the hybrid, would be your best bet.
the hybrid is excellent but my mum will need it more regularly from september, and she can't drive a manual because of arthritis. used hybrid automatics seem to be about 16k, unless we're looking in the wrong place?
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It's all moving towards auto, manual boxes will soon be a thing of the past. So I'd just buy probably a hybrid or auto and enjoy it. Folk like me, who have had decades of driving manuals will probably stick with then for longer but even I can see that our current petrol manuals may be the last we have! A good auto makes life a lot easier in traffic, just avoid the most unreliable ones eg Ford's powershift and VW dsg units, although I believe they might be better now, possibly!
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Goodness knows why anyone would want a manual nowadays. Imagine if all cars had been autos till now, and a maker decided to produce a car with a manually operated gearbox involving an extra pedal and a lever to push and pull into and out of a number of positions. Who on earth would want one?
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used hybrid automatics seem to be about 16k, unless we're looking in the wrong place?
You are, a Yaris hybrid without excessive miles can easily be bought under £10k, as can a Prius, though both will be older than an equivalent non hybrid auto, which in turn will be older than an equivalent car with a manual gearbox.
You can easily buy a good reliable auto car for your £10k, but it is going to be a year or two older than an equivalent manual. So the only question to be asked at the moment is whether that is fine with you?.
Goodness knows why anyone would want a manual nowadays. Imagine if all cars had been autos till now, and a maker decided to produce a car with a manually operated gearbox involving an extra pedal and a lever to push and pull into and out of a number of positions. Who on earth would want one?
Going for an auto version of a small to medium car will mean either an older car for the same money or a more expensive one at the same age compared to a manual.
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Goodness knows why anyone would want a manual nowadays. Imagine if all cars had been autos till now, and a maker decided to produce a car with a manually operated gearbox involving an extra pedal and a lever to push and pull into and out of a number of positions. Who on earth would want one?
I'm beginning to ask myself the same question after 50 years of driving! All the cars I've owned have been manual but I'm thinking auto next time. I've driven other people's automatics and long trips in those cars seem less tiring, despite manual gears being second nature to me. I suppose there's a whole lot of thinking you don't have to do, even if you don't realise it, and that makes a difference.
The other thing is that as we move over to electric cars, manual gearboxes will become a historical curiosity, since EVs are effectively 'automatic' from the driving viewpoint, although in reality they have a single-speed transmission that is permanently engaged.
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I would. Driving an automatic I put my left foot on the brake to psychologically change gear, came to a grinding halt and nearly had a car ram into the back.
Happy to take taxis rather than drive an automatic
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That's just familiarisation surely? You would get used to it.
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I would. Driving an automatic I put my left foot on the brake to psychologically change gear, came to a grinding halt and nearly had a car ram into the back. Happy to take taxis rather than drive an automatic
Driven mostly manuals since 1961, but had 2 automatics for a few years, automatic hire cars in the USA on a few business trips, no problem switching from auto to manual or the other way.
I get a certain amount of satisfaction from smooth changes in a manual, of autos I have driven I've liked some better than others.
The same applies to manuals, four - speed column change setups varied in precision and ease of use, floor change usually better, gear ratios are something else that make a difference to how likeable the are.
Edited by galileo on 13/08/2022 at 21:32
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I would. Driving an automatic I put my left foot on the brake to psychologically change gear, came to a grinding halt and nearly had a car ram into the back. Happy to take taxis rather than drive an automatic
When you first start driving an automatic you have to consciously put your left foot under the seat and keep it there, to avoid that kind of mistake. It only takes a week or so to get used to the autobox and after that you will wonder why you ever bothered with a manual.
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First time I drove someone else's auto, they told me to take my left shoe off. That helped me not do the same thing till I got accustomed to it.
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First time I drove someone else's auto, they told me to take my left shoe off. That helped me not do the same thing till I got accustomed to it.
Doesn't work if, like me, one habitually drives barefoot.
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Goodness knows why anyone would want a manual nowadays. Imagine if all cars had been autos till now, and a maker decided to produce a car with a manually operated gearbox involving an extra pedal and a lever to push and pull into and out of a number of positions. Who on earth would want one?
I want one, and this despite having driven countless automatic vehicles over the years. I enjoy driving, I like nothing better than to drive a car with an excellent manual gearbox, thus my fondness for Mazda’s. I’m not saying I dislike a good auto, a proper torque converter auto, I just take much more pleasure from it while autos detach you from the car, it becomes a simple appliance to get you from a to b. This is of course what most people want from a car, and it suits a relaxed luxury car but those of us who are enthusiasts will always prefer a manual. Sadly they will die as electric cars take over, but I did read something a while back relating to a manual gearbox designed to work with an electric motor so fingers crossed.
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I did read something a while back relating to a manual gearbox designed to work with an electric motor so fingers crossed.
I'm pretty sure you already do. (unless I imagined it) I read about a classic 911 being retro fitted with an electric motor and it had a manual box. If memory serves, the idea was to make it behave as much like the original car as was possible with an electric motor (including the lift off oversteer).
