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We are already buying cars from China.. Mg car co.. MG3, MG ZS, MG GS
Volvo owned by Geely, London taxis...
They are coming.. some will remember how we smirked at the parrot poop welding on japaneses bike frames when we got the first hondas., then, remember how they didn't leak? then they started wiping the floor racing...
The chinese are coming, no doubt about it.
MG are going to improve the GS, and i am sure the price will creep up too. but on average £3000 to £5000 cheaper in their class.
If I need to swap the venga, the ZS is a contender in Excite trim, and lots of pre-regs available at 1000 to 1500 off.
Lynk & co are definitely coming next year.
Edited by oldroverboy. on 19/08/2018 at 17:05
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They are coming.. some will remember how we smirked at the parrot poop welding on japaneses bike frames when we got the first hondas., then, remember how they didn't leak? then they started wiping the floor racing...
The chinese are coming, no doubt about it.
Lynk & co are definitely coming next year.
Bring it on I say. I'm looking forward to more choice.
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No. Because I am patriotic, europhilic and prefer if possible to direct my custom accordingly where possible. I also try to avoid placing it where human rights are undervalued. Sadly, we cannot compete electronically - brought home to me many years ago when TVs were often luxoriously enclosed in polished wooden furniture. Seen in department store...large TV, £400 (from Japan). Even larger polished wooden box for it, £400 (made in England). Heigh ho.
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The quality of Chinese cars at present isn't up to scratch compared to established manufacturers, so I wouldn't buy one, and I should note that some Chinese-only brands apparently (I remember reading it...somewhere) don't (yet) meet the minimum safety specs of the EU/US.
Essentially they now are the equivalent of the Japanese from the 1960s and 70s, building cheap knock-offs of European and American designed cars (obvious 'fakes' like the 'Land Wind') as well as, as ORB says, them buying up established brands in trouble like MG and Volvo, although only the former gets to be made in China I think - the designs for both are in the UK and Sweden and manufacturing for Volvo is still in Europe. That may change though.
I agree that whilst many (including me, sometimes) scoff at the low-rent nature of their cars, many people said that about their electronics, and look where they are now - they make the majority of PCBs, computer equipment, HiFis, mobile phones, etc etc, even if the designs for the leading brands still come from outside. Many leading makes now in that field are Chinese through and through.
Wait 10-15 years and some of the established brands who are starting to struggle will either be bought upon the cheap or subsumed into Chinese companies like MG or Volvo. And they have a large potential market in the developing world growing richer that will at some point soon want cars other than Toyota pick-ups and Mercedes (dictators only) and who can't afford Eurobox prices.
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That’s a good summary of Chinese car makers. Give it another 10-15 years, and they will be dominant. I wouldn’t touch them today as they are not safe enough.
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I have some lawn and garden machinery powered by chinese motors. Loncin and Lifan motors are as good as Honda's for the hours I use them for, if I was a pro user I would probably stump up for Honda powered stuff for peace of mind.
I have one oddball small chinese motor on a Karcher pressure washer - The brand is "Grow " never heard of them and can't find any info about them - if it goes bang I can get a Loncin direct replacement in the UK for £130!
About the chinese copying, Lifan are currently involved in sueing another chinese company for copying their copy of a Honda lawnmower engine!
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I can see those buying on price being tempted but can't see those buying brand being tempted for the foreseeable future. Dacia wouldn't sell many if it they weren't cheap and Kia would sell a lot more Stingers if brand didn't matter.
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I am all for more chinese cars especially commercial vehicles
Worth mentioning, Land Rover in China still have alot of customers who demand a UK built vehicle rather than a Chinese built identical one. They simply do not trust the build quality of their own countrymen, especially on high value products
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There's this obsession these days with things like interior materials, to me these things matter because most modern cars are so bland and souless that the dashboard material matters. It something is Chinese cheap and fun to drive - why not? If I could buy a new one I'd have my old Citroën CX Turbo 2, Rover SD1 Vitesse or Triumph Dolomite Sprint over anything available today - yeah they had nasty materials in the interior and a lack of quality - but I loved driving all of them. HJs review of the facelifted MG3 nails what I'm getting at - basic and scratchy it might be - but it's a hoot to drive, just like my old P11 Primera nothing to look at inside or out - but light for its class and what a chassis.
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If I could buy a new one I'd have my old Citroën CX Turbo 2, Rover SD1 Vitesse or Triumph Dolomite Sprint over anything available today - yeah they had nasty materials in the interior and a lack of quality - but I loved driving all of them.
