I saw that!
Not a good reflection on their reliability. Can’t understand why people continue to buy them.
Suspect someone with a reliable JLR car will be here telling me how they’ve never had a problem with theirs, unfortunately they seem to be in the minority.
I think a lot of it is to do with brand loyalty. I know a guy who only ever buys Range Rovers. As far as he's concerned, cars just break down a lot. He isn't aware that almost every other brand breaks down less.
There is always the simple fact that that they're very nice to be in when they're working too.
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We are a very self-depracating nation us Brits. I just wish we were a little more reserved in knocking the national brand. A lot of the people now deriding JLR at every opportunity did the same to Rover back in the day. They were no worse than their contemporary Italian or French cars. Once it's gone, it's gone together with the parts industry and entire motoring culture that went with it.
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But JLR vehicles are unreliable, its not an opinion but a fact.
I would like to buy a JLR product, they look good and are good off road but the horrendous reliability for decade after decade means I would never consider one until this aspect vastly improves.
Edited by daveyK_UK on 24/10/2023 at 21:41
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We are a very self-depracating nation us Brits. I just wish we were a little more reserved in knocking the national brand. A lot of the people now deriding JLR at every opportunity did the same to Rover back in the day. They were no worse than their contemporary Italian or French cars. Once it's gone, it's gone together with the parts industry and entire motoring culture that went with it.
It's almost the other way around. Rovers from the early 90s onwards (K series issues not withstanding) were generally good cars let down by image (acres of plastic wood and silly grilles) marketed only to the Percy Sugden types. JLR cars now are unreliable money pits that survive on image alone. Jaguar is rapidly falling into the older conservative trap that sucked Rover down, but Land Rover will keep selling glamorous garbage for years to come.
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The demand for LR products is so great that they offer little or no discounts on new cars .
And with cars designed like the new Defender it’s easy to understand the pull !
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The demand for LR products is so great that they offer little or no discounts on new cars .
And with cars designed like the new Defender it’s easy to understand the pull !
The demand is so "great" that annual sales for Discovery and Discovery Sport have tanked.
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Have jaguar stopped making the XE which was selling poorly? Trying to sell the more expensive stuff to maintain profit margins.
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The demand for LR products is so great that they offer little or no discounts on new cars .
And with cars designed like the new Defender it’s easy to understand the pull !
The demand is so "great" that annual sales for Discovery and Discovery Sport have tanked.
In fairness they haven't been making many of them in recent years choosing to focus on higher margin stuff whilst production levels were constrained.
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...... people now deriding JLR at every opportunity did the same to Rover back in the day. They were no worse than their contemporary Italian or French cars.
So why were 'French cars' so successful both here, in France, and - more significantly - in more challenging climates and road conditions? Even in British ex-colonies you are far more likely to come across old Peugeots than old Austins or Morrises. I don't ever remember seeing a Rover saloon car when I worked in Zambia. (The mining company had just given up on its fleet of Land Rovers and changed to Land Cruisers.)
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From what I understand both in Kenya and west Africa the locals demanded Peugeot to continue making the old diesel stuff as they weren’t interested in the new computerised stuff which was beyond their capabilities to repair .
Similarly we were asked to source vans with the Old Ford diesel engines which were simple to fix
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Lots of interesting Youtube videos showing the lengths the owners go to in order to keep their old cars going. Makes you wonder what they will do when eventually all those 504s and 505s can be fixed no more. Spares must eventually be a problem.
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Lots of interesting Youtube videos showing the lengths the owners go to in order to keep their old cars going. Makes you wonder what they will do when eventually all those 504s and 505s can be fixed no more. Spares must eventually be a problem.
Spares are probably not going to be a problem to the extent you would imagine in the case of the legendary 504, it was being made in Nigeria up to 2006 (nine years later than the 505 stopped being made in China).
A pretty good lifespan for a car introduced in 1968.
