The new passat has 500nm going through a 7 speed DSG box, perhaps its a difference box.

Totally different box

The 7 speed used in the smaller VAG cars has a limit of 250nm. If you look at the cars fitted with that box such as the 1.6 TDi and the 1.8 TSi they both have 250nm.

The 6 speed wet clutch used in more powerful cars has a much bigger torque limit. We have one in a 2.0 TDi Golf pool car at work. Abused by all and sundy its now coming up 8 years old, 140,000 miles and has never missed a beat.

Thank you for your answers. I forgot to tell that I cover aprox. 25000km a year. I asked Honest John for.advice also and this is what I got:

,,The Leon is a great looking car. But the DSG isn't anything like as good as Mazda's excellent 6-speed torque converter autobox. Mazda's 2.2 diesel should not be any trouble. I ran this engine + autobox in a Mazda 6 for a year and 14k miles with no trouble, and if I had to buy this type of car for myself I would buy a Mazda 3 2.2d150 auto. The 2.0 120PS petrol engine is a bit flat.''

I too have been beginning to mull over both these cars (though in petrol format only as I don't do many miles p.a.) to possibly replace my nearly 9yo Mazda3 mk1 saloon.

Speaking as a Mazda owner, my criticisms are generally that to get the most out of the engine (mine's a 1.6 petrol), you do have to boot it, the ride (whilst not too bad) is definitely on the firm side and you get quite a reasonable amount of engine/road noise through into the cabin. Reliability-wise, I can't fault it (I've admitedly been lucky to avoid the diesel versions and the traction control issues [mine doesn't have it]), and its perfectly good for general cruising along, if a bit on the noisy side.

The new Mazda3 looks fine to me, though the road noise and performance issue still appear to remain, though reduced (after reading several reviews). The interior material quality does also seem to have been improved. One 'compliant' is that the more powerful 150bhp 2 litre petrol engine is not available in my favoured saloon variant, only the 120bhp unit which doesn't appear to be apprecably quicker than my 1.6 petrol model.

I like the styling and performance (better throttle response than the 3) of the Leon, and particularly like it in 3dr format, as it has the same boot size as the 5dr but slightly less rear seat space (which I rarely need) and is better looking than the 5dr (not bad in itself) and its sister VAG cars the Golf and A3. What I am less than enthused by is the general reliability of the VAG engines (forgetting the DSG issues for a moment)/mechanicals compared to Mazda's petrol-engined cars (also I would've preferred my favoured 1.4TSI to be chain-cam as per the 1.2 & 1.8TSIs), and that the claimed mpg's appear to be far lower than the real life experience.

The dealership experience seems to be quite variable with both makes (my local dealership is generally fine, others I've come across less so) - friends and relative experiences with both also bares that out as well.

Still in two minds myself, especially as the new Mazda2 has just arrived, though tit appears the road noise and performance issues from the 3 are the same in the 2.

I would've preferred my favoured 1.4TSI to be chain-cam as per the 1.2 & 1.8

The 1.2 TSI is belt drive just like the 1.4 TSi. They were brand new engines (only the capacity differs) that were introduced along with the MQB platform and are made at the Skoda plant for all VAG users.

The 1.8 TSi is a totally different and in my opinion redundant engine that only gets bought by people who think that bigger is better. Its not, Having a 1.4 TSi I realise its the only engine I actualy need in the moderm world. Great perforance when needed and a genuine 45 mpg in the 18 months I have owned it.

Just need to find a decent dealer to service it, the dealer who supplied it was a liar and the dealer I used to service it at 12 months old a total numpty.

My dilemma is similar to yours - the Mazda looks to be of better quality/reliability (at least in petrol format), but the Leon is the better drivers car (not by a lot, taking into account cruising ability).

I also like the Leon SC as its not as large as the 5dr and the Mazda, especially my favoured fastback/saloon version. I'd previously bought the mk1 Mazda3 partly because it had a far greater boot size than the alternatives I was looking at (Honda Civic [both 3dr and 5dr] and Jazz) which I could fit all my holiday stuff in (including golf equipment) without having to fold the rear seats down.

That being said, the 3 is not a small car by any means, and having a larger car which is handy for a once-a-year trip isn't necessarily the best solution (the clincher at the time was I managed to source the Mazda3 I wanted both on the 'fleet buy' discounters and eventually Motorpoint [new] for nearly £4k less than the equivalent Civic and £3k less than a less quick Jazz). Less sigificant discounts on these makes today, so other considerations hold more weight. The 380 litre boot of both Leon types should (just) be sufficient for me, and the better rear visibility of Leon over the 3 (fastback version) is also good.

The reliability and ownership experience is still a 'non-negotiable' item, hence why I haven't as yet chosen the Leon. My Mazda has only done 50k miles despite its age, so I may wait a while longer until the Leon has really 'bedded down' and any longer-term TSI engine (and other) related reliabilty issues are (hopefully) fixed.

I don't envy the OP's decision - quite a difficult one if you ask me.

52 mpg from a 2.0 petrol? I want one. No I don't because I don't want to drive on the motorway at 40 mph. Seriously?

The bottom line is, don't go by magazine reviews or other peoples comments, we all look for different things in a car so compare the cars yourself.

That is exactly what I did and the Leon won, hands down.

Good points there - one thing also worth doing is that don't just test a new demonstrator, also test a second-hand model that's had a good few 'real' miles and wear & tear under its belt. Then you get a better idea (unless you're one of those poeple who only keep their car for 2-3 years) of what it'll be like further down the line - maybe some of the 'good points' like, say, a good ride, will have gone by then - my Mazda3 was fine for the first year, but definitely got a lot more firm/noisy afterwards, although the (IMO) poor Bridgestone ER30 tyres didn't help either.

Same goes for reliability - some 'inherant' faults don't always appear in the first year or two. I'm going to wait until both cars are a good 3-4 years into their model lifetime cycle (as it were) before choosing (or A. N. Other car) - for me, it was pure dumb luck that my car didn't have any of the features (diesel engine, traction and stability control) that have let the side down in terms of reliability.

Hopefully Mazda have learned from that experience (the jury appears still to be out on road noise, but I will decide for myself), but I'm not convinced that VAG have yet on the apparent reliability woes, which for me (other than safety), is a deal-breaker - I don't have the time or patience to keep taking an unreliable car into my local dealership.

Some feedback from owners of both cars over the next few years is useful, including the general ownership experience - real life mpg, dealership/manufacturer experience, good/bad points aside from driving that often get overlooked by the magazine/TV reviewers, etc. I think what would be useful is that each personal review of our cars can be updated (by ourselves) with sub-reviews (say up to 3 or 4) over the time we own the car, not just what mostly happens, which is that owners review them only after a few months - year of ownership, before any major long term issues develop.

Skidpan i've seen 59mpg average on the read out twice, that with the 175ps awd sport.

It also will give you around 250 pound feet at 1500rpm, as does the 150ps version, but the 175 tops out at 310 pound feet, the 150 only 280 pound feet.

Perhaps you are talking about the petrol engine?

Does this new 1.4 TSI have a timing chain or cam belt?

Wouldn't trust VAG with chain cams, not their strongest skill set

Skid pan according to my data from Mazda (a power and torque grath) the 175ps diesel will output

250 pound feet from 1500rpm to 3500rpm.

And 140ps from 2500rpm to 5200rpm, the later engine goes to 5500rpm.

So perhaps you need to drive a few modern diesels.

My mate has a VW Golf 1.4 TSI DSG, I'd be surprised if the Leon didn't have that option too. Then again it might be deliberate in order to steer some busines to VW.