almost certainly isn't 30+% glass area, has very thick double-glazed units, loads of other insulation, and isn't constructed of a terribly fast heat-losing metal construction !
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You are getting to tied-up with the detail, even at 2kw there would be enough for 11 hours (and remember this is assuming only 25% battery). There would be sufficient heating power unless the battery was flat (same as if you had no petrol / diesel). And from the number of perople I see putting £10 worth in at the filling station (less than two gallons), they would be in more danger?
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You are getting to tied-up with the detail, even at 2kw there would be enough for 11 hours (and remember this is assuming only 25% battery). There would be sufficient heating power unless the battery was flat (same as if you had no petrol / diesel). And from the number of perople I see putting £10 worth in at the filling station (less than two gallons), they would be in more danger?
I think you would get tied up with detail if you was in that situation, the heater will only come from ports under the dash or from the top of dash from small holes, if you consider the area of the interior, that heat has to overcome the freezing cold.
I sat in my car the other day waiting for someone, with the heater on full heat, fan on 4, and it was not very good at heating the whole car or around me due to wind temp of around minus 10 as shown by the cars temp sensor
its like sitting in front of a 2kw heater at home, your reasonable at the front but back is freezing
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I sat in my car the other day waiting for someone, with the heater on full heat, fan on 4, and it was not very good at heating the whole car or around me due to wind temp of around minus 10 as shown by the cars temp sensor
its like sitting in front of a 2kw heater at home, your reasonable at the front but back is freezing
The clue there is SAT in my car (i.e. the engine was ticking-over). In this circumstance the engine is not producing much wasted heat (the stuff you need in an IC car to warm you up). In a battery car, the readily available power can be used to warm you up or drive the car, it is not a by-product of the engine).
I think you would be BETTER-OFF in a battery car to be honest (given the same amount of avaialble energy when you got stuck). At least the battery car wouldn't try and poison you to death.
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I think you would be BETTER-OFF in a battery car to be honest (given the same amount of avaialble energy when you got stuck). At least the battery car wouldn't try and poison you to death.
no it would probably freeze me to death instead
I was only waiting a few minutes,(I didn`t mention that) and did not get stuck-and am very pleased with how the Civic performed in the bad weather.
But I will stay with diesel thanks very much
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Bolt, you need a physics lesson
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Bolt was in a diesel. The thermal efficiency of diesel engines means there is very little waste heat for the heater and at tickover there's probably none.
I recall a Winter journey in a diesel when I felt the car snaking, presumably an untreated road. I slowed to around 30MPH and the car gradually got colder. Looking at the temperature gauge, it was going down. The heater was taking more heat than the engine was generating!
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Thank you BT.
I once had a diesel car flooded due to blocked scuttle drains. Despite it being a pleasantly warm weekend, leaving it ticking-over all day (to try and dry it out) was totally pointless. The temperature gauge hardly left the stop. A hairdryer sorted the job out (I could have plugged this into the battery if it had been an EV) ;)
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I recall a Winter journey in a diesel when I felt the car snaking, presumably an untreated road. I slowed to around 30MPH and the car gradually got colder. Looking at the temperature gauge, it was going down. The heater was taking more heat than the engine was generating!
Funny you should mention that, some here will recall that even if our cars were well maintained and with working thermostats, during the winters we used to get cold as this regularly we'd often block at least part of the radiator off to help keeps thing warm, these were usually petrol engined,
Well, in the late 70's and early 80's i used to drive Scammell Crusader lorries regularly, these had an automatically operated slatted blind (similar to a Venetian blind) in front of the radiator, the slats would be closed to help prevent overcooling, and would open when the temp was right, simple and it worked.
Well i was issued with a new Scania about 3 weeks ago, part of the kit was a plastic sheet with holes in each corner, this is supposed to be attached in front of the radiator if travelling in temps below -5'C, rather heath robinson compared to a Scammell of 40 years ago (a vehicle many new lorry drivers of today would sneer at), but surprised me to see it there regardless.
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Bolt, you need a physics lesson
No not really, common sense tells you that in severe negative- temperaturs we had the other day, no car is going to heat up inside the same as it would in +temps, the volume of cold air going over the car drops the temp severely
unless of course your saying that steel and glass are fully insulated against cold and heat
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I'm not on about heat loss, I'm talking about the ability of a high powered / high capacity battery to provide heat v's a diesel engine on tickover.
You would have to rev the b******* off your oil burner to stay warm.
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I'm not on about heat loss, I'm talking about the ability of a high powered / high capacity battery to provide heat v's a diesel engine on tickover.
You would have to rev the b******* off your oil burner to stay warm.
well maybe about 1500 rpm to keep warm, if your trying to persuade me an EV is better than a diesel, your wasting your time, they are not good enough at the moment, range is not far enough and untill I have to, I am not putting in a charging point for a car
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if your trying to persuade me an EV is better than a diesel, your wasting your time, ........
I'm doing nothing of the sort, I'm trying to explain that if you were stuck (in snow, or whatever), an EV would be just as capable of providing cabin heat as a diesel and maybe it would be better as a diesel on tickover does not give-out much excess heat.
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if your trying to persuade me an EV is better than a diesel, your wasting your time, ........
I'm doing nothing of the sort, I'm trying to explain that if you were stuck (in snow, or whatever), an EV would be just as capable of providing cabin heat as a diesel and maybe it would be better as a diesel on tickover does not give-out much excess heat.
