Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid?

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Wed 19 Jun 2013 09:48
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - Gotanoldhondar

I had a conversation with a work colleague yesterday who seems convinced that my

DTEC Honda Accord with 66k, not yet four years old will shortly explode in a ball of

flame.I told him the car had been faultless to date and that sticking to service schedule

will surely be enough to triple my mileage,but no convincing him.

Does he have a point ? or is it down to people buying diesels and doing low mileage

thus causing engine problems?. Modern diesels are hopefully not all problematic after

4/5 years.

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Wed 19 Jun 2013 09:59
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - jc2

Does he have a point ?

No!-not with your milage.

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Wed 19 Jun 2013 10:38
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - bathtub tom

What evidence does your work colleague have to support their theory?

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Wed 19 Jun 2013 10:59
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - unthrottled

He probably reads HJ in the Tele every Saturday. If so, it's hardly surprising that he's become convinced of the imminant and inevitable destruction of the timing belt, DPF, and EGR valve of the diesel engine. The only engine that can be expected to last more than 17.4 miles is the Toyota 1.8 vvt. Apparently

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Wed 19 Jun 2013 11:07
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - jc2

You missed the DMF!

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Wed 19 Jun 2013 12:26
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - MrDanno

There are hardly any posts on forums about Japanese diesels having problems. The main culprits to self destruct seem to be Vauxhall Zafira diesels driven as town cars.

As long as your driving pattern and style is suited to a diesel I doubt you'll have many problems. Of course this goes without saying that you maintain the vehicle at the right intervals and don't run it dry of oil etc.

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Wed 19 Jun 2013 12:39
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - unthrottled

There are hardly any posts on forums about Japanese diesels having problems. The main culprits to self destruct seem to be Vauxhall Zafira diesels driven as town cars.

Mazda 2.0D doesn't seem overly fond of town work...

Modern HD road diesel engines are designed with a B50 lifetime of a million miles these days.

They (usually) use High Pressure Common rail Fiuel injection system-just like your car does

They use cooled EGR-just like your car does

They use Variable Geometry turbos-just like your car does

They use 'electronics'-just like your car does does

They use exhaust after treatment-just like your car does

When was the last time you were in Little Chef and you overheard a trucker wailing into his coffee "if only my truck had spark plugs"???

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Wed 19 Jun 2013 12:48
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - RT

There are hardly any posts on forums about Japanese diesels having problems. The main culprits to self destruct seem to be Vauxhall Zafira diesels driven as town cars.

In part that's because the Japanese were late into diesels - as far as cars go.

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Wed 19 Jun 2013 12:56
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - MrDanno

I owned a 1994 Toyota Diesel so I'd say not that late. Considering most of the Zarifa's that suffer seem to be around 10 years old or younger.

I know alot of the Japanese diesels suffer from cracked cylinder heads but, In fairness it has took over 15 years for most of them to crack and probably most of those had never had any maintenance on the cooling systems.

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Wed 19 Jun 2013 13:17
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - Collos25

There are hardly any posts on forums about Japanese diesels having problems. The main culprits to self destruct seem to be Vauxhall Zafira diesels driven as town cars.

As long as your driving pattern and style is suited to a diesel I doubt you'll have many problems. Of course this goes without saying that you maintain the vehicle at the right intervals and don't run it dry of oil etc.

You obviously do not read the same web site as most people I would think that Japanese cars are just as reliable or unreliable as any other countries cars.If you look athe streams of problems with Mazda and Honda you would never buy one fortunetly most cars are pretty reliable till the end.

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Wed 19 Jun 2013 18:39
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - Soichiro
What exactly are these streams of problems with Honda?

If you're referring to the iCTDI engine they don't use it anymore. As for the iDtec, there aren't any known major issues with this engine.

I'd be far more worried if I was buying a german diesel lemon.

Edited by Soichiro on 19/06/2013 at 18:41

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Wed 19 Jun 2013 18:46
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - nortones2

And what's more, the in-house Honda diesels are cam-chain, not belt.

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Wed 19 Jun 2013 19:00
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - unthrottled

And what's more, the in-house Honda diesels are cam-chain, not belt.

And that's meant to be a good thing? The belt is far superior to the chain for most diesel applications. 100K mile change intervals to boot, so most engines will need only one change.

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Wed 19 Jun 2013 20:42
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - Gotanoldhondar

I think it is probably something he's read somewhere although i doubt he's a Telegraph

man ,teletext maybe : )

He owns a petrol Citreon c5 with 150k so he must be doing something right.