But surely for the vast majority, that would be pointless?. The reason EV's (Porsche Taycan excepted, which has a 2 speed transmission) don't have a gearbox of any kind, is because they simply don't need them. In the case of the Porsche, I believe it is to offer Tesla rivalling acceleration, and better high speed performance. But for most cars without a ludicrous amount of power, shoehorning in a manual box would surely mean restricting the electric motor in some way or other to make a reason to manually row your way through the gears?.
To my mind, doing that would be a bit like reducing the picture quality of a modern HD film to make it appeal to folk who are all warm and fuzzy about the poor quality images they had on screen as a child.
Also, given that there is unlikely to ever be a complete ban on ICE cars, it is even more unlikely that EV's would routinely be fitted with a manual box. Folk who want three pedals can keep a nice old school hot or warm hatch, MX5 or whatever, to take out for a blast on a Sunday morning.
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Folk who want three pedals can keep a nice old school hot or warm hatch, MX5 or whatever, to take out for a blast on a Sunday morning.
Indeed so. Double de-clutch the TR7 into 2nd (this phrase will be incomprehensible soon) for a small wet roundabout and hoon out of it with a touch of opposite lock...;-)
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Folk who want three pedals can keep a nice old school hot or warm hatch, MX5 or whatever, to take out for a blast on a Sunday morning.
Indeed so. Double de-clutch the TR7 into 2nd (this phrase will be incomprehensible soon) for a small wet roundabout and hoon out of it with a touch of opposite lock...;-)
That phrase has been incomprehensible for many decades now, certainly on cars without syncromesh where you HAVE to double declutch, rather than choosing to on a TR7
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First time I drove someone else's auto, they told me to take my left shoe off. That helped me not do the same thing till I got accustomed to it.
Haven't heard that one before but my Dad was told to tuck his left foot against the front of the seat till he got used to it.
I passed my test in 1989 (in a manual) and had my first experience of driving an auto the following year when I got a job at a SAAB dealer. Never had any problems swapping between the two.
Given the choice now, I'd take an auto (assuming it to be a reliable type which works as it should) any day. But the price is an issue, certainly on small cars where an auto wouldn't be a common choice, the difference between auto and manual can be surprisingly large!.
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But for most cars without a ludicrous amount of power, shoehorning in a manual box would surely mean restricting the electric motor in some way or other to make a reason to manually row your way through the gears?.
Yes, an electric motor would destroy a manual box due to the much higher instanteous torque.
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For me auto every time. Day to day driving is a functional activity challenged by speed cameras and congestion. Priority is getting from A to B with minimum hassle.
I understand the satisfaction in coordinating hand and feet to make seamless gear changes creating the illusion that your skill is improving the experience. I used to think that way too.
Over the coming few years fewer folk will bother with a manual licence. In 10 years time it will be all but pointless. Clutch and gears will be as relevant to modern transport as the bow and arrow to modern warfare, or horse and cart to a DHL driver.
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Personally, I'd go for a manual at this stage. Firstly because on a lowish budget you'll get more for your money. Secondly, and more importantly, I agree that it's becoming obsolete but it is still a useful skill that could do with practice. Hiring a van or travelling in countries such as New Zealand that have less of a throwaway culture is probably going to mean driving a manual, so you don't want to lose that ability.
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Personally, I'd go for a manual at this stage. Firstly because on a lowish budget you'll get more for your money.
A very good reason - and probably the only one for most people.
Something that hasn't been mentioned is the contention that an intelligent autobox protects the engine from the stresses and strains resulting from unskilled co-ordination of a manual gearbox and a pedal clutch and accelerator, thus conferring increased longevity which might ultimately offset the extra initial cost.
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I don't know what is happening in the UK but here in Australia it is getting hard to resell a secondhand manual. Most younger drivers only have an auto licence and can't drive a manual. 85% of new cars are now autos and many importers don't even list manuals anymore. My daughter in law tried to buy a new VW SUV manual and was told they no longer sell them. She had to get an auto with the horrid DSG box.
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I don't know what is happening in the UK but here in Australia it is getting hard to resell a secondhand manual. Most younger drivers only have an auto licence and can't drive a manual. 85% of new cars are now autos and many importers don't even list manuals anymore. My daughter in law tried to buy a new VW SUV manual and was told they no longer sell them. She had to get an auto with the horrid DSG box.
Possibly due to more hybrids and PHEVs coming onto the market, where a lot are auto only. For people who aren't keen on autos or feel they won't be able to learn (as my parents do), their options are becoming increasingly limited in terms of new cars, even at the supermini end of the market.
As others have said, the convenience and 'comfort' of driving an auto, especially if you've learned on one or can easily switch over, seems to be taking hold. Even I as a driver of manuals since I passed my test 30 years ago is seriously considering getting an auto next time around.
I found urban driving a pfaff and it also significantly contributed to my current car wearing out its clutch much sooner than expected due to ths stop-star/edging nature of the daily commute.
