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If you provide some actually useful info regarding your needs and criteria, you may get some input. As it is, we don't know how much you want to spend, how many miles you cover, the type of journeys being done, the amount of space required (d you actually need a 7 seater?). Without this, it is difficult to make any meaningful comments.
Going back to your first point about buying a car and running it till it dies, this suggests reliability is the most important point. With that info, and assuming you actually need a 7 seater, the obvious choices would be the Toyota Verso or Mazda 5, both with petrol engines.
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Ok . I'll try.
Low general running costs would be nice which is why lean towards a diesel.
Average miles per year .
Reliability is important so my wife feels comfortable with the car and the young kids in the car , which she has lost recently with the picasso.
Journeys Monday to Friday are short town driving mostly with longer out and about journeys at weekends ,higher speeds for longer , how this affects a dpf etc.
7 seats is a bonus on the rare occasion we need it but more importantly is the space , for luggage and stuff as well as room for the kids to get changed in after a visit to the beach etc in to clean dry clothes .
I hope this helps. I will also look at your suggestions.
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If you're looking at a car 5 to 7 years old, a diesel won't have lower running costs unless you're very lucky: expensive repairs will cancel out the advantage of better mpg.
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Thanks for the reply , would it be possible for quick what's what as to the reason a diesel would be more expensive than a petrol ,it's something I can't get my head around . In my experience of the two I've preferred the diesel in its characteristics as well as the running costs.
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Thanks for the reply , would it be possible for quick what's what as to the reason a diesel would be more expensive than a petrol ,it's something I can't get my head around . In my experience of the two I've preferred the diesel in its characteristics as well as the running costs.
The diesel uses a Fiat designed motor with a reputation for costly failures as it ages. I’d stick with a 1.4 turbo petrol instead which is largely vice free and removes the worry of DPF issues. It’s reasonable on fuel has enough power and will be more reliable in the longterm. Ask anyone who’s tried to taxi a Fiat engined Vauxhall Insignia or Zafira if you can find one and you’ll usually hear a long tale of woe. Thus the reason the taxi trade are largely avoiding Vauxhall these days. Don’t get it mixed up with the tough as boots old Isuzu 1700 diesels.
Edited by SLO76 on 25/08/2019 at 10:32
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Ok thanks for that. Is the fiat engine really that bad. And is that both 1.6 and 2 litre engines
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Ive just googled "who makes the diesel engine for the zafira tourer" not much info cones back as to who makes it. , Where can I find out more info
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There is a mixed reputation regarding the diesel options in the Zafira Touter.
To get more details about the 2.0 diesel, check out Vauxhall’s insignia 2.0 diesel information - it’s the exact same engine and gear box set up. The consensus is the engine is fine upto 80,000/4 years until they begin to suffer various failures (the Vauxhall’s owners forum is a good place for more detail).
The 1.6 diesel seems to be more mixed; some have problems earlier (60,000 miles) while others are problem free into 6 figures - might be down to use? The clutch seems to have a common issue; if your buying a 14 plate it’s probably been replaced although difficult to check if you have had the fixed clutch plate and cylinder and not a mere like for like replacement (Took Vauxhall/GM a while to resolve despite being widespread)
In term of petrols, the 1.4 turbo petrol is a nice drive, plenty of power. There was an issue with this engine upto 2012 but Vauxhall made some changes and problems reduced with this engine from cars built in 2012 onwards.
The benefit of the 1.4 over the diesels is 3 fold.
1. Reliability - far less to go wrong
2. Value retention - if you do sell it, the petrol model will hold more of its value and be easier to sell on
3. Drive - I found the petrol was a nicer driver than the diesel around town.
There are other common reliability issues with the Zafira tourer as with most Vauxhall’s of this era; your classic General Motors component and design issues.
Edited by daveyK_UK on 26/08/2019 at 05:27
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Thanks for the help. Having had some questions answered here and seen a few mixed used car reviews it seems really 50 / 50 with regards to reliability so although not completely ruled out I've started to look at other options as well trying to keep an open mind but my gut is not so comfortable with the zafira . So I'll keep looking.
One reason I considered the zaf was I had a model a at one point and although I was never a fan of the car I must admit I was quite reliable then moved to a petrol picasso with less guts about it and lower mpg hence the idea of going back to a diesel zaf with better mpg but not sure now. But I'll keep looking .
