I believe the 2.2 Mazda diesel is fine if you do the kind of usage diesel is appropriate for. The problems arise (as it does for most modern diesels to some degree) when it is used for short urban journeys. That does not mean I'd take the chance even if I was doing the milage!.
Bottom line, if you don't do the miles to make diesel a safe option, don't get a diesel!
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I fit into the short urban journeys group. Having said that our Ford diesel has been fine, great in fact. So you think diesels in general should be avoided (for short journeys) or the Mazda in particular? The Peugeot 3008 was another option we liked - again, should we avoid diesels there too?!
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I would avoid all Peugeots! Because the majority of new cars are bought through manufacturer's finance via PCP, they now tend to offer warranties that match the standard finance term of 3 years. Most buyers don't care that the warranty runs out after 3 years because they just take the car back and get a new one.
If you're buying a 2019 car, you're probably buying one of those. There's nothing wrong with that at all, but it won't have a warranty. The cost of PCP deals always reflects how much the manufacturers think they will lose in depreciation over the term. So, a PCP on a VW will always be cheaper than an equivalent RRP on a Peugeot. People (wrongly) assume that used VWs will be problem free, so the residuals are higher and the depreciation lower.
Peugeot make some very good cars, but they have a long history of producing some real duffers too. I don't think anyone could say for sure whether the 3008 will be a good one or a bad one, but Peugeot are not famed for reliability.
If I was buying a car that I intended to keep for a long time, didn't want to gamble on bills, and couldn't just take back to the dealer when it started getting old, I would go for something with a long warranty. That means Kia (7 years / 100,000 miles), Toyota/Lexus (5 years but extended to up to 10 if you service with them) or Ssangyong (7 years). So Kia Niro or Sorrento, Toyota RAV4 or Ssangyong Korando.
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I would avoid all Peugeots! Peugeot make some very good cars, but they have a long history of producing some real duffers too.
Another anti-French comment (I suppose you will include Citroens as well ?)
Buying an unknown vehicle always carries some risk, which buyers try to limit with a worthwhile warranty. All I would say is that my personal experience with Peugeots - more than twenty since 1985 - tends to disprove your suggestion. All those cars have been trustworthy; just one was moved on quickly because its seats became uncomfortable after an hour's driving. That is only a small sample, but worth quoting to balance against rather unspecific criticism.
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No-one asked about Citroens.
Both the 207 and 307 have appalling reliability records, as do all other cars equipped with the ironically named Prince engine. The 605, you may recall, really started the descent 25 years ago and was legendary for issues. Peugeot appear to have upped their game again in recent years, but the 3008 is new enough that I wouldn't recommend buying one until it has proven itself. It's about risk, and I would perceive a used Peugeot as a high risk option.
I'm not sure I agree with your view that more than 20 Peugeots since 1985 proves anything other than that you don't keep them very long!
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I'm not sure I agree with your view that more than 20 Peugeots since 1985 proves anything other than that you don't keep them very long!
You have to allow for the possibility (and fact) that I (and SWMBO) might own more than one at a time. I have owned the 207 parked outside since 2008, partly because it gives me no problems at all, despite its diesel engine.
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I fit into the short urban journeys group. Having said that our Ford diesel has been fine, great in fact. So you think diesels in general should be avoided (for short journeys) or the Mazda in particular? The Peugeot 3008 was another option we liked - again, should we avoid diesels there too?!
Note that you do have a 2L (non turbo) Skyavtiv-G petrol option for the CX-5, which gives decent fuel efficiency at around the manual version at 40ish mpg and 35 for the auto if driven sensibly. Not quick, but fine for everyday driving.
The TC auto isn't the most efficient, but is very smooth and is a related drive (I've test driven its equivalent in both the Mazda3 and smaller [no out of production] CX-3) for the urban driver. It (the auto box) will be likely more reliable than dual clutch 'autos' if you do a decent amount of urban driving in heavy traffic.
Note also in the Mazda range is the more recent crossover (all petrol) CX-30, which has the benefits of both the CX-5 and 3 with lesser downsides. You may not be able to find one in your price range though, given the current market.
Modern petrol engines often give a much closer mpg in real-world driving to the 'official' figures than diesels, especially when more of the driving is urban. See the 'Real MPG' section for such figures.
Have you thought of estate cars to get that decent boot space but with less of an mpg penalty (lower weight and air resistance) than MPVs / SUVs / crossovers?
TBH, if your current car serves you well, is not falling to bits / costing a fortune is spares [noting how expensive replacement cars are now for comparison], there's a good case for keeping it going until the likely big worldwide recession comes, and inevitably prices slide because of a lack of demand. Unless you have to change car because its just not big enough or because of problems (doesn't appear to be any*), then if I were you, I'd keep yours.
* Note that your car may likely not be one that 'complies' with the London ULEZ of EU5-rated (or below) engines for diesels and would incur a big daily charge on top of the 'Congestion' charge. There is no discount for residents within the affected zone - only some (some temporary) for certain groups, e.g. disabled persons.
Other major cities seem to be going down the same path to adopt similar regs. Note also that at the moment, the compliance level for petrol cars is EU4, meaning much older cars (including my 2005 built Mazda3 1.6 petrol) don't incur that charge.
Depending on your locale / workplace, etc, this may become a factor in whether and when you charge car.
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I believe the 2.2 Mazda diesel is fine if you do the kind of usage diesel is appropriate for. The problems arise (as it does for most modern diesels to some degree) when it is used for short urban journeys. That does not mean I'd take the chance even if I was doing the milage!.
Bottom line, if you don't do the miles to make diesel a safe option, don't get a diesel!