Triumphs were a cut above the rest for quality materials. My Dolly Sprint had wooden dash and door cappings and decent carpets and seats - nicer (and quicker) than a Golf GTi. And I wonder how many oldies on here remember the soft solid 'clunk' of closing a Triumph 1300 door.
Edited by Avant on 20/08/2018 at 13:31
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Do not click on this link above - I've tried to get rid of it but can't - it's nonsense. It was meant to be a pic of the Dolly Sprint interior.
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I've deleted it for you John, but thanks for trying!
Very fond memories of the Triumph 1300: SWMBO had one long ago, and it was one of the most comfortable cars we ever had. The engine wasn't great: I think it was a design that originated with the awful old Standard 8 and 10 of the 1950s. The very good overall refinement of the 1300 was offset by the starter motor, which made a noise like old-fashioned Hollywood sound effects for the fall of Babylon.
I never tried a Dolomite 1850, but wish I had. When I could afford one I went for the extra versatility of a Maxi Highline. That was a good car, and the two I had were reliable, but a bit of me regrets never having a Dolomite.
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I've deleted it for you John, but thanks for trying!
Very fond memories of the Triumph 1300: SWMBO had one long ago, and it was one of the most comfortable cars we ever had. The engine wasn't great: I think it was a design that originated with the awful old Standard 8 and 10 of the 1950s. The very good overall refinement of the 1300 was offset by the starter motor, which made a noise like old-fashioned Hollywood sound effects for the fall of Babylon.
I never tried a Dolomite 1850, but wish I had. When I could afford one I went for the extra versatility of a Maxi Highline. That was a good car, and the two I had were reliable, but a bit of me regrets never having a Dolomite.
The parents of a school friend of my sister owned on of those - it wen like the proverbial clappers compared to my parents Escort 1100, until that is, it fell to bits, like so many cars built in the 1970s and 80s.
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I've deleted it for you John, but thanks for trying!
Thanks, Avant
Very fond memories of the Triumph 1300: SWMBO had one .........
......so did my mother. I borrowed it frequently and eventually bought an old one myself for £100. It was plenty fast enough and held the road well (I remember a tail-heavy Hillman Imp turning over on a corner when trying to leave me behind on a country road). Its Achilles heel(s) were the curious rubber doughnut CVJs for the front wheel drive - and the exposed flywheel teeth (responsible for the 'spanner-in-the-works' starting noise!) once managed to chew up some discarded fence wire - took ages to disentangle in the dark being tired and emotional after, er, an evening out......
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Why buy an MG3, which is basically an unknown in terms of reliability, when you can get a VW Up, which is a nice little car with a perky engine and good space. A 90 PS Up is £12000 before discount.
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Outside maybe. Similar size boot. Probably similar size cabin. The Up uses a very compact engine and has almost the same internal space as the previous generation Polo. The Up is reasonably reliable with a very good safety rating, and lots of garages can service it.
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I can see those buying on price being tempted but can't see those buying brand being tempted for the foreseeable future. Dacia wouldn't sell many if it they weren't cheap and Kia would sell a lot more Stingers if brand didn't matter.
Brands can change peoples perceptions over time though if that is what the brands wants to do.
Kia is a good example of a company that even ony a few years ago were producing very cheap cars based on older models from other companies but have come a long way since then. If they continue to produce the quality they do now then no doubt in a few years cars like the Stinger could have bigger sales. The Stinger itself if there to push the brand into peoples minds.
No doubt some of the Chinese brands will do the same and become rivals to the esablishes makes whilst some will fall by the wayside.
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Kia is a good example of a company that even ony a few years ago were producing very cheap cars based on older models from other companies but have come a long way since then.
That's exactly what I was going to say. I'd also put Hyundai in the same boat.
Quality may be questionable now, but Chinese cars could be a real presence on our roads within the next decade.
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Hyundai - in the late 80s a mate had one that was effectively a Ford Cortina with bits on. He got it second hand with 90k on the clock. It was about the time the Ford Sierra came out so I guess the brought the tooling.
It was packed with extras like electric windows, electric wing mirrors, powersteering etc which were just not available unless you got the top model cortina.
He put another 100k on it. It wasn't totally trouble free, but it was no worse than equivalent cars at the time.
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Hyundai - in the late 80s a mate had one that was effectively a Ford Cortina with bits on. He got it second hand with 90k on the clock. It was about the time the Ford Sierra came out so I guess the brought the tooling.
It was packed with extras like electric windows, electric wing mirrors, powersteering etc which were just not available unless you got the top model cortina.
He put another 100k on it. It wasn't totally trouble free, but it was no worse than equivalent cars at the time.
