Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not)

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Mon 22 Oct 2018 15:29
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - Bilboman

Handbrakes seem to be going the way of oil lamps - will any cars still have them in 5 years' time? Most likely not, with all the brake buttons and "auto hold" features creeping in everywhere.
Thinking back to a few cars in our family, there have been some weird examples over the years. Maybe these need to go in a "Handbrake museum" if anything so geeky were ever created....
"Next to the door for some reason": Rootes saloons and a few others;
"Umbrella handle, under the dashboard" (2CV; BMC 1800)
"Spade-handle - 'yank and twist' " (Citroën GS, Mercedes W126)
"Belongs in a plane cockpit" (Mk.1 Megane, Zafira; Peugeot 2008)
"Prize for the worst design ever" (Toyota Avensis - the only PRESS button brake in the world, and it's mounted almost completely out of sight.
"Nearly killed myself doing that donut in the carpark; why did no one tell me it operates the FRONT brakes?" (2CV; Alfasud; Saab 900)

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Mon 22 Oct 2018 16:05
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - RT

Plus "foot-operated parking-brake" (some Hyundai and Mercedes-Benz models.

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Tue 23 Oct 2018 09:28
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - barney100

I liked the foot operated hand brake on the Mercs.

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Mon 22 Oct 2018 16:21
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - TheGentlemanThug

I remember the "plane cockpit" handbrake from an S-Max that an old manager had. Just be sure not to mistake it for an accelerator!

Gotta say, I'm not a fan of modern handbrakes. Press a button, walk away and cross your fingers that your car will be where you left it. The mechanical click of the "old" handbrake is far more reassuring.

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Mon 22 Oct 2018 16:34
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - SLO76
A solution to a problem that never existed. I’ve been running an Avensis with one for a few weeks and I’m still not seeing any benefit from it. It’s just added complication and more to go wrong.
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Mon 22 Oct 2018 17:16
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - gordonbennet

Not something i'll ever miss because i have no intention of everowning a vehicle without a proper parking brake, don't care if its operated by hand or foot or a combination of both as in old Mercs.

Don't forget the propshaft brake as Landrover persisted with for ever, and the first artic (Foden) i ever drove after passing test had a hand lever operated brake drum mounted on the back of the diff, so a diff brake, that was about as useless as Landrovers effort but fortunately it had a air operated 'dead man' secondary braking system.

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Mon 22 Oct 2018 17:30
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - skidpan

A solution to a problem that never existed. I’ve been running an Avensis with one for a few weeks and I’m still not seeing any benefit from it. It’s just added complication and more to go wrong.

Drove an Avensis back in 2010 and whilst we did not rate it very highly overall the electric handbrake was without a doubt the feature that made us walk. Wrong place for starters.

So when we test drove the Superb with the electric handbrake I was expecting more of the same but how wrong could I be. Its brilliant. The "levers" are in the same place as the handbrake for starters. Should you wish to operate it "manually" you simply pull up the lever to engage it and press it down to disengage it. If you wish you can pull away without touching it and it dsengages automatically.

But we use it in auto mode. Stop and the handbrake is operated using the vehicle hydraulics. Open the door or turn off the engine and its operated mechanically. Drive off and it releases automatically. No need to touch the buttons at all.

Absolutely brilliant.

The wife is no fan of unnessesary kit but when we had had the Fabia for a few weeks she comments that we should have ordered the electric handbrake. Had to agree with her but I already knew it was not in the options.

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Mon 22 Oct 2018 18:19
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - Andrew-T

<< But we use it in auto mode. Stop and the handbrake is operated using the vehicle hydraulics. Open the door or turn off the engine and its operated mechanically. Drive off and it releases automatically. No need to touch the buttons at all.

Absolutely brilliant. >>

.... yes, just as long as all the in-between bits continue to work. KISS, as usual.

I have yet to own anything without a traditional cable brake, tho I have experienced the American-style umbrella-handle type. Sometimes I think designers have a 'new' idea and then just have to make it work. At least for a while.

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Mon 22 Oct 2018 21:22
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - SLO76
“Drove an Avensis back in 2010 and whilst we did not rate it very highly overall the electric handbrake was without a doubt the feature that made us walk. Wrong place for starters.”