Any more help and ideas would still be greatly appreciated
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Any more help and ideas would still be greatly appreciated
That's grand, but you still haven't given a budget which we need to make alternative suggestions.
Edited by badbusdriver on 26/08/2019 at 10:48
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As little as possible but 6 to 9
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With the "as little as possible" sounding like you'd rather nearer £6k, i'd still go with my original 2 suggestions, the Toyota Verso or Mazda 5 with petrol engines. Yes, a diesel will give you better mpg, but due to the complexity of diesel engines, they are more expensive to maintain, they will require more mainenace, and if anything goes wrong it will cost a fortune to fix wiping out (and then some) any savings in fuel costs. The petrol engines of the 2 i mention are very reliable, but they are also simple mechanically, so going to cost less in the unlikely event of anything going wrong.
If it has to be diesel, i'd be looking to spend as much of that potential budget as possible on a Kia Carens with full Kia dealer history. Your £9k upper limit could get you into a car as young as 2016 (with higher than average miles), which would have 4 years warranty remaining. It is important though that the service history is all Kia dealer, as while on paper, you can legally service the car outside the dealer network without invalidating the warranty, in practice, they will find a way to worm out of those obligations. Buying an approved used car would be safest here, but as long as it has full Kia dealer service history, you should be fine.
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Thanks for those suggestions , I'll look into them a little more. I still struggle with the concept of the diesels costing more ,it's just something I can't get my head around.. the two diesels I've had in the past ran fine till the car became financially stupid to keep pumping money into. I suppose that maybe down to the fact they where older ( less complicated ) engines compared to today's engines and as such I've not experienced the problems new diesels can have. I had been looking forward to the fuel economy and the savings in theory that would being every year.
I will look into the above cars but another car that's cropped up is the ford grand cmax ,it seems to get decent used reviews.
As for price £6k would always be the better option but £9k is fine for the right car.
I suppose I just need more research time to look around. Also where on earth do you find info on who makes what engine. I've googled but to avail at least on the first few Google pages.
Again thanks for all the help
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While the Carens makes financial sense, the 1.6 petrol is gutless and not nice to drive, it will soon frustrate you. The diesel is better but still not a nice to drive as the Zafira Tourer.
The beauty of the Zafira Tourer is due to there wide availability you can afford to be fussy and find a good one that’s been looked after.
Again it’s a GM car so expect problems but value for money wise it’s one of the best on the market.
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Just the concept of its a GM car so expect problems is making it a difficult choice.
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While the Carens makes financial sense, the 1.6 petrol is gutless and not nice to drive, it will soon frustrate you. The diesel is better but still not a nice to drive as the Zafira Tourer. The beauty of the Zafira Tourer is due to there wide availability you can afford to be fussy and find a good one that’s been looked after. Again it’s a GM car so expect problems but value for money wise it’s one of the best on the market.
I didn't suggest the petrol Carens. And while the diesel Zafira Tourer may well be nicer to drive, the fact that the OP keeps his cars till they die, means that (IMO anyway), the reliablity aspect should come first and foremost. And yes, the diesel Zafira Tourer is also faster and more powerful than the diesel Carens, but it isn't going to be a noticeable margin unless you are flat out all the time and certainly wouldn't feel underpowered (the 165bhp Zaf makes 258lb/ft of torque @1750rpm, the 134bhp Carens makes 243lb/ft @1750rpm).
The Toyota Verso is a different kettle of fish though, as while you did get them with the 1.8 engine, they will be a bit older, the youngest ones hitting the bottom of the OP's budget range will be 1.6. And with 118lb/ft of torque @ 4400rpm that probably would be hard work.
So with that in mind, out of (my) 2 petrol suggestions, i'd probably be inclined towards the Mazda 5 2.0.
If sticking with petrol, there is also the possibility of a VW Touran with the 1.4TSI engine, which, in theory, would be the best of both worlds. But in practice, there are very few about, and most are >2011. I don't know the date that they changed this engine from chain to belt, but i do know that the chain drive models had a reputation, so i'd be looking carefully to ensure any potential candidate was belt drive.