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French cars were the staple in the North African countries bordering the Mediterranean too. But once they started getting more complicated and less well made the switch was made to Japanese and Korean.
Same with LDV trucks which were popular in west Africa until the newer more complex engines were fitted .
Perhaps that’s why we used to see old Peugeots being loaded into containers heading for Africa, the same as old simple German cars like my old A4 PD going to Eastern Europe .
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When I lived in Kenya (20 years ago now), Peugeot and Subaru were assembled locally. Rather well too.
They changed from the 504 to the 405 whilst I was out there.
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We are a very self-depracating nation us Brits. I just wish we were a little more reserved in knocking the national brand. A lot of the people now deriding JLR at every opportunity did the same to Rover back in the day. They were no worse than their contemporary Italian or French cars. Once it's gone, it's gone together with the parts industry and entire motoring culture that went with it.
If they make a better product then they won't get the knocks. It's daft to give support to something just because it's British if it's not good.
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I think that is the problem. People buying them out of a British brand image but ultimately it is an Indian company who as Tata gave us the city rover. That’s basically what a JLR product is these days, a city rover with bells on.
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I think that is the problem. People buying them out of a British brand image but ultimately it is an Indian company who as Tata gave us the city rover. That’s basically what a JLR product is these days, a city rover with bells on.
In fairness, they were famed for being unreliable long before Tata got involved and they're still assembled here.
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Its simple for some buyers like myself, i want reliability as much as i want practicality, value, etc.
Of course there are compromises when selecting a car but not to the extent of paying considerably more for an unreliable JLR product.
It wouldnt be so bad if they offered a longer manufacturer warranty, not a mere 3 years.
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Its not easy for a maker to keep up with the demand for new models when their particular customers are so demanding, LR gave up on the simple commercial product when old Defender stopped.
The obvious comparison is with Toyota in the 4x4 market, Toyota customers don't really care what the vehicle looks like within reason, a 4x4 isn't (or shouldn't be) a fashion accessory and many years of R&D can go into a Toyota product before it goes on sale so its right, arguably by the time its released its tech is out of date compared with LR's toys but their core customers couldn't give two hoots because it'll still be with them in 20 years time and still running fine. Doesn't matter to them one jot if the audio system packs in they'll simply buy one from the Halfords equivalent and slip it in the dash, the electric park brake locking on* won't immobilse the vehicle because it isn't saddled with such pointless things.
LR have to be at the forefront of design and adding all the latest toys to keep the 3 year ownerships happy, well something has to give and the chances are reliability is going to be that something when things are rushed.
* Andrew St Pierre White in a recent video mentioned about new Defender's issues if the battery goes flat (it happens out in the field), not a case of grab a jump start from someone passing, even basic recovery without laptop and internet connection and correct software can prove difficult due to the EPB refusing to disengage, not an issue in leafy Surrey or urban Sydney but out in the field worldwide?
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* Andrew St Pierre White in a recent video mentioned about new Defender's issues if the battery goes flat (it happens out in the field), not a case of grab a jump start from someone passing, even basic recovery without laptop and internet connection and correct software can prove difficult due to the EPB refusing to disengage, not an issue in leafy Surrey or urban Sydney but out in the field worldwide?
So the electronic parking brake cannot be powered up externally to release it?
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Why JLR can't build reliable cars?
Surely building cars at this day and age is not as complex as sending rockets to Moon.
What things JLR doing wrong?
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So the electronic parking brake cannot be powered up externally to release it?
I would have thought so too, simply adding power from jump leads should see it all firing up again, but not from what Andrew was saying, you need laptop with doubtless suitable software installed and obviously more battery power but said device needs connecting to the internet, in remote area unless you have 'starlink' or whatever such a system is called what hope of an internet connection? In the case he spoke about the vehicle ended up being dragged onto what must be a serious off road wrecker where dragging it destroyed the tyres...the whole scenario seems ludicrous to me for a vehicle likely to be used in remote areas.