Agree totally regards the parking brake switch, it’s just daft. As for the car itself well I agree that I wouldn’t spend the money needed to buy a new one, it isn’t as good a car as many rivals, it’s dated and inefficient by comparison but as a used budget buy it’s the opposite. Its simple design, straightforward running gear and bland image make it ideal. No boy racers will ever have owned it before you and there’s no complex engineering to worry about. Prices are modest thanks to its dull image and there’s no timing belt change to fork out for every 5yrs or so and pretty much anyone can service it.

Cars that make little sense new can be brilliant as a used buy and vice versa. As much as I rate the Superb new or nearly new I wouldn’t touch an early chain driven TSi example or any with a DSG box and I’d be wary of the diesels which are very prone to EGR and DPF issues before 2015. As an older used buy it doesn’t stack up but I’ve confidence the newer model will and it will certainly be on my shopping list in the future.
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Mon 22 Oct 2018 17:33
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - badbusdriver

"Nearly killed myself doing that donut in the carpark; why did no one tell me it operates the FRONT brakes?" (2CV; Alfasud; Saab 900)

Surely if you are using (or trying to) use a handbrake in a fwd car, you were attempting a handbrake turn and not a donut. To do a donut you need rear wheel drive (though it is possible with some 4wd cars). The only way you can do a donut with fwd is if in reverse.............!

As for the handbrake, all Saab's up to the 9000 in the mid 80's had the handbrake operating on the front wheels. Though if memory serves, the last couple of years the 'classic' shape 900's was in production ('91ish to '93), the handbrake was changed to work on the rears.

Hence Rauno Aaltonen and Erik Carlsson using the left foot braking technique while rallying old Saabs to get the rear moving as opposed to a handbrake.

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Mon 22 Oct 2018 17:41
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - badbusdriver

The Meriva we had 2011-2014 had an electronic handbrake. It looked like an electric window switch, but, like a proper handbrake, you pulled it up for on and pushed it down for off. Never had any issues with it fortunately, but i am a little dubious of the benefits.

The new Renault Megane RS has a manual handbrake where the rest of the range has electronic, make of that what you will!.

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Mon 22 Oct 2018 17:35
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - Avant

"A solution to a problem that never existed"

As always, SLO, spot-on. I'm used to the EPB in the Q2 which is at least in the right place (centre console) and comes on and goes off automatically - but SWMBO's A1 has an old-fashioned one which works just fine. I don't think I'd get on well with the combination of EPB and manual gearbox.

Miraculously, the new 2019 A1, going by the advance pictures, still has a manual handbrake.

The worst of all was the Volvo V60, where some tortured Swedish genius not only elected to site the EPB lever by the driver's right knee, but also set it up as push for on, pull for off. Newer Volvos are better, but the tortured genius seems to have moved to Jaguar, where the E-Pace's EPB is in the same God-forsaken position.

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Mon 22 Oct 2018 17:42
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - Falkirk Bairn

Faulty handbrake cables - say £150- £200+ labour

Faulty EPB £1000+ Labour

EPB solves problems that did not exist & after a few cold icy/salty winters costs a fortune - they will last the warranty period then cause you grief.

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Mon 22 Oct 2018 17:50
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - skidpan

I don't think I'd get on well with the combination of EPB and manual gearbox.

We do and its not an issue. Why should it be? It comes on when you stop and releases when you move off. How could an auto change that for the better?

Faulty handbrake cables - say £150- £200+ labour

Faulty EPB £1000+ Labour

Not going to be an issue for us, swap every 3 years now.

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Mon 22 Oct 2018 18:14
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - Manatee

Somebody needs to invent a parking brake with a big handle so that you only have to look at it to see whether it is set or not.

I can accept that automatic ones can be well designed and work well. But so far, those I have come across have irritated me because they were all different in the way they were operated/automated.

Automation can be good, but not is the result is the driver shouting "what's it doing now!"

A Golf I hired had adaptive cruise and automomous braking. Where I would have cancelled cruise and lifted off to slow without touching the brake, the car held speed for too long then braked. When another car rolled up quickly to a junction ahead of me, I covered the brake; the car decided to apply it, quite unnecessarily. This is just annoying when it happens constantly. As for lane-departure-warning-system...does anybody ever leave it switched on?

