The Rav4 doesn't have as much interior space despite its dimensions.
The RAV4 is more than a foot shorter than the Passat, but its wheelbase is only 15cm shorter. Which certainly suggests the RAV4 has more interior space relative to its size than the Passat.
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OK, but what about the Passat's reliability?
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OK, but what about the Passat's reliability?
The fact that you'd be buying new removes some degree of risk over the long term reliability concern of the Passat's DSG (assuming you drive sensibly), but I'd still be wary. It might not be too bad, but be in no doubt that the RAV4 will be more reliable, particularly once you get past 4-5 years.
Also, and I don't know if this is the case in Germany, in the UK Toyota will extend the standard manufacturers warranty (annually) up to 10 years (assuming dealer serviced).
I realise that reliability surveys are not the be all and end all, but maybe worth bearing in mind that in the What Car reliability survey of 2024, the previous shape Passat was rated as the 2nd least reliable car in its category. Also that in overall reliability of the brand, VW came 18th (out of 31) whereas Toyota came 5th.
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The Rav4 doesn't have as much interior space despite its dimensions.
The RAV4 is more than a foot shorter than the Passat, but its wheelbase is only 15cm shorter. Which certainly suggests the RAV4 has more interior space relative to its size than the Passat.
That may be but to drive it feels rather large especially re width. Saying that re Mrs BJ the Passat had been ruled out for us as well re size!
However the Passat and Rav 4 are very different vehicles in many ways. Both the Passat and Rav 4 need driving to compare in many driving settings - around town, twisty stuff and motorway speeds to see what floats your boat. The Rav 4 really should be compared to another SUV.
On any Toyota hybrid vehicle make sure you like the hybrid running gear, it's a bit Marmite - some love it and some hate it! I myself love it.
Edited by Big John on 08/11/2024 at 21:17
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That may be but to drive it feels rather large especially re width. Saying that re Mrs BJ the Passat had been ruled out for us as well re size!
The RAV4 is pretty broad, that (unfortunately IMO) is just the way these days. But assuming the OP is looking the "new" (2024 on) Passat, it is only 6mm narrower than the RAV4.
However the Passat and Rav 4 are very different vehicles in many ways. Both the Passat and Rav 4 need driving to compare in many driving settings - around town, twisty stuff and motorway speeds to see what floats your boat. The Rav 4 really should be compared to another SUV.
Yeah it is an odd pairing, they are not "rivals", so I do wonder why only these two?
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Yes, I admit it is an odd pairing, so let's shed some light on this.
In 2002 I bought a 1-year old dealer certified Toyota Avensis 1.8 petrol auto. Drove it for 11 years.
It was an unbelievable experience. Went like this... An oil change, some filters, new brakepads, then again an oil change plus new oil in the gearbox, then new brakepads, new filters, new gas for the AC, some little things in front suspension (but not the shocks). Then brakepads and so on...
It felt bulletproof and actually was bulletproof. Never ever missed a beat. Never left me stranded.
So after 11 years I went the same route and bought another new shape Avensis again, also 1.8 petrol auto. And history repeated itself, just like before, regular maintenance and fuel. I still drive it to this day. Original shocks, original autobox, original everything. Never left me stranded.
So now it's only natural that I look at that RAV4. The Passat-thing would be like a romance during an old marriage. I like the way it looks both inside & outside, just haven't tried it yet.
It's a bit more expensive to buy and yes I am aware it might cost me more in the long run. Fortune favours the bold?
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The Passat-thing would be like a romance during an old marriage. I like the way it looks both inside & outside, just haven't tried it yet.
It's a bit more expensive to buy and yes I am aware it might cost me more in the long run. Fortune favours the bold?
Sounds like you have already decided you prefer the Passat?
It is your money and your choice, go for the Passat if that is what you really want. But you need to be aware that your chances of getting 5 trouble free years out of it are pretty slim, never mind 10+.
"Fortune favours the bold"?.
Hmm, I'd say, "do you feel lucky?", is closer to the mark.
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Be aware that in the next four years - as part of its forced move to BEVs- the Government is likely to raise VED and fuel tax on IC cars to encourage BEV usage..It has to fund partially some multi tens of billions investments in electricity generation and distribution.
(I expect a gradual move to double VED.
I am planning on that basis..
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Be aware that in the next four years - as part of its forced move to BEVs- the Government is likely to raise VED and fuel tax on IC cars to encourage BEV usage..It has to fund partially some multi tens of billions investments in electricity generation and distribution.