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I don't know what is happening in the UK but here in Australia it is getting hard to resell a secondhand manual. Most younger drivers only have an auto licence and can't drive a manual. 85% of new cars are now autos and many importers don't even list manuals anymore. My daughter in law tried to buy a new VW SUV manual and was told they no longer sell them. She had to get an auto with the horrid DSG box.
Possibly due to more hybrids and PHEVs coming onto the market, where a lot are auto only. For people who aren't keen on autos or feel they won't be able to learn (as my parents do), their options are becoming increasingly limited in terms of new cars, even at the supermini end of the market.
Australia has always had a greater percentage of automatic cars than the UK. So stands to reason that any increase in that percentage is going to have a more noticeable effect than the UK (at present).
I had a look on Autotrader(*) in Australia, out of a total of 75k cars for sale, 62k are automatic. Autotrader in the UK has 432k cars for sale out of which 198k are automatic.
That is definitely a factor, but there are others. First, with the massive increase in leasing, folk will generally have a much higher spec car with a much higher list price than previous generations would have. So they are much more likely to be in an auto regardless of whether ICE electric or hybrid. Second, a far higher percentage of younger folk have no interest in driving beyond getting from A to B, so they are not going to bother choosing an option which requires more input. Another factor is that engineering a car to only accept one form of transmission is going to be cheaper for the manufacturers than two. Tying that in with the previous two factors is the fact that offering only automatic frees up space in the centre console on which to fit more screens/gadgets which will appeal more to the modern 'driver'.
She had to get an auto with the horrid DSG box.
She didn't have to, she could have chosen a different make with a less horrid auto box.
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Meant to add!
*Re Autotrader in Australia, I don't think it is related to the UK one (totally different layout and appearance), so not sure how big/popular the site is relative to ours.
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There is nothing horrid about most DSGs. In fact, particularly combined with larger engines which have a wet cutch they are absolutely brilliant. They do have a reputation of being less reliable than torque converter boxes but even that is probably out-of-date for the newer ones.
If I was buying a new car and didn't plan to keep to high miles I'd have no worries. It is only when buying used at older / higher miles I'd get more wary.
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In terms of auto/manual choice there are whole ranges of models which 10 years ago had a 50/50 manual/auto mix which you can't even buy in manual any more.
Cars like a 3-Series which were majority manual 10 years ago I'm not sure even offered, 5-Series auto only. Can you even buy any Volvo model with a manual gearbox now?
LIke CRT televisions manual cars seem to be disappearing from sale without anyone really noticing.
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I’d really like an auto, I quite like the look of the Yaris cross which is a hybrid,however, convincing the missus that a car that changes gear by itself isn’t the work of the devil will be quite a job…..
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I had a DSG in a 2018 Golf. It was great on the open road and abysmal in traffic or manoeuvring.
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A few decades ago, autos often had only 3 gears and torque convertors which deserved the name "slush box". An auto meant much higher fuel consumption and much poorer performance,
Compared to the US and possibly Australia where cars typically had larger more powerful engines, most small UK automatic cars were seriously compromised and driven only by those who could not manage a manual.
Most autos on sale today exist due to increasing numbers of EV and hybrids, and that autos now seem to perform as well as their manual equivalents.
That anyone today chooses manual over auto can only be down to habit, familiarity, or the largely illusory belief that with extra control driving performance will be optimised. Like other obsolete technology (eg: carbide lamps, drum brakes etc) they will soon be history.
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Second, a far higher percentage of younger folk have no interest in driving beyond getting from A to B, so they are not going to bother choosing an option which requires more input.. .
And yet quite a lot of these "younger folk" spend quite a lot of time on computer games, which I assume (negligable experience) gives similar hand-eye coordination satisfaction but which doesn't get you anywhere.
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<< I enjoy driving, I like nothing better than to drive a car with an excellent manual gearbox ... I’m not saying I dislike a good auto, a proper torque converter auto ... >>
When I learnt to drive more than 60 years ago, autos were a luxury and pretty well everyone learnt on a manual car. Autos were always more expensive (like for like) and they always used more fuel, so the choice was a no-brainer for ordinary folk. In my case old habits die hard, and the only autos I have driven were hire cars. I can't recall having a car with a problem gearbox, though I wouldn't claim many were silky-smooth either. But one can enjoy trying to make gear changes imperceptible ....
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Goodness knows why anyone would want a manual nowadays. Imagine if all cars had been autos till now, and a maker decided to produce a car with a manually operated gearbox involving an extra pedal and a lever to push and pull into and out of a number of positions. Who on earth would want one?
Always good to acquire a new skill.
But seriously though. Manuals very rare here in Taiwan so I had to drive an automatic Ford Sierra DOHC as my first car here.
Would have been quite a nice drive with a manual transmission, and probably wouldn't have used so much petrol.
At UK prices the petrol consumption would have been a big deal.
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I had to drive an automatic Ford Sierra DOHC as my first car here.
Would have been quite a nice drive with a manual transmission,
I had a couple of manual Sierras as company cars, the MT75 was a very nice gearbox & I enjoyed the Sierra as a drive.
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