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Still looking round using autotrader and ricability web sites to check various specs and it would look like the Mazda and Kia have smaller boots than my current picasso which is not the way I want to go , although I do take what they say with a pinch of salt until I get the chance to see them in the flesh myself. But they may still be worth a look at when I get a chance .
They are also in the same price bracket as a grand cmax with its bigger boot..
Again all these suggestions and help is food for thought.
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Noticed recently that dealers are increasingly body-swerving Auto trader so car searching has become a bit more difficult. I’m assuming it’s cost cutting or AT have pushed price rises on them. I think at your top money the final gen 1.4 turbo Zafira is the best MPV. It’s hugely practical, well made, comfortable and outstanding value. Go try one for size, I’m sure it’ll be well liked. Just watch out for poor paint repairs on cars returned from PCP and lease contracts. It’s seems good cars are quite rare.
www.arnoldclark.com/used-cars/vauxhall/zafira/1-4t...4
Edited by SLO76 on 26/08/2019 at 20:48
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I may be able to add something to this. I have run diesel cars now for 9 years and had absolutely no serious trouble with any of them.
2007 Corsa D 1.3 Cdti.(95hp) b***** awful to drive, returned about 49mpg but nothing went wrong other than a set of glowplugs which were replaced under warranty. Bought at 4 years old with 38k on the clock and sold 3 years later with 100k.
2013 Seat Toledo 1.6 Tdi SE. Bought with 5k on the clock and sold with 95k on the clock 4 years later. Absolutely no issues wth this car what so ever despite it being the Diesel engine of doom. Most economical engine I've ever had. Late 50's all day long
2017 Zafira 2.0 CDTI Sri 168hp. This was bought as the family transport. It tows a caravan with a maximum weight of 1415kg, it takes the bikes on the back, two kids and goes all over Europe. We have only had it for 16 months but findings as follows.
Reliability issues - NiL. Economy - mid 40's which for a heavy car isn't the end of the world. Practicality - brilliant, it's the best car I've ever had that I didn't want!. the only fly in the ointment was that I had to have new disks and pads on the front at 28k, I have never gone through brakes that quickly and Mindful of the fact that only about 3k of that mileage was with the caravan (largely on motorways) I was dissapointed with that.
Volvo V40 2.0 D2 R- Design 2017/67. Again I've only run this for 6 months but as yet mid 50's economy with an autobox, supreme comfort and no issues.
In addition to these we have had an A4 plus a Q3 2.0 Tdi. Neither of these caused us any problems but both were bought from new and returned by their 3rd birthday so perhaps not the best test.
Most of my driving is a 42 mile trip to work and I do over service my cars, that is oil and filter every 10k and they don't get thrashed.
I guess what I am trying to say is that my experience with diesel is that if you use it the right way, look after them and choose carefully when buying second hand there just no reason to think that it will cost you a fortune.
However if reliability is the ultimate concern and your mileage isn't huge then I can see the logic in buying a small capacity turbo charged petrol, or even better as SLO76 advocates a Proven motor with an unstressed and proven engine.
Good luck with whatever you choose!.
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Thanks for all the help.
My mileage is between 9 - 11 k a year , so serviced every year
Looking at autotrader for specs like boot size in litres etc as well as tax and real mpg on honest John a zafira diesel would be about £250 cheaper a year than the 1.4 and in my experience ( with older diesels ) I struggle to see what would cost the equivalent of £250 on a diesel a year on average . How ever I do keep hearing about this more expensive thing from different sources which makes me think there's no smoke without fire. But still a struggle.
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It’s your call but modern diesels are vastly more complex than diesels of old and prone to far more in the way of costly failures. It’s all mostly related to the emissions control equipment and Fiat do not have a great reputation for longevity. The 1.6 and 2.0 Fiat motors tend to fall off a cliff reliability wise around 70-80,000 miles but you could see costly pain much earlier.
The 2.0 diesel Insignia in a recent article on a test car in car mechanics magazine is the first car and engine I’ve seen them openly advise people not to buy, their own example suffering engine failure shortly after purchase and the never-ending and massively costly repairs amounted to vastly more than treble the cars worth as they tried to get it going again purely in the name of motoring journalism.
I wouldn’t touch a Fiat diesel whether it be in a Fiat itself or a Vauxhall and again don’t get it mixed up with the tough but noisy old GM 2.0 DTi in the first Zafira . It will almost certainly not be reliable in the longterm.