(I expect a gradual move to double VED.
I am planning on that basis..
Everything could and probably will change now that Trump is going into the White House again, stopping the compulsory EV mandates to the production of cheap energy and fuel the results of which will see production costs drop massively and the economy boosted.
Whilst legacy political parties in europe (and the UK) might have their needles stuck in the same groove, increasingly angry and poorer european electorates may well put people into office who have similar ideas.
As for the OP's question, Toyota every time, how odd that Toyota is a disrespected maker where he lives, here its the complete opposite.
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As for the OP's question, Toyota every time, how odd that Toyota is a disrespected maker where he lives, here its the complete opposite.
Even more odd that the OP is, after having enjoying Toyota reliability for the last 22 years, even considering anything else (except perhaps a Lexus?)
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"Sounds like you have already decided you prefer the Passat?"
Yes, I think I really prefer the Passat, but have not decided yet. That's why I'm here asking you guys.
"you need to be aware that your chances of getting 5 trouble free years out of it are pretty slim, never mind 10+."
Hmm, that's a pretty bold statement. Only 5 years? What has the world come to?
You mentioned that "the previous shape Passat was rated as the 2nd least reliable car in its category." I bet the Germans rated it the 2nd most reliable car in its category, in their version of "What Car". Because why not?
This is another world. VWs, Opels, Fords, Mercs, BMWs, Audis, they're everywhere. Toyotas are rare, no Camrys, for example. Same goes for the Lexus. It seems as if they're living in some kind of their own motoring bubble.
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Only a 2 year warranty for a brand new Passat? Doesn't inspire confidence in the product, does it?
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"you need to be aware that your chances of getting 5 trouble free years out of it are pretty slim, never mind 10+."
Hmm, that's a pretty bold statement. Only 5 years? What has the world come to?
Hmm, a bit of VAG bashing going on here. My previous 2 cars have been Skoda Superb's both running on a very similar platforms as the Passat of the day and I've kept both about 10 years with lots of miles each with very little trouble indeed other than brakes, the odd snapped suspension spring and latterly a clutch on the last Superb. I'd say that's a good record over 20 years or so.
My son has been driving over a decade and has had two Skoda Octavia's with no real trouble other than servicing/brakes etc.
Sadly I've recently moved away from VAG as I'm downsizing and most of their cars now have basic functions such as heating / ventilation on the touch screen - a firm NO from Mrs BJ!
Edited by Big John on 09/11/2024 at 18:30
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"you need to be aware that your chances of getting 5 trouble free years out of it are pretty slim, never mind 10+."
Hmm, that's a pretty bold statement. Only 5 years? What has the world come to?
Hmm, a bit of VAG bashing going on here. My previous 2 cars have been Skoda Superb's both running on a very similar platforms as the Passat of the day and I've kept both about 10 years with lots of miles each with very little trouble indeed other than brakes, the odd snapped suspension spring and latterly a clutch on the last Superb. I'd say that's a good record over 20 years or so.
My son has been driving over a decade and has had two Skoda Octavia's with no real trouble other than servicing/brakes etc.
Sadly I've recently moved away from VAG as I'm downsizing and most of their cars now have basic functions such as heating / ventilation on the touch screen - a firm NO from Mrs BJ!
I agree - my son's 8 year old Skoda Octavia has done 150,000 trouble-free miles despite being driven very aggressively - my own VW Touareg is slightly older but only done 75,000 trouble-free miles including about 20,000 miles towing, it's a keeper.
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"you need to be aware that your chances of getting 5 trouble free years out of it are pretty slim, never mind 10+."
Hmm, that's a pretty bold statement. Only 5 years? What has the world come to?
Hmm, a bit of VAG bashing going on here. My previous 2 cars have been Skoda Superb's both running on a very similar platforms as the Passat of the day and I've kept both about 10 years with lots of miles each with very little trouble indeed other than brakes, the odd snapped suspension spring and latterly a clutch on the last Superb. I'd say that's a good record over 20 years or so.
My son has been driving over a decade and has had two Skoda Octavia's with no real trouble other than servicing/brakes etc.
Sadly I've recently moved away from VAG as I'm downsizing and most of their cars now have basic functions such as heating / ventilation on the touch screen - a firm NO from Mrs BJ!
I agree - my son's 8 year old Skoda Octavia has done 150,000 trouble-free miles despite being driven very aggressively - my own VW Touareg is slightly older but only done 75,000 trouble-free miles including about 20,000 miles towing, it's a keeper.