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Mon 22 Oct 2018 18:34
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - skidpan

A Golf I hired had adaptive cruise and automomous braking. Where I would have cancelled cruise and lifted off to slow without touching the brake, the car held speed for too long then braked

Love the adaptive cruise control on the Superb, really miss it on the Fabia which has good old fashioned cruise. But you need to adjust the settings from the factory ones. The Superb we tested was fine (obviously the user at the garage had adjusted it to sensible settings) and once I fould the menu in the radio it was simple to set to sensible ones.

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Mon 22 Oct 2018 18:42
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - catsdad
Saab had a feature where you could only remove the ignition key if the car was in gear (and switched off obviously). Belt and braces but useful.

As for EPB another issue is if you switch between cars. One fully auto EPB, the other manual. Too easy to get used to auto and be caught out when you swap back to manual and leave the car unbraked. Of course you should adapt but a key aim of EPB is to make it something you needn't think about.
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Mon 22 Oct 2018 20:45
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - Sofa Spud

Another one for the handbrake museum: -

Land Rover handbrakes worked on a separate brake drum on the back of the transmission. So when you stop and pull on the handbrake, your Land Rover would lurch a couple of inches forwards or backwards as the slack in d*****ine was taken up. Apart from the Land Rover lurch, these handbrakes worked well, from what I remember.

The once ubiquitous Bedford TK light and medium weight lorry range used to be equipped with transmission handbrakes too, and they had the same lurching movement after the handbrake was applied.

The handbrake is supposed to be an emergency brake but I was always told that if you pulled a Bedford TK handbrake on while moving at speed anyone following you would be dodging bits of shrapnel.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 22/10/2018 at 20:46

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Mon 22 Oct 2018 22:28
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - badbusdriver

"Saab had a feature where you could only remove the ignition key if the car was in gear (and switched off obviously). Belt and braces but useful."

Yes, the manual cars had to be in reverse, the auto's (if memory serves) had to be in park. But i remember a mechanic at the Saab dealer i used to work at saying that while it was quite easy to break into a Saab, it was not very easy to overcome the gearbox lock. The 99's (like i had at the time) and the old 900's were very prone to the door locks freezing in winter (curious, given where they come from) and when i queried that same mechanic what he did to overcome this problem (he had a 1983 900 turbo), he said that he just left it unlocked!.

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Mon 22 Oct 2018 22:58
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - mss1tw

Handbrakes seem to be going the way of oil lamps - will any cars still have them in 5 years' time? Most likely not, with all the brake buttons and "auto hold" features creeping in everywhere.
Thinking back to a few cars in our family, there have been some weird examples over the years. Maybe these need to go in a "Handbrake museum" if anything so geeky were ever created....
"Next to the door for some reason": Rootes saloons and a few others;
"Umbrella handle, under the dashboard" (2CV; BMC 1800)
"Spade-handle - 'yank and twist' " (Citroën GS, Mercedes W126)
"Belongs in a plane cockpit" (Mk.1 Megane, Zafira; Peugeot 2008)
"Prize for the worst design ever" (Toyota Avensis - the only PRESS button brake in the world, and it's mounted almost completely out of sight.
"Nearly killed myself doing that donut in the carpark; why did no one tell me it operates the FRONT brakes?" (2CV; Alfasud; Saab 900)


The 'jackpot' handbrake in my CRV is a design I hadn't seen before. I quite like it.

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Tue 23 Oct 2018 10:03
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - ExA35Owner

On my A35s (yes indeed) the handbrake was to the right of the driver's seat. With the ratchet a bit worn, it was possible to knock the lever and release the handbrake by accident. Incidentally, the handbrake was just about useless at holding the car on an uphill slope. I did learn to do hill starts without a handbrake......

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Tue 23 Oct 2018 11:26
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - Avant

That will have been because 1950s Austins had wide, comfortable seats (a bonus given that cars were much narrower then). Early 50s Austins had umbrella-style handbrakes, then they moved to the position on the right like yours.

I'd imagine that the more convoluted cabling made them less efficient than the normal centre pull-up arrangement.

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Tue 23 Oct 2018 11:45
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - RT

Cars with bench seats, which was the norm back then, couldn't use centre pull-up parking brakes so it had to be dashboard pull-out or right side pull-up.