It is of course your money and your choice. I have voiced my opinion based on two decades of selling cars and from knowing plenty of people in the trade who repair these things and many among the local taxi trade who’ve no good experiences from these engines, so much so that no one locally uses them at all to taxi any longer.
You may we’ll get lucky, many do but the odds are very much not in favour and I fear a small £250 a year fuel and tax saving will be swallowed up quickly. A DMF and clutch replacement for example will be £1200-£1500, a DPF £1,000 upwards, an injector £200 each and there are 4 all of which tend to fail around 70-80k.
I would go petrol and I’d spend your maximum money on a good one. Either that or a Ford C-Max 1.6 petrol which used a bulletproof Yamaha designed motor. It’s not fast but fun to drive, comfy and very reliable.
Edited by SLO76 on 26/08/2019 at 23:11
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SLO , you make an unhappy yet compelling argument.
In your opinion if zaf go 1.4 petrol.
Or petrol on cmax. But not 1.5 diesel. . still similar issues ????
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SLO , you make an unhappy yet compelling argument.
In your opinion if zaf go 1.4 petrol.
Or petrol on cmax. But not 1.5 diesel. . still similar issues ????
The 1.5 diesel is based on the older 1.6 PSA diesel which had a rather nasty reputation especially in earlier 16v form. It had a habit of eating turbochargers. However I’ve every confidence that after two major redesigns it’ll be fine if it is properly maintained by someone who understands modern diesels and it sees a regular longer distance run. In fact I almost bought a Mazda 2 with this very same motor in it only last week but was ultimately put off by some minor but poorly finished paintwork on the front bumper and O/S wing.
The 1.6 petrol has an enviable reputation for longevity though with no real vices at all other than a lack of torque. I could see the reasons for buying the 1.5 diesel here but I’d leave the earlier 1.6 as despite later versions being much improved turbo failure is still fairly common. You’ll need all of your budget to get the 1.5 however. As with all modern turbocharged cars though walk away from any that lack a full main dealer or genuine specialist service history at this money. These aren’t old cars and should’ve been properly maintained by a keeper who didn’t scrimp.
Edited by SLO76 on 27/08/2019 at 00:09
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Thanks for that .
1.5 diesel ford or 1.4 petrol zaf.????
Also what is considered a longerdistance, and I presume that's more to do with the dpf
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Thanks for that .
1.5 diesel ford or 1.4 petrol zaf.????
Also what is considered a longerdistance, and I presume that's more to do with the dpf
I’d say if you’re not doing at least one 20-30 mile run a week at 50mph or more then a DPF equipped diesel isn’t a good bet. Go and test drive both and I’d try a C-Max 1.6 petrol too. It’s the most reliable small MPV next to a Toyota Verso but nicer to own. Just don’t let any salesperson talk you into a 1.0 Ecoboost, it’s notoriously unreliable.
Edited by SLO76 on 27/08/2019 at 08:38
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We tend to do stop start town driving in the week but most weekends there's a round trip of at least 20 miles at various speed limits mostly 50 ton70
I think the cmax boot maybe to small for what we want ,hence the zaf or grand cmax etc. .
To be honest what I would like not don't have the money is a nice grand tourneo connect .
But I will continue to look around and ask questions
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What's the more reliable engine the ford 1.6 lower hp or the 147hp 1.6 ecoboost
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What's the more reliable engine the ford 1.6 lower hp or the 147hp 1.6 ecoboost
Same engine, one with a turbo and one without. No reason to fear either if they’ve been well maintained.
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What a great wealth of knowledge you have, I'm in a similar dilemma now though a couple of years on. Youve definitely put me off the diesel engine thats for sure. I like the Zafira not sure which engine size though, I feel 1.4 is a little underpowered or are they fine with turbos these days? We currently have an 07 Zafira B on its last legs but its always been a bit underpowered when I need some oomph.
I know its a few years old now but would love your expertise now the cars are a little older.
Budget is between £7-9k thanks
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I feel 1.4 is a little underpowered
The 1.4 petrol Zafira Tourer has 138bhp and 200nm of torque, just how much power do you feel you need?.
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If you can stretch your budget slightly, you may be able to get a 68 plate Vauxhall Combo Life 1.2 petrol 7 seater.