A friend has recently bought a 2015 CX 7 diesel and is delighted with it apart from a whistling noise on acceleration.
Fearing a huge bill from the main dealer he took it to a local diesel specialist who found a leak between the turbo and the manifold.
They are planning to fix the problem with a weld and a supporting bracket.
I imagine the cost of replacing the manifold could be not be justified.
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I worried people would say that..! :)
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I worried people would say that..! :)
Given you want to keep the car many years, Toyota RAV4 hybrid. Though you may need to scrape together another grand or two!.
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Yes, you want petrol for those kinds of journeys (or hybrid, or electric).
What is it about the CX-5 that you particularly like? I'm assuming the better-than-most styling and the better-than-almost-everything-reasonably-priced interior?
Did you mention how many miles you do per annum?
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I have a 14 reg CX-5, bought second hand six years ago. It's petrol; I wasn't prepared to take a chance on diesel and I think the jury is still out on whether more recent Mazda diesels are more reliable.
I love the car. It suits me better than any other car I've owned in nearly sixty years of motoring. But it's probably not for everyone. I'm not concerned about powerful acceleration, which you will get from the petrol version only by thrashing it a bit and using the gearbox. I get very good economy (around 43/45 mpg in mixed driving) by being gentle with my right foot. I find the driving experience excellent, the handling superb and it's comfortable on a long journey.
Best of all, it's been very reliable. In six years and 30,000 miles or so I've put four tyres on it, replaced brake pads and the rear brake disks and that's it. No breakdowns. No failure of any component except a rear brake light.
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So you think diesels in general should be avoided (for short journeys) or the Mazda in particular?
In a word, yes!
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Our budget is up to £20k
The old shape RAV4 (pre 2020 facelift) are available at this price range. They also come with features like adaptive cruise control.
Kia Sportage (pre 2022 facelift) will also be well within that budget although Sportage doesn't get those safety features unless you go for GT Line S trim which is still over 20k in general.
I always wondered why Mazda didn't up the warranty from 3 years. I too like CX5 but feel not worth taking the risk when compared with Kia or Toyota.
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Our budget is up to £20k
The old shape RAV4 (pre 2020 facelift) are available at this price range. They also come with features like adaptive cruise control.
If you do decide to go with a RAV4 I would recommend that you go with a 5th gen (iirc 2019 in the UK) rather than a 4th if you can. There was an (imo) improvement from the new platform.
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Our budget is up to £20k
The old shape RAV4 (pre 2020 facelift) are available at this price range. They also come with features like adaptive cruise control.
Kia Sportage (pre 2022 facelift) will also be well within that budget although Sportage doesn't get those safety features unless you go for GT Line S trim which is still over 20k in general.
I always wondered why Mazda didn't up the warranty from 3 years. I too like CX5 but feel not worth taking the risk when compared with Kia or Toyota.
The UK (or EU) Mazda warranty is, in my view, like with many, a marketing decision to the minimum they can get away with in that part of the world. In Australia, for example, they currently offer a 5 year, unlimited mileage warranty - but then they have much more consumer-friendly laws there.
I think that the 3 years, 60,000 mile warranty is quite common - it's the same as in the US.
I agree, and despite Mazdas being (in my opinion) at the top of the styling and handling tree (reasonable on performance and mpg), I would certainly consider other makes like KIA and Hyundai with longer, more comprehensive warranties in the UK.
Given cars these days are supposed to be far more superior in terms of longevity and reliability than 10 or 20+ years ago, they should come with long warranties, and not just those associated with corrosion.
To me, it signals they either aren't willing to back up their claims of higher quality or that the pen-pushers and PR people are way too much in charge. If their petrol cars are good on reliability (mechanically they appear to be), then they are losing out on a LOT of sales, especially now that Mazdas (at least in this part of the world where their more powerful engined cars aren't on sale) cannot be considered 'Zoom-Zoom' any more.
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Agree. If it's that good, why is the warranty short? As I've said somewhere else in this thread, I think it's because almost all new cars sold to private buyers are on PCP, so the buyer just hands it back when the warranty expires. Other than the very rich, who don't care, the majority of cash buyers are older so gravitate to Kia, Toyota and Hyundai.
It's about market isn't it? Mazda primarily sell 6s and CX5/7 to fleets and MX5s on PCP or to people with cash acting irrationally (that being the market for soft tops in the UK!)
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Agree. If it's that good, why is the warranty short? As I've said somewhere else in this thread, I think it's because almost all new cars sold to private buyers are on PCP, so the buyer just hands it back when the warranty expires. Other than the very rich, who don't care, the majority of cash buyers are older so gravitate to Kia, Toyota and Hyundai.
It's about market isn't it? Mazda primarily sell 6s and CX5/7 to fleets and MX5s on PCP or to people with cash acting irrationally (that being the market for soft tops in the UK!)
Not sure about the sales profile there! :-) CX-7s haven't been sold here for 10 years now.
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Agree. If it's that good, why is the warranty short? As I've said somewhere else in this thread, I think it's because almost all new cars sold to private buyers are on PCP, so the buyer just hands it back when the warranty expires. Other than the very rich, who don't care, the majority of cash buyers are older so gravitate to Kia, Toyota and Hyundai.
It's about market isn't it? Mazda primarily sell 6s and CX5/7 to fleets and MX5s on PCP or to people with cash acting irrationally (that being the market for soft tops in the UK!)
Not sure about the sales profile there! :-) CX-7s haven't been sold here for 10 years now.
I always think CX-30s are CX-5s and that CX-5s are CX-7s....
Can't we go back to cars all being given the names of exotic sounding places?
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