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Tue 23 Oct 2018 11:56
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - madf

Cars with bench seats, which was the norm back then, couldn't use centre pull-up parking brakes so it had to be dashboard pull-out or right side pull-up.

Like my long missed 1953 Rover 75 with leather bench seat..and right hand handbrake - ratchet under floor protected by metal shield - which had rusted away. (This was 9167 and I was a student - it cost £45 iirc)

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Tue 23 Oct 2018 19:11
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - badbusdriver

Two cars i remember having the handbrake on the right were the Jaguar XJS and the Peugeot 504 pickup. Very different vehicles granted, but i encountered both while working at a car body repair shop not long after passing my test. What struck me as odd was the fact that when the handbrake was on, it didn't stay up. I understand completely how akward it would be having to get out over a fully raised handbrake, but i couldn't figure out how it worked. And as a new driver, i was more than a bit nervous leaving either parked with the handbrake appearing to be off!.

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Tue 23 Oct 2018 21:58
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - Bilboman

I remember taking my grandmother's 1959 vintage A35 for a spin around the village one weekend when my dad and I were emptying the house for sale and disposing of a few possessions, including her car, which went to a collector in the Cotswolds.
It felt really fast but it was the drum brakes that epitomised the A35 experience. I started braking on a steepish hill in Wiltshire and finally came to a stop in Gloucestershire, as I recall. That little car was almost as cheeky and characterful as the Mini which replaced it, from the fly-off handbrake by the driver's door to the red leatherette seats; the swivelling bakelite ashtray to the footwell courtesy light, and that bonnet-mounted "Flying A" bonnet release/mascot/pedestrian slicer.

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Tue 23 Oct 2018 22:51
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - Manatee

Now there's a thing, fly-off handbrakes. Much easier to use than the standard ratchet once accustomed to.

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Tue 23 Oct 2018 23:54
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - gordonbennet

Talking of drum brakes i once owned a '71 5.7 litre Mustang Boss that had unservoed drum brakes all round, stopping from its considerable speed was er interesting, and i can't for the life of me remember how the parking brake worked.

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Wed 24 Oct 2018 12:53
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - John F

Now there's a thing, fly-off handbrakes. Much easier to use than the standard ratchet once accustomed to.

Yes, I had one on my enjoyable wreck of an ancient XK120 - sadly traded in for a more practical TR7 (now even more ancient) after marriage. Here's an explanatory post for youngsters who have never come across one.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=21211

As for EPBs, I only use mine about once a month, just enough to keep it working and not enough to wear it out, as my car ownership longevity philosophy is the complete opposite of those who choose to change cars every three years or so.

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Wed 24 Oct 2018 09:46
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - FoxyJukebox

I love walking up Holywell Hill in St Albans ( ultra steep) seeing how even experienced drivers come to grief wrestling with hill starts. I have seen L drivers utterly spooked trying to handle their vehicles. On one occasion-a young driver had selected reverse gear instead of first--so his hill start went backwards-much to the annoyance and horror of the queuing traffic following.

In other words-a handbrake is an opportunity to learn how properly handle a car.

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Wed 24 Oct 2018 09:57
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - gordonbennet

In other words-a handbrake is an opportunity to learn how properly handle a car.

Indeed, vehicle control is a fast disappearing skill-set.

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Wed 24 Oct 2018 10:43
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - madf

In other words-a handbrake is an opportunity to learn how properly handle a car.

Indeed, vehicle control is a fast disappearing skill-set.

I blame syncromesh - double declutching required so much more skill...:-)

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Wed 24 Oct 2018 11:39
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - galileo

In other words-a handbrake is an opportunity to learn how properly handle a car.

Indeed, vehicle control is a fast disappearing skill-set.

I blame syncromesh - double declutching required so much more skill...:-)

Mk1 and Mk2 Consuls and Zephyrs - umbrella type handbrakes under the dash and no synchro on first, which was often needed if balked on a hill by traffic.

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Wed 24 Oct 2018 12:16
Handbrakes we will miss (or maybe not) - glowplug

Citroen XM - pedal and handle, pedal to apply and handle to lock. So to set off you just pull the handle. Fun in a hilly city with a manual box, though it does make you concentrate.

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