As well as depreciation, a main issue in whether to go bangernomics or new/newish is how handy you are with a spanner. If you have to go to a garage every time something goes wrong, bangernomics makes less sense.
I do wonder what effect the increased use of electronics in cars is going to have on this. Even a straightforward car like the aforementioned i10 has some complex electronics under the bonnet.
But I'd agree that the i10 (or a Kia Picanto) makes a good new/newish buy. My elder daughter had two in succession with no problems at all. She has a Fabia now, partly for the bigger boot and partly as it's £60 a month less than an i10. Worth looking at these new as well as nearly-new, as a new model is not far off.
My experiences - of Japanese electronics - is that simple eg ABS - faults can be easily diagnosed with a multimeter.
German electronics are a different issue - I would not touch an old premium German car/ (We had a series of Bosch washing machines: they only lasted 5-6 years before a cringeingly expensive repair - eg drum - made a new one cheaper! Our Samsung one has so far lasted 7 years)
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I have been behind 110/Picantos on twisty roads and been very surprised at how quick they can be. It shows it’s not all about 0-60 when it comes to “making progress”.
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I have been behind 110/Picantos on twisty roads and been very surprised at how quick they can be. It shows it’s not all about 0-60 when it comes to “making progress”.
I think that is as much about being aware of your vehicle's capabilities as anything else. Where I live, often 'main' roads are twisty roads, so most of my driving is done on roads such as this. Experience suggests that at least 50% of folk driving sporty/powerful cars seem to hopelessly underestimate the speed which can be carried into and around corners. The reason I use the term vehicle is because I have experienced this while driving buses!. I'd be driving a bus (this could even be a double decker), running late (as usual, so flat out!), get to a series of bends and the BMW which was hard up behind me had dropped back by the time we'd gone through them.
But as for the Picanto and i10, yes, very competent wee cars. My mother in law bought a new i10 auto in 2018 and she loves it.
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<< I'd be driving a bus (this could even be a double decker), running late (as usual, so flat out!), get to a series of bends and the BMW which was hard up behind me had dropped back by the time we'd gone through them. >>
Maybe that was because he/she'd realised there was no way past you through those bends ... :-)
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Of course life has a habit of never being quite this simple. But, my theory has always been to only buy cars that I can really easily afford, with cash savings.
So many people overstretch themselves when buying cars, presumably mainly for their garden ornament value.
Whenever I'm thinking of buying a car, I'll decide how much I can afford and then pretty much half that budget. Of course there will be a law of diminishing returns on this but, I like to know that the things sitting on the drive don't represent a major financial burden. While there are good arguments, particularly while interest rates are low, for financing the purchase, I'm always more comfortable in buying for cash on items that will depreciate.
My dad gave me a piece of advice when I first started work. He suggested to me that no matter how much or how little I earned in a month, that I should put 10-15% of it straight into a separate savings account. No matter how tough life was.
I've always followed that rule and he was right. When a substantial purchase is required, there has always been enough there to cover it, even in the hardest of years.
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My dad gave me a piece of advice when I first started work. He suggested to me that no matter how much or how little I earned in a month, that I should put 10-15% of it straight into a separate savings account. No matter how tough life was. I've always followed that rule and he was right.
My father was born before WW1, and I just before WW2, so we both survived some hard times. Father also took 18 months recovering from spinal damage in his early 30s. The only things either of us borrowed for was houses. We were lucky to earn enough to do that without much hardship, but it's a satisfying way to run one's life.
One balancing factor is that our purchases were made to last longer - we set our habits before the disposable society became the norm. Things which could be fixed were - often by us - and still are, to an extent.
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Good advice from the senior Alby (one of the Edinburgh Saxe-Coburgs?). I tried and failed to follow it, but at least I was in a pension scheme for all my working life - and how glad I am that I did. That advice I did manage to pass on successfully to the children.
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When I look back at my parents advice I can now seen how inappropriate it was as things have turned out.
They hated credit and even wondered how they would ever repay their mortgage over their life span. The house cost £2750.
So I followed their rules and bought a modest house whereas friends gambled everything on nice houses and larger mortgages.