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Wed 19 Jun 2013 21:47
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - nortones2

Just a factual point as the OP has a Honda diesel. Not 100 K miles on most VAG belts. And,the chain should last the life of the car. So no incompetent dealer staff messing around with the innards.

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Thu 20 Jun 2013 08:59
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - Armitage Shanks {p}

Perhaps I have been lucky? I have 110K miles 04 plate 307 1.6 Hdi. It has had consumables, been misfuelled twice, a new sensor in the filler cap for the EOLYS system and a £200 bill for an EOLYS fault, has borken down once, wouldn't start at home and the AA fixed it and that's it. 55+ mpg on a run and reliable and adequata car, for me

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Fri 21 Jun 2013 10:52
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - Collos25

Perhaps I have been lucky? I have 110K miles 04 plate 307 1.6 Hdi. It has had consumables, been misfuelled twice, a new sensor in the filler cap for the EOLYS system and a £200 bill for an EOLYS fault, has borken down once, wouldn't start at home and the AA fixed it and that's it. 55+ mpg on a run and reliable and adequata car, for me

Wait till you have to change the glow plugs they can only be reached by lifting the car on a hoist and removing the exhausr and drive system .The customer was at first expecting in his own mind a 60pound bill turned out to be over 400.

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Thu 20 Jun 2013 10:33
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - balleballe

I would tend to disagree. Japanese cars are generally more reliable than other Europen cars. I suppose the exception to this would be diesel cars

Customer satisfaction surveys and stats do not lie

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Thu 20 Jun 2013 11:12
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - RT
Customer satisfaction surveys and stats do not lie

Customer satisfaction surveys are based on expectation vs reality - cheap cars always do better than expensive ones, even if the cheap ones are less reliable.

Statistics need a complete understanding of the questions being asked - car manufacturers simply don't publish their warranty failure rates - too commercially sensitive.

Those who implicitly believe customer satisfaction surveys and any statistics are the ones who keep PR men in yachts and penthouses!

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Thu 20 Jun 2013 11:29
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - dieseldogg

Bingo! RT

Absolutly on the money observation.

I reasonably expect to get 250,000 miles out of my VW 1.6Cr diesel.

I would not have bough the vehicle otherwise.

By routinely checking for oil and coolant, plus observing service requirments.

Do i care whether it is belt or chain driven camshaft.

No, absolutly not, a cambelt is absolutly 100% engineering wise. The amount of lying about them being changed/just replaced, coupled by some of the stupid careless mechanics fitting incorrectly, did timing belts a hugh dissservice.

And ignoring baseless "horror stories", but keeping my ears open to the occasional nugget of genuine information.

Simples.

Really

Edited by dieseldogg on 20/06/2013 at 11:29

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Thu 20 Jun 2013 14:11
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - balleballe

I cant remember where I saw it but breakdown rate/percentage was calculated per brand.

Nothing to do with how much they cost. Just the mechanical reliability

All stats are to be taken with a pinch of salt but Japanese manufacturers consistently rank higher.

Take for example Honest John's MOT pass rate. Of equivalent sized cars in 2005 and 2006

Civic: Mazda 3 Corolla Golf A3 Focus Astra

2005 76% 78% 80.4% 74% 71% 70.8% 67.3%

2006 79.4% 83.7% 84% 78.7% 77.5% 76.1% 75.8%

Granted some brands have a larger sample size but even for example the mazda 3 for 2005 has a sample size of around 15k

The trend is easy to spot.

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Thu 20 Jun 2013 14:24
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - RT

MoT pass rate statistics may be arithmetically accurate but are nonsense, sorry HJ - it depends entirely how much pre-MoT preparation is done beforehand to correct any failure items - brands with an image of high reliability are more likely to be pampered and get a pre-check - brands with an image of poor reliability are often just MoT'd to find any issues.

Such practices just perpetuate the reputations without establishing any truth in the matter.

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Thu 20 Jun 2013 14:34
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - balleballe

Surely brands of 'prestige cars' are more likely to be pampered?

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Thu 20 Jun 2013 16:53
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - mss1tw

Surely brands of 'prestige cars' are more likely to be pampered?

Not at all. Usually ragged to pieces by people with more money than sense, and servicing ignored in favour of more important things.

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Fri 21 Jun 2013 09:50
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - balleballe

When I say prestige I mean 'premium' sorry. Take for example the German makes.