The 1.2 has plenty of poke thanks to a turbo.
Brilliant value for money, masses of space, more economical than the 1.4 in the Zafira Tourer (have rental experience of both) and cheaper to run as its based on a van and the insurance group and part costs are low.
Also likely more reliable as the Zafira Tourer is a General Motors vehicle where as the Combo Life is a re-badged Peugeot.
Edited by daveyK_UK on 24/01/2021 at 09:59
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If you can stretch your budget slightly, you may be able to get a 68 plate Vauxhall Combo Life 1.2 petrol 7 seater.
The Combo is of course a rebadged Berlingo/Partner. Dependent on the intended use/miles I would say (others will differ) that the 1.6 diesel is nothing to be frightened of provided it's been serviced on the dot.
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I feel 1.4 is a little underpowered
The 1.4 petrol Zafira Tourer has 138bhp and 200nm of torque, just how much power do you feel you need?.
The Zafira Tourer 1.4 was fine, plenty of poke, has a turbo.
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If you can stretch your budget slightly, you may be able to get a 68 plate Vauxhall Combo Life 1.2 petrol 7 seater.
The 1.2 has plenty of poke thanks to a turbo.
Brilliant value for money, masses of space, more economical than the 1.4 in the Zafira Tourer (have rental experience of both) and cheaper to run as its based on a van and the insurance group and part costs are low.
Also likely more reliable as the Zafira Tourer is a General Motors vehicle where as the Combo Life is a re-badged Peugeot.
The Zafira isn't less reliable because it is GM, doesn't work like that. Some GM cars, (such as those with the 1.4t) are pretty reliable, just as there are PSA group cars which aren't. I'm not saying the 1.2t PSA engine is more or less reliable than the 1.4t in the Zafira, but there has been a fair few threads during the 3.5ish years I have been a forum member concerning reliability issues around the PSA unit, so it certainly isn't faultless in that respect. Were we comparing a diesel Zafira to a petrol Combo Life, I'd assume the latter to be more reliable, but petrol vs petrol?, I'd say about equal.
But it is probably a moot point as the budget given is £7-9k and the cheapest 7 seat Combo Life on Autotrader is a fiver under £11k (for a 2019 LWB diesel).
£9k will get a 2017/8 Zafira Tourer 1.4t with low miles.
Edited by badbusdriver on 24/01/2021 at 13:47
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I rate the Zafira, they’re spacious and very comfortable. The petrol engines are generally robust and well proven so there’s little to fear from a well maintained example. Your budget is enough to get a good approved used car with low miles from a Vauxhall main dealer which is the way I’d go here. Main dealers hold a better range of stock and most will come with a full main dealer history and a years approved used warranty. As far as performance is concerned, well the 1.4 turbo engine s quicker than the old 1.8 VVT petrol and better on fuel too.
www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202009023224632
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@SLO76 when you refer to the older 1.6 PSA diesel, which years are you talking about? I'm just wondering as our 2014 Zafira Tourer 1.6 has just needed its turbocharger replaced. It only has 57k on the clock but if this is type of engine you are talking about, we may consider selling it rather than continuing to use it. It's been in and out of the garage with one thing or another since we bought it last year. I think one of the main problems is the majority of our journeys are short and at peak times, so often stop/start and travelling 10 or 20 mph for half the journey. Weekends we do longer trips but not always on the motorway, so only occasionally reach above 50 mph. I'm starting to feel this car isn't good for these types of trips.
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@SLO76 when you refer to the older 1.6 PSA diesel, which years are you talking about? I'm just wondering as our 2014 Zafira Tourer 1.6 has just needed its turbocharger replaced. It only has 57k on the clock but if this is type of engine you are talking about, we may consider selling it rather than continuing to use it. It's been in and out of the garage with one thing or another since we bought it last year. I think one of the main problems is the majority of our journeys are short and at peak times, so often stop/start and travelling 10 or 20 mph for half the journey. Weekends we do longer trips but not always on the motorway, so only occasionally reach above 50 mph. I'm starting to feel this car isn't good for these types of trips.
The Zafira Tourer 1.6 diesel uses a Fiat engine, not the PSA one. TBH, for your usage, pretty much any relatively modern diesel wouldn't be a great choice.
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