Their gambles paid off and are now sitting on a nice profit as house prices rocketed.
The i 10 is a great car and the auto so smooth. Has the larger engine got four cylinders ?
A relative in her 80 s had one new and it kept draining the battery . But the main dealer took one look at her and insisted she was leaving the door open. Eventually took it back myself and they checked with HQ and yes there was a wiring fault on some of them behind the dashboard which drained the battery.
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Their gambles paid off and are now sitting on a nice profit as house prices rocketed.
I don't think those were deliberate gambles, they just frittered, but found they could easily pay off those mortgages because of high inflation (and so could you). Which they may have helped to create, I suppose ....
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My dad gave me a piece of advice when I first started work. He suggested to me that no matter how much or how little I earned in a month, that I should put 10-15% of it straight into a separate savings account. No matter how tough life was. I've always followed that rule and he was right.
My dad did that.......and inflation during the 70s wiped out much of his cash savings. Long term, much better to put the 10-15% into investments, so easy to manage now with on line platforms. For many years I have regarded financial advice in the same light as garage servicing - much better to do it yourself, holding blue chip shares individually and investment trust shares for riskier stuff like small companies, tech, biochem and far east, reinvesting all dividends yourself during downturns. If you are fortunate enough to have accumulated a reasonably sized portfolio the last thing you want is up to 2% creamed off each year by some cruise-hopping metropolitan 'wealth manager' who puts it in 'funds' which often buy other 'funds'......resulting in even more hidden admin creaming.
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There was a certain inevitability that you would know a better way John...
;-)
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There was a certain inevitability that you would know a better way John... ;-)
John's right on that - the only money we have in conventional savings accounts is our emergency fund - that's only paying 0.5% so only the minimum there - the rest is invested in 10 unit trusts held in a Stocks & Shares ISA with dividend reinvested.
We had our ups and downs, I was made redundant 4 times but survived those as we have only ever spent frugally and then either paid the mortgage down or saved during the good times.
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Well, without getting into a whole other discussion, for the sake of clarity, and the avoidance of argument, I was referring to just having a rainy day fund ( in addition to other investments. )
Sometimes it feels like walking on eggshells here !
;-)
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Well, without getting into a whole other discussion, for the sake of clarity, and the avoidance of argument, I was referring to just having a rainy day fund ( in addition to other investments. ) Sometimes it feels like walking on eggshells here ! ;-)
Just the normal thread drift which happens on every forum - I do agree that "rainy day" money should be in Easy Access savings accounts, despite the fact that they're paying virtually nothing at the moment.
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..... I was referring to just having a rainy day fund ( in addition to other investments. ) Sometimes it feels like walking on eggshells here ! ;-)
Just the normal thread drift which happens on every forum - I do agree that "rainy day" money should be in Easy Access savings accounts.....
.....and so do I. I'm not being combative, just trying to be helpful in imparting what's worked for me. Always open to a better way.
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But I'd agree that the i10 (or a Kia Picanto) makes a good new/newish buy.....
..if you are brave. Fun for a bit, e.g.hire car, but long term I just wouldn't feel safe in something that size, let alone comfortable.
German electronics are a different issue - I would not touch an old premium German car
Depends on the car. Since 1993 I have bought three old premium German cars (Audis - 100 2.0E, A6 2.8, A8 W12), total cost £23,400. No problems with electrics, or indeed anything very serious. Easy to service too. Biggest bills I can remember was a broken front sway bar on the Audi 100 and a front spring on the A6. But they were low mileage cars, only averaging just over 5,000 miles a year during those 28yrs. Considerably less now I'm retired, only about 3000 from now on. The current A8 is 15yrs and 71,000 miles old and seems to have plenty of life left in it yet.
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But I'd agree that the i10 (or a Kia Picanto) makes a good new/newish buy.....
..if you are brave. Fun for a bit, e.g.hire car, but long term I just wouldn't feel safe in something that size, let alone comfortable.
Hmm, I wouldn't consider myself brave for buying a car as small as my needs dictate!. Reposnsible maybe, but brave?, well if you say so John.
And I'll also give thanks to all those other souls braver than you, otherwise our town centres and urban streets would be even more congested!.