Yes, you have some that abuse the 'premium' branded cars, but you also have many who buy a Japanese car for cost reasons and therefore can't always afford to service on time or properly.

If I had a car I would look after it regardless of the marque.

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Thu 20 Jun 2013 15:25
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - unthrottled

There's a lot of scatter in that data. As RT has pointed out, you need to remove faults that are due to abuse/neglect before attempting to draw any comparisons.

Also MOTs test for a vehicle being roadworthy, not reliable.

A car with a shot engine or a prematurely failed clutch or gearbox is not a reason to refuse an MOT.

Very few design/build faults will flag up on an MOT. The only ones I can think of are suspension/steering rack and structural corrosion. Body corrosion isn't a fail unless it is very severe.

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Thu 20 Jun 2013 18:08
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - Bobbin Threadbare

Also MOTs test for a vehicle being roadworthy, not reliable.


There's the nail on the head! The MOT is like an exam; you have a good day and you pass. You're poorly or distracted, you get a rubbish grade.....same with cars. All a MOT can say is 'on this particular day this car was roadworthy according to UK law'. The very next day you could smash out lights, put the wrong fuel in and wreck the car etc....

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Thu 20 Jun 2013 19:07
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - madf

Most of the above is clueless rubbish.

Japanese cars on the whole will take abuse.. And survive. A Ford Focus TDCI can be cossetted and serviced as per book and still fall to bits as the design is marginal. See Rover HGs.. one leak and you were stuffed..

And most - not all - Japanese dealers actually care about customers. Try finding a VAG one who will..

Statistics do not lie.. and those who say otherwise are deluded.. Or is anyone going to claim that LR make reliable cars?

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Thu 20 Jun 2013 19:18
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - unthrottled

Statistics do not lie.. and those who say otherwise are deluded..

See Rover HGs.. one leak and you were stuffed.

Cheap cars with blown head gaskets get scrapped and don't appear as MOT failures.

A car with head gasket intact gets thrown in for MOT and fails because of bald tyre.

Still think statistics don't lie? Raw data doesn't lie, but it can be misused terribly.

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Fri 21 Jun 2013 10:37
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - Collos25

I agree completely in Car Mechanics this month a perfectly good car was scrapped because the VED was more than the car was worth and it had a valid MOT.

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Fri 21 Jun 2013 10:47
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - Collos25

If you're referring to the iCTDI engine they don't use it anymore. As for the iDtec, there aren't any known major issues with this engine.

Keep on thinking that and you will be ok meanwhile in the real world high mileage 80k plus cars are having new timing chains fitted at tremendous cost ,whereas as a timing belt will last some 160k and is cheap and easy to change by comparison.I have run Hondas with both engines and in my opinion they are not in the same class as comparable european engines

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Fri 21 Jun 2013 23:14
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - Bycro
The perception of The general public is that these cars are ultra reliable... I thought !







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Sat 22 Jun 2013 00:13
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - Collos25

As are most cars of every make.

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Sat 22 Jun 2013 08:57
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - Soichiro

Keep on thinking that and you will be ok meanwhile in the real world high mileage 80k plus cars are having new timing chains fitted at tremendous cost ,whereas as a timing belt will last some 160k and is cheap and easy to change by comparison.I have run Hondas with both engines and in my opinion they are not in the same class as comparable european engines

You do talk some rubbish. I don't think the iDtec doesn't have any known problems, I know it as fact. The 04/05 iCtdi engines had a known problem with the timing chain which Honda did the honourable thing and extended the warranty to seven years/125k miles. Can't see your adorable VAG doing that. Apart from that no other known problems with either Honda diesel engine's timing chains. Apart from owners/garages using wrong oil. Try getting some hard data rather than spouting nonsense. We agree on one thing though Honda's diesels are not in the same class as comparable European engines, Honda's are a class above.
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Sat 22 Jun 2013 10:01
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - balleballe

I have driven a civic with the I-CDTI and a golf with the CR 2.0 TDI.

I preferred the honda engine but simply because I am used to petrols and the honda diesel was more 'rev happy'.

I imagine those used to European diesel engines will probably not like that nature of the I-CDTI engine. No idea what the I-DTEC is like

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Sat 22 Jun 2013 00:16
Modern diesels ticking time bombs,when to get rid? - Collos25

And most - not all - Japanese dealers actually care about customers. Try finding a VAG one who will

Having dealt with many VAG dealers in the UK and Germany I must have been lucky as they have all been extremely good and helpful.

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