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Presumably Graham Chapman's role was to provide the comedy element, what with being in Monty Python?
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‘Tis but a flesh wound’.
I’ve just been speaking to someone who road tested it ‘back in the day’. The major market was always going to be the US, so handling finesse wasn’t at the top of the list. It was, apparently, a staunch understeerer, and if you tried to provoke it to do anything else it would just understeer more quickly.
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While I have never driven or been driven in a DMC12, I have sat in one. When I worked at a Saab dealer, my boss had lots of wealthy friends who, like him, were showoffs. One of which had a DeLorean and, for whatever reason, it sat in our workshop for a month or so.
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DeLorean:
- John: a creative, innovative man who had shifted from excellence to ego building
- charmed and seduced some naive politicians with tales of awe
- located in NI for purely political reasons
- to build a car of compromised quality (in European terms). US may think it wonderful
- ultimately falling to corruption, dishonesty and drugs
A failed project by the time the first car rolled off the production line. Only "made it" because of Back to the Future promoting an empty image!
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Ok let’s start again.
What part did Colin Chapman play in the project and to a lesser extent Fred Bushell the finance director ?
There was a mention that Chapman offered DLorean a lotus lookalike to produce in NI instead of his car. But there were shots of the small workshop allocated at Hethel that the DL team worked in.
Cant remember but didn’t Chapman pass away shortly after ? He must have been under a lot of stress?
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According to Wikipedia - "From 1978 until his death, Chapman was involved with the American tyc***, John DeLorean, in his development of a stainless steel sports car, to be built in a factory in Northern Ireland which was majority-funded by the UK Government. The original concept design was for a mid-engine sports car, however difficulty in securing the original w***el engine rights and design complications led to the rear-engine mount design.
On 19 October 1982, John DeLorean was charged with trafficking cocaine by the US Government, following a videotaped sting operation at a hotel in Los Angeles, in which he was recorded by undercover FBI agents agreeing to bankroll a 100 kilograms (220 lb) cocaine smuggling operation. DeLorean Motor Cars subsequently collapsed, during which administrators discovered that £10,000,000 of British taxpayers' money (approximately equivalent to £28 million in 2016)had gone missing.
Lotus Group's 1981 accounts were overdue before Chapman's death, but released after his death disclosed that Lotus had been paid for engineering work by DeLorean via a Swiss-based Panamanian company run by a DeLorean distributor, despite Chapman's previous protestations that neither he nor the company had been paid via Panama. Chapman died before the full deceit unravelled, but at the subsequent trial of Lotus Group accountant Fred Bushell who had funnelled £5m to himself in the fraud, the trial judge opinionated, that had Chapman himself been in the dock, he would have received a sentence "of at least 10 years". The car's engineering concept was later sold by the UK Government appointed Administrators to Toyota, who used it to develop the AW11 MR2. The Liquidators also recovered around £20m from Swiss Bank accounts controlled by Chapman and John DeLorean"
Edited by RT on 28/01/2021 at 19:55
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Well that’s amazing RT.
Now we know where the MR 2 concept came from !
So devastated to learn about Colin Chapman. Such an amazing engineer to get embroiled with this project. He had so much going for his company without the need for this.
Formula One champions on a shoe string and a range of world beating cars.
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Mixed feelings about Chapman - yes, a visionary in terms of innovation of F1 cars, and sponsorship, come to that, but also a reputation for pushing engineering so far that his cars could be termed ‘fragile’.
The sport’s only posthumous world champion, Jochen Rindt, died at the wheel of a Lotus 72, and he’d written to Chapman expressing his concern about the mechanical integrity of Lotus cars. Other drivers had refused to drive for the team, over safety fears.
His motto of ‘Simplify, then add lightness’ meant that a perfect car in Chapman’s eyes fell apart as it crossed the finish line.
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I watched last night's DeLorean programme. It would appear that Mr DeLorean helped himself to a fair amount of the money that his company was given.
I always fancied owning a De Lorean until I found they use a Renault engine! (Wheeler Dealers bought one a while ago)
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I always fancied owning a De Lorean until I found they use a Renault engine! (Wheeler Dealers bought one a while ago)
Not a Renault engine exactly, it was a collaboration between Renault, Peugeot and Volvo. Known as either the Douvrin (where it was made) or the PRV, it is actually a good engine, versatile, with power outputs ranging from 132-402bhp. For a while (until supplies started to run dry I presume), it was the engine of choice for mid engined kit cars.
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Only experience I had with this engine was in a Volvo 760 GLE I took in part ex against a Galant. It was neither smooth nor powerful. It felt slower than the 740 GLE 2.3 where it mattered and it was worse in fuel. That the Volvo 4cyl motor would outlast it by far and it cost substantially more new killed it as far as I was concerned. It was one of the most disappointing engines I’ve ever experienced. They should’ve bought in the 2.8 Toyota straight six from the Supra assuming it would fit. Even Fords old iron block 2.8/2.9 V6 would’ve been a better bet.
