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So SLO76
I have an Avensis CVT hatch 2008, 1.8, with 68k miles done. No gear change problems but ATF is a uniform grey colour. I'm planning to get at least another 5 years out of it. I've been quoted £200 plus VAT for a "transmission service." This when I enquired about a fluid change.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks for all your helpful posts by the way.
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Some manufacturers also claim that the gearbox oil (and coolant) never needs changing and lasts the "life of the car".
What they fail to mention is in their eyes the "life" is classed as 100,000 miles or ten years.
Edited by Gibbo_Wirral on 04/06/2019 at 13:46
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Preventative maintenance is never a bad thing. If you want to get many more years out of the car have it done.
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Preventative maintenance is never a bad thing. If you want to get many more years out of the car have it done.
Excellent advice. The trouble is, greasing the brake pipes and attending to the first signs of corrosion are rarely included in a garage's so-called 'service'. They tend to concentrate on unnecessary but remunerative things like changing brake fluid, coolant, and brake pads and discs well before they need to be changed. In the worst cases they can even scrap a car if they botch a cambelt change.
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Some manufacturers also claim that the gearbox oil (and coolant) never needs changing and lasts the "life of the car".
What they fail to mention is in their eyes the "life" is classed as 100,000 miles or ten years.
Where do you get that idea from? Does oil get less oily and coolant less cool? No doubt you have read some cod science about oil being 'contaminated' or the corrosion inhibitor losing effect. However, corrosion needs the oxygen contained in the coolant. When it is used up, no more corrosion can occur. By changing the coolant in a sealed system you will introduce more oxygen. The 18yr old coolant in our Focus is original, pink and clear. Its 'sealed for life' autobox oil is also original at 139,000. My TR7 is nearly 40 yrs old and the only time fresh coolant has been added was when a stone pierced the radiator in 1986 and when I replaced the leaky water pump in 2002. The oils in the gearbox and differential are original. Everything works fine and it has never been off the road. Some weaker gear boxes, especially those autos with lots of chainy bits, do need oil changes as they mash up the molecules more, so try to choose strong ones that don't, e.g. Aisin or ZF. Garages anxious for your custom will no doubt advise otherwise.
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Some manufacturers also claim that the gearbox oil (and coolant) never needs changing and lasts the "life of the car".
What they fail to mention is in their eyes the "life" is classed as 100,000 miles or ten years.
Where do you get that idea from? Does oil get less oily and coolant less cool? No doubt you have read some cod science about oil being 'contaminated' or the corrosion inhibitor losing effect. However, corrosion needs the oxygen contained in the coolant. When it is used up, no more corrosion can occur. By changing the coolant in a sealed system you will introduce more oxygen. The 18yr old coolant in our Focus is original, pink and clear. Its 'sealed for life' autobox oil is also original at 139,000. My TR7 is nearly 40 yrs old and the only time fresh coolant has been added was when a stone pierced the radiator in 1986 and when I replaced the leaky water pump in 2002. The oils in the gearbox and differential are original. Everything works fine and it has never been off the road. Some weaker gear boxes, especially those autos with lots of chainy bits, do need oil changes as they mash up the molecules more, so try to choose strong ones that don't, e.g. Aisin or ZF. Garages anxious for your custom will no doubt advise otherwise.
Well, yeh. Gearboxes are pretty tough generally, as is oil, but oil does shear, diffs and gearboxes do have vents which give access to atmospheric oxygen, and gearboxes do get bits of wear metal in them.
If the wear metal is steel it'll be pretty hard, and beget more wear metal.
Whether these effects are important enough to justify an oil change in a non-investment vehicle is economically dubious,
My experience suggests it probably isn't, but its hard to price the feel-good factor.
AFAIK few gearboxes(apart from shared-sump systems like the BMC Mini) have magnets fitted, which you'd think they should have if the manufacturer cared.
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<< Where do you get that idea from? Does oil get less oily and coolant less cool? No doubt you have read some cod science about oil being 'contaminated' or the corrosion inhibitor losing effect. However, corrosion needs the oxygen contained in the coolant. When it is used up, no more corrosion can occur. By changing the coolant in a sealed system you will introduce more oxygen >>
I would expect a decent saturated-hydrocarbon lubricant to last for years provided it didn't accumulate any acidic impurity. However I wouldn't expect the antifreeze in the coolant to last indefinitely in the heating-cooling-pumping cycles it has to tolerate.
Having said that, 21st-century motors seem to have cracked the problem. My 2008 Pug diesel still has its original blue coolant, even after a cambelt and pump change (I am assuming the colour is intended to change to indicate deterioration). One essential ingredient is deionised water.
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So SLO76
I have an Avensis CVT hatch 2008, 1.8, with 68k miles done. No gear change problems but ATF is a uniform grey colour. I'm planning to get at least another 5 years out of it. I've been quoted £200 plus VAT for a "transmission service." This when I enquired about a fluid change.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks for all your helpful posts by the way.