Edited by badbusdriver on 28/01/2021 at 15:31
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<< Fun for a bit, e.g.hire car, but long term I just wouldn't feel safe in something that size, let alone comfortable. >>
I've never bought into the notion of having a big car, seemingly on the grounds that if you hit a smaller one you come off better. Reminds me of my time in Canada (mid-60s) when I rather conspicuously drove a red Morris 1100 for three years. One work colleague called it a p***-p*t on those grounds. In the event of a head-on he would be right if I hit a Chev or a Caddy, but to compensate, being smaller meant I was less likely to hit things. And 40mpg was a lot cheaper than a Caddy - tho of course petrol was about as cheap as bottled water, probably cheaper.
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I've never bought into the notion of having a big car, seemingly on the grounds that if you hit a smaller one you come off better. Reminds me of my time in Canada (mid-60s) when I rather conspicuously drove a red Morris 1100 for three years. One work colleague called it a p***-p*t on those grounds. In the event of a head-on he would be right if I hit a Chev or a Caddy, but to compensate, being smaller meant I was less likely to hit things.
Couldn't agree more Andrew. As well as a much better chance of avoiding an accident in the first place, the simple fact is that a poorly designed big car isn't necessarily going to offer any more protection than a well designed small car. The age of the car also makes a huge difference as can be seen by looking up on YouTube the Fifth Gear clip where a Renault Modus was crashed into Volvo 940 estate. The occupants of the little Modus would have faired considerably better despite the Volvo's huge size 'advantage'. Also apparent from the footage is that the Modus appeared to almost 'bounce off' the Volvo.
Something else occurred to me which makes John's statement all the more inexplicable. I believe his 'regular' steed is a Peugeot 2008, which is essentially a 208 with a slightly higher ride height and an estate body. So the crash protection at the front and sides is 'as per the 208'. The 208 (going by its footprint) is approx 12% bigger than an i10, so I'm wondering just how much more protection he feels his 2008 offers over the Hyundai.
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Something else occurred to me which makes John's statement all the more inexplicable. I believe his 'regular' steed is a Peugeot 2008, which is essentially a 208 with a slightly higher ride height and an estate body. So the crash protection at the front and sides is 'as per the 208'.
The 2008 officially belongs to MrsF, but we do use it as a convenient runabout, especially as it has to live outside.
The 208 (going by its footprint) is approx 12% bigger than an i10, so I'm wondering just how much more protection he feels his 2008 offers over the Hyundai.
Depending upon who's driving ( ;-) about 12%.
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Weight depending on model variant -
- 2008 is given as 1188-1548kg (average 1268kg)
- i10 at 921-1024kg (average 973kg)
Thus the Peugeot is ~28% heavier. Cars are 3 dimensional, so it's not just the footprint!
Crash testing is an absolute measure of occupant safety in collisions at a given speed The standard met by a vehicle is a function of its design, not weight.
It's worth bearing in mind that a heavier car in a collision likely has a larger passenger compartment with greater potential for deformation than a small one. In many collisions a smaller car is more likely to be deflected reducing shock loads on occupants.
I suspect the principal determinants of vehicle safety are driver ability, excess speeds and the age of the vehicle.
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Body weight and strength are not comparable. Modern high tensile steel introduced in the 21st century means body shells are stronger and lighter (ditto suspension components).
Any car designed before 2010 (roughly) is not going to have the same strength of bodyshell as the same weight car made of high tensille steel.. And CAD designs have become more efficient..
Any 15 year old car is also likely to have hidden corrosion of welds and internal sills. This will inevitably compromise body strength and crash resistance.
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Any 15 year old car is also likely to have hidden corrosion of welds and internal sills. This will inevitably compromise body strength and crash resistance.
Not if it's made of an aluminium spaceframe (as opposed to bits and pieces of aluminium held together by steel rivets and glue). My 15yr old A8 is probably as strong as when it left the factory.
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In that connection, it might be worth noting that the new-shape Hyundai i10 gets only a 3-star rating from Euro NCAP. The previous model (the one SLO is talking about) got 4 stars. The tests have no doubt got more stringent since that model came out in about 2014.
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