I'd have thought there would be some way to power the park brake off (but at what cost to warranty on a new vehicle if short circuiting or wire cutting is involved, i know there are emergency methods sometimes stated in the handbook but haven't a clue what the LR method would be, had to refer to such once when delivering a C4 Picasso which locked the parkbrake on my transporter (thankfully on the bottom deck), there's something that looked suspiciously like an IUD in the tool bag which when insterted trhough a rubber bung in the transmission tunnel and engaged with some device after turning a few times something audibly snaps and the brake is then released...what a faff, i'm hoping never to own a vehicle with such a pointless device.
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So the electronic parking brake cannot be powered up externally to release it?
Never had to do it but in Skodas you can access the emergency release which is under the gear selector.
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So the electronic parking brake cannot be powered up externally to release it?
Never had to do it but in Skodas you can access the emergency release which is under the gear selector.
But can you open the doors if the battery is flat?
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So the electronic parking brake cannot be powered up externally to release it?
Never had to do it but in Skodas you can access the emergency release which is under the gear selector.
But can you open the doors if the battery is flat?
There is an emergency key in the fob.
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So the electronic parking brake cannot be powered up externally to release it?
Never had to do it but in Skodas you can access the emergency release which is under the gear selector.
But can you open the doors if the battery is flat?
There is an emergency key in the fob.
Is it the flimsey plastic one as used by some VWs? They're prone to breaking at the point of use!
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I can't see that JLR have got any incentive to improve. They've got thier customers hooked on the branding and image. Many of them are very well heeled, and some expensive repairs won't bother them at all. The not so well heeled will want to own one of their products regardless of the expense.
JLR will only change if the car sales fall off a cliff and they're at risk of going under. As long as they wheel out trendy new designs and chintz rich interiors and the punters keep buying and repairing them, they're sitting pretty.
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Got to admit the stying of the new Defender gets it right from all angles. A friend who had no need for a new car decided he wanted one of those and bought it on impulse !
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Obviously it's a matter of taste (and money) but the new Defender looks to me to be utterly pointless. Ludicrously big, heavy, expensive, costly to fuel and about as reliable as Boris Johnson.
Unreliability doesn't seem to discourage some people at all - a friend of mine had a very troublesome Discovery Sport. It spent literally months at the dealer waiting for parts while he drove around in various brand new LR products they lent him. He got so fed up with waiting for it back that he ordered a new...Velar!
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Unreliability doesn't seem to discourage some people at all - a friend of mine had a very troublesome Discovery Sport. It spent literally months at the dealer waiting for parts while he drove around in various brand new LR products they lent him. He got so fed up with waiting for it back that he ordered a new...Velar!
I once read an owner's scathing review of his Citroen C5, the list of faults was long and the chap understandably bitter, but the last sentence made my day, 'and the new one is just as bad'...
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It's automotive Stockholm Syndrome. Sympathy and affection for the one's who abuse you.
Reminds me of a childhood wrestling with Airfix kits. You buy the kit, it's incredibly fiddly to break the pieces out of the plastic cast, nothing fits together cleanly, and the glue goes everywhere. Yet you go buy another, partly blaming yourself, and thinking "the next one will be amazing!"
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That's Park for the transmission, not the Electronic Parking Brake. They cannot be released mechanically, only by powering them locally or removing the motor/gear housing from the calliper. Same on any car part from very old Land Rover Discoveries and very old Renault Espaces that worked using an electric device that pulled the handbrake cables!
Edited by snufflegrunt on 16/11/2023 at 16:53
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JlR are continuing to be masters of product placement with almost all the vehicles in Amazon Primes amazing adventure contest :-
007 Race to the millions.
Really worth watching as the challenges are shot in most of the setting of the James Bond films. Venice, Rio , Jamaica etc
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Blimey, are you really calling a Discovery 3 or 4 "very old" ?
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