It was probably a Hyundai Stellar. Great car at the time. Taxi drivers liked them a lot.
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I had a Dolly 1850 and a Sprint with overdrive (why can’t you get that anymore - brilliant!).
Both after I just passed my test.
Great cars with Predictable rwd handling
Can’t imagine getting insured for anything like that now at 17!
Must be equivalent of a 320 BMW now?
Those were the days.
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Hyundai, Kia and Proton all took a sensible road to acceptance in Europe. They based their designs on previous gen Japanese models, Hyundai (Mitsubishi) Kia (Mazda) and Proton (Mitsubishi) all of which were well proven and terrifically reliable if a bit dull. They earned their right to charge mainstream money after decades of building up a name for reliability.
Sadly Proton rather went astray when the started trying to develop their own cars. Quality sagged and the rage became increasingly confused. Kia and Hyundai today are every bit the match for Europe’s mainstream manufacturers. But it shows just how long it took to get there, how long they had to pay their dues. The Chinese thought they could bypass this by gluing an MG badge and a Union Jack on to their cheaply made cars and go straight to top money. Early high spec MG6’s were listed at over £16k at a time when you could buy a well specced mainstream rival for similar money and they suffered horrific depreciation as a result.
They should accept that there’s no quick way to build a reputation, they need to price them as budget cars, possibly marginally ahead of Dacia but while they have improved the cars and been a bit more realistic on price they are still too dear and depreciation and higher general running costs will mean they’ll cost more over full term ownership than dearer mainstream rivals. Even their latest offering the ZS has been roundly panned by the motoring press with really only the warranty being praised yet you can still spend well over £17k on one of these.
Edited by SLO76 on 20/08/2018 at 23:21
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The Chinese thought they could bypass this by gluing an MG badge and a Union Jack on to their cheaply made cars and go straight to top money. Early high spec MG6’s were listed at over £16k at a time when you could buy a well specced mainstream rival for similar money and they suffered horrific depreciation as a result. They should accept that there’s no quick way to build a reputation, they need to price them as budget cars, possibly marginally ahead of Dacia but while they have improved the cars and been a bit more realistic on price they are still too dear and depreciation and higher general running costs will mean they’ll cost more over full term ownership than dearer mainstream rivals. Even their latest offering the ZS has been roundly panned by the motoring press with really only the warranty being praised yet you can still spend well over £17k on one of these.
As the GBP gets weaker against other currencies all car manufacturers will raise their list prices. Many already have. I agree that MG list prices are too dear but if they want to sell them haggling must be possible. It's a shame MG didn't build their cars in the UK.
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The Chinese thought they could bypass this by gluing an MG badge and a Union Jack on to their cheaply made cars and go straight to top money. Early high spec MG6’s were listed at over £16k at a time when you could buy a well specced mainstream rival for similar money and they suffered horrific depreciation as a result. They should accept that there’s no quick way to build a reputation, they need to price them as budget cars, possibly marginally ahead of Dacia but while they have improved the cars and been a bit more realistic on price they are still too dear and depreciation and higher general running costs will mean they’ll cost more over full term ownership than dearer mainstream rivals. Even their latest offering the ZS has been roundly panned by the motoring press with really only the warranty being praised yet you can still spend well over £17k on one of these.
As the GBP gets weaker against other currencies all car manufacturers will raise their list prices. Many already have. I agree that MG list prices are too dear but if they want to sell them haggling must be possible. It's a shame MG didn't build their cars in the UK.
You don't have to haggle, Look on Autotrader and you will see £1000-1500 off list on unregistered "pre-reg" whatever that is. The ZS actually has a huge amount of space, and prettier than a Duster, at least to me..
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They are probably a reasonable long-term buy for a retiree who doesn't do much driving, and thus who probably doesn't care about the depreciation. A cheap shopping car. I'd probably (but I'm only in my 40s) still buy a 1/2yo base spec Mazda2/Yaris or similar if I wanted a reliable supermini to tootle round 3k miles a year for 10 years. Similar price to the new MG but still a much better car underneath.
The other issue with MG is that there aren't many dealers about - a local one (shared the premises with a KIA dealership) sold practically zip cars (fine on the KIA side, which is still there and doing well) and gave up about 3 years ago. God knows where the nearest dealer is now. I'm certainly not driving 50+ miles just to get a cheapo car serviced in its warranty period (different if it was a supercar).
I suspect, like Hyundai did with that BMW designer chap, the Chinese brands and owned brands will use their (now) large financial clout to attract top European designers and to set up internal academies to pass on this knowledge to the next generation.
See what the situation is in 10-15 years.
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