The OP is looking at the DSG, which (even with the wet clutch) simply isn't as dependable as a good T/C or CVT transmission.
The OP is also looking at a brand new car, and you'd have to have either been living in a cave or just completely uninterested not to be aware of the VAG infotainment problems over the last few years along with VW's lack of helpfulness (this will of course vary from dealer to dealer) towards owners having these (and other) issues. This is very much highlighted by VW's lowly score (27th out of 32) as a manufacturer in the Driver Power customer satisfaction survey, which isn't about reliability per se, it is more about how well any problems are dealt with. Skoda tend to do much better here because their dealers deal with any problems better than their VW counterparts.
I'd also point out that there is a difference between having issues with a car and being stranded at the side of the road.
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Been there, drove it - the Passat, that is. Expected it to be a bit softer, though. (the suspension)
I've explained the whole situation to the dealer. I've told them that I've been driving Toyotas all my life, that now I'd like something new, but in order to get the Passat, I'd have to shell out another 3000 EUR.
In response, they offered me a discount of above mentioned 3000 EUR.
So... to wrap it up...
Brand new Passat 1.5 TSI DSG vs 2-year old RAV4.
For the same price. No brainer, huh?
Edited by Krugerrand on 09/11/2024 at 22:09
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Nice one - enjoy your new car.
It's a nice experience, picked my car up with 26 miles on the clock and 15 of those was me test driving it!
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I've owned a few VAG cars; a Golf, a Seat Mii, a Seat Toledo and a Skoda Karoq. Maby wosme others. Two of those were DSG, one had the notoriously bad 1.2tsi, one the notoriously bad 1.5tsi and one the notoriously bad 1.6tdi. I never had a problem with any of them apart from their dealers are awful, and the parts are expensive and made of chocolate. In terms of reliability, all were faultless.
Personally, in the position, I'd buy second hand Lexus before I even thought of a Passat. I suppose it's possible that VAG treat their customers better in their own country?
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"Personally, in the position, I'd buy second hand Lexus before I even thought of a Passat."
OK, but what model do you have in mind?
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"But you need to be aware that your chances of getting 5 trouble free years out of it are pretty slim, never mind 10+."
And what do you think could possibly go wrong during those 5 years?
Edited by Krugerrand on 10/11/2024 at 16:51
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"But you need to be aware that your chances of getting 5 trouble free years out of it are pretty slim, never mind 10+."
And what do you think could possibly go wrong during those 5 years?
This is from the What Car reliability survey:
Reliability rating 82.2%
Eye-watering repair bills were reported by some Passat owners, with only 60% getting their cars fixed for free; 27% paid up to £750 and 13% paid more than £1500. All cars could still be driven, but 67% took more than a week to be put right. Overall, 32% went wrong, mainly with bodywork and electrical issues.
And just to be point out, that is not what I think, that is what owners said.
Edited by badbusdriver on 10/11/2024 at 18:14
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"that is what owners said."
You mean the owners of the previous shape Passat , the B8?
If that is the case, should I even care since I'm considering the B9?
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"that is what owners said."
You mean the owners of the previous shape Passat , the B8?
If that is the case, should I even care since I'm considering the B9?
If you think the B9 shares nothing with its predecessor, or if you think the generally poor rating of VW as a brand will not continue to or include the new Passat, then no, just ignore it.
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"Personally, in the position, I'd buy second hand Lexus before I even thought of a Passat."
OK, but what model do you have in mind?
ES300 would be the obvious choice.
If you like the Passat, though, buy that. There is no point driving around in a car that you hate just because it's sensible. Sensible is not buying a new car ever,
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Been there, drove it - the Passat, that is. Expected it to be a bit softer, though. (the suspension)
I've explained the whole situation to the dealer. I've told them that I've been driving Toyotas all my life, that now I'd like something new, but in order to get the Passat, I'd have to shell out another 3000 EUR.
In response, they offered me a discount of above mentioned 3000 EUR.
So... to wrap it up...
Brand new Passat 1.5 TSI DSG vs 2-year old RAV4.
For the same price. No brainer, huh?
Congratulations. Hope you enjoy your new car.
I'm sure you've made the right choice. If you'd gone for the Rav4, you'd always have wished you'd gone for the car you really wanted instead.
I've had a VW group car (SEAT Ibiza) for the past 5 years (78,000 miles) and it's been totaly trouble free.
Enjoy driving your new car!
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