Capable until the battery is flat. How many hours will that take?
Bear in mind people have recently been stuck for 12 hours plus, and wouldn't have had 100% full batteries when they got stuck.
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Hi Nick
I see your reasoning in favour of the EV heating. I also know that the diesel Transit vans I drive produce next to no heat and won't de-ice just by starting the engine and turning the demister on. I usually put a fan heater in the cab and leave it for 20 mins.
I presumed (probably wrongly) that once the engine was hot, that the engine would stay hot, when idling, with the heater on (if I got stuck for a few hours).
Of course, the Jaguar you mention has a big battery and is a very expensive car. The current version of the Leaf has a battery less that half the size at 40KWH.
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My experience of hybrids is as follows.
As a company car driver doing 30,000 miles per year mainly on motorways and A roads, my choice of 7 company cars last year comprised 6 x 2 litre diesels and the Mitsubishi Outlander plug in hybrid. I chose the Outlander purely for the low company car tax liability. Due to the short range, 300 miles on a full tank, I was filling it every day I was out on business in it. It was the basic specification car so it did not have the facility of warming the cabin while the battery was being charged at home.
It only came into it's own at weekends when my 14 mile round trip into town was purely on battery, the engine did not start if it was driven carefully. Fast forward to winter, I could still get into town and back, just, entirely on battery. BUT, without the engine running, there was no means of demisting the windows so it was either make with a cloth or open the windows. Driving a hybrid on petrol only to warm the cabin and demist the windows seems to me to contradict the reason ecological reasons for driving a plug in hybrid. I no longer have the car as I left the company in January so the Outlander went back.
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That surprises me. If a purely electric vehicle like the Nissan Leaf can have operational heater, aircon etc., surely a PHEV should be able to heat and demist on electric power?
Anyone out there with a plug-in hybrid who can confirm / deny?
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That surprises me. If a purely electric vehicle like the Nissan Leaf can have operational heater, aircon etc., surely a PHEV should be able to heat and demist on electric power?
Anyone out there with a plug-in hybrid who can confirm / deny?
On checking the site it says its switchable, ie if you switch to EV mode it prevent/limits engine use and aircon, bearing in mind it is meant to be a hybrid so their was no reason apart from driver that did not want to use it, that it couldn`t have been used
so not so sure it was worth a moan about as driver knew what the car was or maybe didnt know it worked like that
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That surprises me. If a purely electric vehicle like the Nissan Leaf can have operational heater, aircon etc., surely a PHEV should be able to heat and demist on electric power?
Anyone out there with a plug-in hybrid who can confirm / deny?
The 225xe can run full aircon / demist etc on battery-only. Of course, running the aircon drains the battery a lot faster than just using the normal electric heating: I'd estimate aircon usage reduces the battery-only range by 25%
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The most popular EV in Norway is the TESLA. They do seem to manage ok, most owners have off street parking and the car will be warm before they unplug it, and drive off.
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Compared to the Leaf I used to drive occasionally, the Prius plug in which has replaced it is a big letdown in the heating department.
Leaf heat was instantaneous and it had a heated windscreen. The first time I used it it was well below freezing and the car was covered in frost. I jumped in set heating to max and within a minute hot air and ice melted.
The Prius has no heated windscreen and when I used it for the first time a few weeks ago I was late to a meeting. It took ages to generate enough heat to demist as it was no different to a normal car and this after I had scraped the ice off.
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The most popular EV in Norway is the TESLA. They do seem to manage ok, most owners have off street parking and the car will be warm before they unplug it, and drive off.
Quite accept what you are saying. In winter, I like the idea of having a warm car interior before driving off. It's also a lot safer as there is then no issues with windows icing up when you start driving.
With the weather we have had in the past week, it's quite possible that you wouldn't be able to access a charge point at one end of your journey (and have to park a few streets away). So you would need to use some of your battery range, to power the heater, to de-ice the car.
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Why can't they build in a small fuel tank and run a webasto type heater? It wouldn't count for CO2/NOX emissions if you can switch it off.
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Why can't they build in a small fuel tank and run a webasto type heater? It wouldn't count for CO2/NOX emissions if you can switch it off.
You can't say things like that on a public forum. What about the children?
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The new Jaguar i Pace has a 90kw battery.
Lets assume you were stuck in the snow with "only" approx. 25% battetry capacity remaining, i.e. 22kw.
A typical portable electric heater is 2kw and will warm a substantial sized room very quickly. Compare the volume of a car cabin with your front room and you can see that 500w would probably be sufficicent, (if not more than enough) to heat a car interior to 20 degrees C?
So your 22kw remaining battery capacity would give you 44 hours of heat (warm enough to sit in your underpants should you so desire).
A home has FAR better insulation than a car, especially as the windows in a car make up far more of the external skin of the car and most are only single glazed. ICE cars don't have a problem, especially petrol engined ones, as their combustion process emits a lot of heat energy that can be used to heat the car (deliberately or not), whereas EVs generate far less heat during usage - great for efficiency, not so good when stuck in the snow for hours.
I suspect that the heat loss in a car would be near to 5x that of a modern home per m2 of interior space as a result of the poor insulation of the exterior and the vent holes that can never be blocked. You might do better if you covered the car completely in snow (EVs) to make it like an igloo.
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