Edited by SLO76 on 29/01/2021 at 14:18
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..... handling finesse wasn’t at the top of the list. It was, apparently, a staunch understeerer, and if you tried to provoke it to do anything else it would just understeer more quickly.
I find that hard to believe. The weight distribution was even more unbalanced than a Porsche 911, the early versions of which were renowned for leaving the road backwards.
It was indeed a dreadful car. If only Triumph had received the same investment - a well built TR8 - or even a TR7 with the similar powered Sprint engine - would have been a better car for far less money. £78 million for 9000 cars = over eight grand of taxpayers money for each car.
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Intriguingly, there was a plan to buy the tooling for TR7 once Solihull closed and continue production in Dunmurry alongside the DMC-12. A deal was done with BL, but it came to nought.
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Only experience I had with this engine was in a Volvo 760 GLE I took in part ex against a Galant. It was neither smooth nor powerful. It felt slower than the 740 GLE 2.3 where it mattered and it was worse in fuel. That the Volvo 4cyl motor would outlast it by far and it cost substantially more new killed it as far as I was concerned. It was one of the most disappointing engines I’ve ever experienced. They should’ve bought in the 2.8 Toyota straight six from the Supra assuming it would fit. Even Fords old iron block 2.8/2.9 V6 would’ve been a better bet.
I've had 4 experiences with the engine, all of which were positive.
First was when I was in my teens as a passenger in an early Renault 25 V6 Turbo which was awesome!. Granted I hadn't had much experiences in fast cars, but it just seemed sooo fast, and refined!.
Second was when I nearly bought a Renault 30TX (2.7i). Took it for a test drive and was hugely impressed by the grunt, and the growl from the exhaust. Sadly the insurance quote (I was 19) knocked the deal on the head.
Third was taking a Renault Espace 3.0 V6 from Dundee to Aberdeen. Wasn't particularly fast, but sooo comfy and refined!.
Last was a Renault Alpine A610 (3.0 turbo). Only took it from Wigan to Warrington, but was mightily impressed by its in gear shove and, weirdly, its comfort.
Also, Volvo didn't just 'buy' the engine to fit it in their luxury models, they joined forces with Peugeot and Renault in 1971 to develop the engine, the project was a collaboration between the there companies.
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Only experience I had with this engine was in a Volvo 760 GLE I took in part ex against a Galant. It was neither smooth nor powerful........ It was one of the most disappointing engines I’ve ever experienced.
I've had 4 experiences with the engine, all of which were positive.
First was when I was in my teens as a passenger in an early Renault 25 V6 Turbo......
The underpowered DeLorean had no turbo. By the time they experimented with turbocharging it was too late.
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I guess that is why it is called the PRV v6!
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The underpowered DeLorean had no turbo. By the time they experimented with turbocharging it was too late.
Not sure that is the case John, I think there was more to it than just the timescale. The DeLorean lasted till '83, the 25 turbo was launched the following year, so it is very likely the turbo was being evaluated and developed while the DeLorean was still available. Bit even so, the version of the V6 fitted to the DeLorean had a particularly low power output of 132bhp. The version in the Volvo SLO was so unimpressed by had around 156bhp (the Volvo 760 was launched in the UK in '82), and the injected version of the 2.7 I drove in the 30 had 144bhp ('78). So I wonder if the unit in the DMC12 was 'detuned' to meet stateside smog regulations?.
But I remember reading an article in a magazine a few years ago about the DeLorean. In the states, naturally, as it was by far the biggest market, a whole cottage industry has built up around making the DeLorean the car it could have been. With suspension modifications to drastically improve the handling (I seem to recall this included dropping the front by a couple of inches, which apparently makes a huge difference), and tuning mods to give the engine some much needed extra power, which can extend to fitting a turbo for 250+bhp.
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‘So I wonder if the unit in the DMC12 was 'detuned' to meet stateside smog regulations?’
Exactly this. The original plan had been to use a rotary engine, developed a joint project between Citroen and NSU, mid-mounted,
Edited by mcb100 on 30/01/2021 at 09:21
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The DeLorean was good-looking in its day - one could even imagine its how Volvo might have styled a coupe if they'd been in that sector in the 1970's.
As others have said, hanging the engine right at the back of the car was never going to help in the handling department.
Also the stainless steel finish looks dull to start with and becomes duller with time, although the bodies should never rust. Quite a few owners have painted their DeLoreans and that makes the cars look much nicer.
bringatrailer.com/listing/1982-delorean-dmc-12-9/
Edited by Sofa Spud on 30/01/2021 at 14:50
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