I’ve no idea what the schedule is but a quick call to the local main dealer will tell you. Either way I’d have it done if you intend on keeping the car. These are very robust old cars but next to worthless so keeping it til it explodes is the best bet. Makes a brilliant used buy this gen of Avensis.
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So SLO76
I have an Avensis CVT hatch 2008, 1.8, with 68k miles done. No gear change problems but ATF is a uniform grey colour. I'm planning to get at least another 5 years out of it. I've been quoted £200 plus VAT for a "transmission service." This when I enquired about a fluid change.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks for all your helpful posts by the way.
Be worth finding out exactly what they do.
As I understand it (no experience, just going by what Americans say) many auto boxes aren't designed for easy and complete draining, (requires some disassembly) but its relatively easy to do a partial drain and fill, so doing that more frequently is an option.
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I changed the manual gearbox oil on my car at 12-years old & 91k. What came out was the same colour as the water in my pond! Previously notchy gear change massively improved, a welcome outcome from spending a mere £15 on 2L of synthetic GL4 spec oil. Further improvements to the new found slickness were also made by lubricating the gear lever linkage. When I used to have my car serviced by an independent garage they always used to prevaricate when asked if this job was worth doing!
Edited by Chrome on 05/06/2019 at 22:10
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Change all transmission oils in all of our cars when i buy them (used cars obviously), always notice smoother gearchanges whether auto or manual, costs of all the oils on our AWD cars are a fraction of the costs of one single failure of a gearbox/axle/transfer box.
Sealed for life is a load of cobblers, no such thing, almost all the makers who signed up to that rubbish have quietly abandoned the concept.
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Sealed for life is a load of cobblers, no such thing, almost all the makers who signed up to that rubbish have quietly abandoned the concept.
Not so, gb. Here is an extract from the ZF company dated April 2018
5-, 6-, 8- and 9-speed as well as 4HP20 automatic transmissions: ZF 5-, 6-, 8- and 9-speed as well as the ZF 4HP20 automatic transmissions are filled maintenance-free with specially developed partially synthetic ATF oils. Maintenance-free fills are intended for normal operating conditions. Especially driving at very high operating temperatures can result in accelerated aging or increased wear of ATF oils. In case of above-average operating conditions, such as: - frequent freeway driving in the upper speed range - offensive, sporty driving style - frequent trailer operation it is recommended to refresh (change) the oil of the automatic transmission every 100,000 km or no later than after 8 years.
For normal careful driving one would be foolish to ignore this advice and change the fluid in these boxes, even if done by an experienced ZF mechanic using the correct fluid. Even then you run the risk of disturbed particles on the filter finding their way into the works. I have never ever changed gearbox oil, and never had a problem, but then I don't do desert high speed driving towing a horsebox. And in Germany, the 'freeway upper speed range' means around the 200kph mark - or higher. Most are limited to 250kph.
Edited by John F on 07/06/2019 at 09:55
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Remind me John how long the maker warrants their product? and how keen they are to offer goodwill should their products fail outside of warranty.
Even Toyota went down this never need to change the gearbox oil rubbish on the 5 speed auto on Landcruisers, filling them with WS (world standard) fully synthetic oil which is Dexron 6, however taking a sample of the oil was always recommended on dealer servicing and from what i've read they have now gone back to their previous sensible advice of changing the oil, remember LC's are expected to last 30 years or more without a gearbox change...100k kms springs to mind but i could be wrong on the mileage.
There is probably good sense in not changing the oil if its sat in there doing its worst for years, all sorts of evil stuff could be trapped in the nooks and it would do no good at all releasing it when the new oil searched it out.
I don't understand the reluctance to change gear oils, look it cost around £60 for a 20 litre drum of Dexron 6, that changed the oil in my LC gearbox which will now probably see another 14 years of trouble free operation, a new gearbox would probably be around £3500 plus fitting, there is no choice in the matter.
OK i'm in the fortunate position of being able to service my own vehicles, and i would not buy a car that i couldn't at least maintain myself, if a main dealer was trying to fleece me out of £300/500 to change £60 worth of oil, because the car was designed to me impossible for the home mechanic to maintain, then maybe i too would feel different.
Edited by gordonbennet on 07/06/2019 at 10:34
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I changed the manual gearbox oil on my car at 12-years old & 91k. What came out was the same colour as the water in my pond! Previously notchy gear change massively improved,
Indeed - although how the oil fares seems to vary between different designs of engines/gearboxes. I remember draining the gearbox oil on my dads Cortina MK II 1.3 whilst changing the clutch and the oil looked perfect - however on that car when in top gear the input shaft was connected to the output shaft (via synchromesh!) not passing power through any lay shafts (although they would be spinning). As you spent most of the time in top gear I'm guessing it didn't stress the oil as much!
Did a similar thing on a 5 speed Volvo box and yes - I suppose pond water springs to mind.
It's not expensive so I er on the safe side.
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