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the old chestnut.... private parking!! - concrete

Hello Chaps, don't fall off your chairs... this is Concrete. Moved back North last year and things been hectic ever since, and I mean hectic. Now the dust is settled I am back. Just in time too. Today a friend got a letter from some legal outfit representing Northwest Parking. I was with her at the time and am mystified too by this claim. We parked in Hartlepool Marina on 3/3/21 over 10 months ago. We are aware of various parking problems and would have taken care to comply with any posted regulations. We had a coffee and left. Nothing since then. No ticket on the car, no letters asking for money, nothing until now. I was wondering if there is a time limit on claiming money for breaking parking regulations. Also the time lapse is surely grounds for appeal in the event we did transgress the regulations.

I have an Electrician arriving today so can't leave home. Tomorrow I shall visit the Marina and check out the parking and signage etc. Maybe camera monitored or patrolled. In the meantime any useful comments are welcome.

Cheers Concrete

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - daveyjp

Good to see you back.

They have six years to pursue the debt. For case specific info and help Moneysavingexpert forum has lots of advice. Don't do anything in haste as regards contacting anyone about the alleged debt until your friend understands more,

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - sammy1

My advice is to not respond at all, The ""fines "" these people issue are NOT fines they are invoices. The odds are the company will not pursue and it will go away

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - Cris_on_the_gas

A PCN (Parking Charge Notice) must be issued within 28 days of the charge. So looks like you are well in the clear

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - Bromptonaut

My advice is to not respond at all, The ""fines "" these people issue are NOT fines they are invoices. The odds are the company will not pursue and it will go away

That used to be good advice but since the Beavis case in the Supreme Court endorsed the system and the reasonableness of the charges the parking companies have been more bullish about going to court. By all means ignore but be ready to defend yourself in court.

As regards timing the company sending the Parking Charge Notice has to comply with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. The relevant provisions are in Sch 4, para 9 (5) appears to require the notice to the keeper to be served within 14 days of the 'infringement'.

Now it may be the parking company say they have done that and that perhaps something has gone astray. As a minimum they'd need to be able to show it was posted.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - sammy1

These private parking companies are nothing but legalised crooks. The wife overstayed in Jan last year by 19minutes due to delays in shops in lockdown

First came the demand for £100 with a discount to £60 if paid within 14 days, Ignored. Then a bill for the £100. ignored It then ramped up to £140. ignored. Then the demands stered and threads to court. The demands reached some £254 some how and threatening with county court. The demand then went back down again to £170 if the bill was paid. Ignored. We have not heard anything now for some 9 months so hope it has gone away. They can take us to court any time they wish over £254 for 19minutes.

There have been numerous TV programmes about this and it is a nightmare for some. My advice is to not use private car parks if you can avoid. Euro Car Parks is the outfit in our case

The DVLA is compliant with these crooks for a fee of £2.50. Something needs to be done.

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - Andrew-T

They can take us to court any time they wish over £254 for 19 minutes.

The trouble is that the rules are there for all to see. Claiming misfortune due to unforeseen delays is a little like missing a train because of a traffic jam (someone recently threatened court action at the heritage line I volunteer at, despite the train having waited 10 mins for them).

Many years ago SWMBO was fined by a council authority for underpaying her ticket by 5p. She had paid the correct amount, but the machine didn't recognise one small coin. Couldn't prove anything of course, and it would be just the excuse a cheater would make, having intentionally underpaid.

Edited by Andrew-T on 25/01/2022 at 12:58

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - Bromptonaut

These private parking companies are nothing but legalised crooks. The wife overstayed in Jan last year by 19minutes due to delays in shops in lockdown

The shop is fully entitled to use enforcement to ensure spaces are not used by commuters, sportsground attendees etc.

Local Sainsburys is close to The Cobblers' ground and uses cameras together with reduced permitted time (2 hours rather than 3) on matchdays.

Halfords have no cameras or other enforcement. Their car park is full whenever The Saints (RUFC) are at home.

If you are sent a Charge Notice for being over because of delays in the shop then contest it using your receipt as proof and see whether you can involve the store. Or just pay the reduced rate and chalk it down to experience.

The Small Claims judge may or may not be sympathetic but if they're not £254 will be quite a bit more with court fees and fixed costs added on.

The DVLA is compliant with these crooks for a fee of £2.50. Something needs to be done.

The DVLA could do more to sort out the crooks. OTOH plenty of people, not just retail car parks but people with residential parking close to commuter stations too, should be able to enforce unlawful occupation of their land.

DVLA are not going to make much money at £2.50/pop once running costs are accounted for.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 25/01/2022 at 20:24

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - Wee Willie Winkie

Anyone who just ignores these invoices is misguided and will probably end up with a CCJ.

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - SLO76

Anyone who just ignores these invoices is misguided and will probably end up with a CCJ.

I’ve had a few over the years and have yet to pay a single one. I advise others to do the same and again those I know who’ve followed my advice have yet to see the inside of a court. Living in Scotland does mean different rules however.

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - Bromptonaut

I’ve had a few over the years and have yet to pay a single one. I advise others to do the same and again those I know who’ve followed my advice have yet to see the inside of a court. Living in Scotland does mean different rules however.

The bolded bit is key; Beavis was an English case.

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - alan1302

These private parking companies are nothing but legalised crooks. The wife overstayed in Jan last year by 19minutes due to delays in shops in lockdown

How would you ensure people stick to the rules in car parks then?

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - sammy1

These private parking companies are nothing but legalised crooks. The wife overstayed in Jan last year by 19minutes due to delays in shops in lockdown

How would you ensure people stick to the rules in car parks then?

I believe that there is an on going enquiry into new legislation to control the cowboys, something in the order of there being maximum """fines"" they are allowed to impose and their way of operating. In my case £100 to £60 if paid early is OTT and to get to £254 and then £170 is plain stupid and the threats something else. I sincerely hope the directors of these outfits are brought into a more reasonable way of operating

My wife was not parked in a store car park but in a general privately owned park operating a system which photographs and times the number plate on entry and leaving. If the ""fine had been reasonable say £20 I would have had little to quibble about. What loss 19 minutes of parking space was to the company is hardly £100... It is not worth responding to the likes of these companies as you get nowhere in any case.

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - Andrew-T

<< If the ""fine had been reasonable say £20 I would have had little to quibble about. What loss 19 minutes of parking space was to the company is hardly £100... >>

Sammy, you are being obtuse. If your wife's car had not been there for those 19 minutes, it might have made the difference between one available space and none. That is clearly significant to a car park operator.

Of course it probably wasn't like that. But it easily could have been.

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - sammy1

One car space equals £2.50 per hour It would mean 40 cars driving in and out to get to £100 loss. Cannot see why you want to defend these SHYSTERS! Yes Mrs was in the wrong but she was delayed and made an honest error

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - Bromptonaut

One car space equals £2.50 per hour It would mean 40 cars driving in and out to get to £100 loss. Cannot see why you want to defend these SHYSTERS! Yes Mrs was in the wrong but she was delayed and made an honest error

The fairness and legality of charging a penalty where the rules are broken was examined at length in the Beavis case:

www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2013-0280-judg...f

Your wife had the option of challenging the penalty, if it was a checkout logjam in Lockdown and she can evidence that then there's a reasonable chance of success.

I've never challenged one on private land but was successful at the Tribunal when caught out by Camden Council's poor signage/roadmarking.

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - sammy1

"""Your wife had the option of challenging the penalty, if it was a checkout logjam in Lockdown and she can evidence that then there's a reasonable chance of success. """

Yes she still has if after all this time they wish to try their luck in court. I have all their threatening correspondence and I believe any reasonable court will throw it out.

As for overstaying there are many people who park that choose to leave early freeing up spaces so where is the parking companies loss? If any thing they are gaining on most people not staying for the time they paid for. No they are making a good living and being plain greedy trying to frighten people into paying their extortionate ""fines""

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - Bromptonaut

Yes she still has if after all this time they wish to try their luck in court. I have all their threatening correspondence and I believe any reasonable court will throw it out.

The court might well ask why she didn't use the process that the law has put in place to challenge the charge.

As for overstaying there are many people who park that choose to leave early freeing up spaces so where is the parking companies loss? If any thing they are gaining on most people not staying for the time they paid for. No they are making a good living and being plain greedy trying to frighten people into paying their extortionate ""fines""

As I've already pointed out the Beavis case rehea***s all the argument about whether the charges are or are not extortionate. It's worth reading.

In the light of Beavis the court is much more likely to find for the landowner. They may still decide case x is not worth pursuing but that won't stop y or z being pursued.

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - Andrew-T

Cannot see why you want to defend these SHYSTERS! Yes Mrs was in the wrong but she was delayed and made an honest error

Cannot see why you think rules should be easily bent because of an unfortunate circumstance either. If that were the norm, unfortunate circs would be the order of the day. As I said, railway timetables can't really be bent much - but there are some who think they should be.

They may indeed be shysters but they are only doing what is on the tin !

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - sammy1

Well would you believe it sanity at last £50 with a 50% discount no more than councils are allowed to charge. I expect some will find a way around it though!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60282554

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - concrete

Thank you for all the comments. I have been away since posting, family stuff etc etc. so apologise for the delay in replying.

It is a Parking charge notice from a private operator. My friend is certain she complied with the regulations imposed and being a sharp and intelligent retired business woman I tend to agree with her. She has lived at the same address and had the same car for many years she finds it impossible to believe that notification was sent via Royal Mail, or she missed it. She did receive the belated demand alright, so why not previous correspondence?

Thank you Bromptonaut for your useful input. Having discussed this she has written to these people and refuted the claim and requested any evidence, either photographic or written which proves the overstay or the fact they served notice within the required period. She highlighted the time lapse between the alleged notice serving and demand, which was 10 months. This would surely put their case in jeopardy unless they have proof of serving the original notice, which we doubt they have.

All this unwanted aggravation because of a simple process like parking. There must be a simpler way to ensure compliance from motorists and the integrity of the car park owner/operator.

Cheers Concrete

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - _

There must be a simpler way to ensure compliance from motorists and the integrity of the car park owner/operator.

There is. It's called barrier controlled entry and exit.

If I go into Colchester, I park in greyfriars on East hill. £1.50 an hour and zero problems.

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - Engineer Andy

There must be a simpler way to ensure compliance from motorists and the integrity of the car park owner/operator.

There is. It's called barrier controlled entry and exit.

If I go into Colchester, I park in greyfriars on East hill. £1.50 an hour and zero problems.

True, but that would require operators to have both ethics and common sense. :-)

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - concrete

Hello everyone,

Just an update, or more precisely no update. My friends correspondence has been greeted with absolute indifference, no reply or acknowledgement. They were quick enough to demand money but remarkably silent regarding questions. Our guess is that they were reviewing old cases after the year end and decided to send out spurious claims to any cases thought not worthy previously, on the grounds that a fair few will simply pay up on demand. I think we are in the clear but will stay vigilant.

cheers Concrete

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - concrete

Update. Here we are in June and the parking company have not responded in any way. I think the matter is closed.

Cheers Concrete

the old chestnut.... private parking!! - Gibbo_Wirral

They might just be busy with a backlog. I follow a FB called called "Angry People in local newspapers" and Hartlepool Marina parking has been on quite a few times recently.

Just google news for "hartlepool marina parking"