Diesel benefits for low mileage user

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Sun 14 Jan 2018 07:44

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - NAthan smith

We got a great deal on a 66 plate 1.5 dci n connecta Juke. She previously ran a 1.4 petrol 500x. My point is there are a lot of people who say you must do 20k for a diesel. I disagree my wife does around 8000 miles a year mixture of school run and a weekly run of 60 mile journey. Her average mpg in the fiat was 31.2 she is now averaging 52.2. That is a huge saving in fuel, (she is paying &20 instead of &140 in tax and the car works out at no more a month for her.

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Sun 14 Jan 2018 09:03

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - RobJP

But, when she gets the DPF getting clogged up (and that is NOT covered by the warranty) and faces a £1k+ bill, how will the figures add up then ? Or when the engine oil is getting contaminated by fuel due to failed active DPF regens and she has to get additional oil changes done ... or ... well, you get the picture, I'm sure.

To look at the REAL fuel savings, she was using 1165 litres of petrol a year, which (going off average prices on petrolprices.com) works out at a cost of £1,409 per annum.

Her new fuel cost, using diesel, is £864 per annum.

So that's a saving of about £550 per annum. But if she gets DPF/EGR problems, all those savings vanish on the spot.

Add in the 'anti-diesel' sentiment doing the rounds (with the potential that lots of diesels will be getting prohibited or heavily restricted from towns and cities, or getting big 'pollution penalty' charges, thus leading to bigger depreciation on those cars as nobody wants to buy them due to those bigger charges), and suddenly the 'savings' could be non-existent.

Don't get me wrong. I drive a diesel. I like them, and think the current anti-diesel agenda is overdone to a ridiculous level.

But just looking at the headline fuel savings is a bit like burying your head in the sand.

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Sun 14 Jan 2018 11:43

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - NAthan smith

People do over use this DPF argument!y wife will do a long run 60 mile round trip once every week or so. I’m happy that will clear the DPF! It’s all very negative you could buy any car in the world and have problems with it!

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Sun 14 Jan 2018 09:09

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - SLO76

This is one of the occasions where despite your low overall mileage diesel does actually make more sense but most cases do not.

A quick look on Auto doofer shows plenty of similar cars in my area between £10,695 and £10,995 but instead of costing less for a petrol equivalent the 1.2 turbo actually costs exactly the same at every dealer within 50 miles of me.

So there’s no initial cost to overcome with that small fuel and road tax saving which at your mileage would save probably £300 a year over the 1.2. However as the car ages the diesel is prone to more in the way of expensive faults (DPF being most likely) but this particular (Renault) engine is actually pretty good. It’s very clean running, doesn’t suffer DPF issues often or much else to be honest as long as it’s looked after properly. I’ve seen them in Clio’s with well over 150k and running ok but they are known for premature timing belt failure so if you intend longterm ownership make sure it’s changed a bit early.

It’s not all clear cut, some models make more sense as a diesel (particularly if there’s no added cost at the start) and as long as you’re doing at least one longer trip every week it should be fine certainly in the short term.

Enjoy your new car but I wouldn’t be advising people to blindly go diesel in every case. It works here but more often than not on a low mileage it doesn’t.

Edited by SLO76 on 14/01/2018 at 09:11

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Sun 14 Jan 2018 09:11

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - Ebob

I think if this was 2 years ago you would have paid a large premium for the diesel variant. As we all know diesel saleshavee fallen and continue to fall.

Assuming both petrol and diesel cost £1.20 a litre your fuel bill will be £1384 in the petrol and £824 in the diesel so a saving of £560 a year plus tax savings

I think 31.2 mpg seems like a pretty low comparison as well I get just shy of 40 mpg in my 1.8 petrol Avensis.

Let's hope that the weekly 60 mile trip is enough to blow away the cobwebs and prevent and expensive fuel injector, egr, dpf issues.

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Sun 14 Jan 2018 09:19

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - Ebob

Another point is with the anti diesel sentiment is when you come to sell it or trade it in you may have lost a lot due to steep depreciation.

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Sun 14 Jan 2018 11:45

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - NAthan smith

No more than on a 1.4 petrol. This anti diesel mindset is being blown out of proportion, major changes will not happen for the next 10-15 yrs

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Sun 14 Jan 2018 09:23

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - John F

I think 31.2 mpg seems like a pretty low comparison as well I get just shy of 40 mpg in my 1.8 petrol Avensis.

31.2 for a small engine in a tiny car is very poor. I suspect the OP has miscalculated, or is trying to convince himself of the merits of the fuel of satan. Last year I did an accurate 'brim-to-brim' calculation over 900miles for our ancient 1.6 Zetec Ford Focus estate automatic and got 37.6 mpg. It has done 137,000m and needed no expensive engine repairs, just spark plugs every 50,000m or so.

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Sun 14 Jan 2018 09:35

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - Andrew-T

<< Last year I did an accurate 'brim-to-brim' calculation over 900miles for our ancient 1.6 Zetec Ford Focus estate automatic and got 37.6 mpg. >>

John , brim-to-brim is all very well, but I'm sure you know that the only convincing way to estimate a car's consumption is by recording quantity and mileage for every fuel purchase over about 2000 miles, then draw a graph and calculate the slope.

Of course if that is outside your abilities, use the back of an envelope. :-)

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Sun 14 Jan 2018 09:47

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - skidpan

We used to get 45 mpg from a 1.4 TSi Seat leon, we are getting about the same from a 1.4 TSi Skoda Superb. the wife gets about 47 mpg from a Nissan Note 1.2 DIG-S. We used to have diesels, the best we had for mpg was a Kia Ceed 1.6 CRDi which did about 51 mpg in the same type of usage. We do about 8000 miles a year.

The difference between 45mpg and 51 mpg is £125 a year. The difference between 47 mpg and 51 mpg is about £80 a year.

The VED on the Leon and Superb is £90 a year less than the diesel, the Note is £0 VED so we save £120 a year. Those savings wipe the extro cost of petrol out totally.

Add the that the fact that modern petrols drive far better than any diesel we have owned. they have power all the way form 1500 rpm to 6000 rpm with no turbo lag and are almost totally silent.

The OP is comparing an old school underpowered no turbo petrol in what is quite possibly a heavy car with a diesel that is acknowledged to give good mpg, its not a fair comparison.

If they had bought a Juke with the 1.2 DIG-T engine they would have spent very little extra on fuel but would have spent less buying the car.

With 8000 miles a year the OP will almost certainly get a light on the dash at some point. Nissan cover the first forced tegen under warranty but charge for the remainder, its over £150 now.

We loved diesels in the past. Compared to old school 2 litre petrols they drove better and we saved a small fortune on fuel costs, We calculated that the Ceed CRDi saved us over £2000 over the 5 years we owned it factoring in fuel, depreciation, VED and the extra £££'s it cost to buy. But with our mileage at 8000 a year and the superb, economical small turbo petrols its no more diesels for us.

Is the OP taking the figures from the dash display or calculating them. The displays lie. We had one that read 25% higher than calculated but we also had one that read about 4% lower. Odometers lie as well. We have had them that over read by 4% and under read by the same amount. These make a difference to any figures you calculate.

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Sun 14 Jan 2018 10:11

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - daveyjp

My first thought was the mpg for the Fiat didn’t look particularly good, no better than my Forester which weighs far more and has 4wd.

Modern petrols are far more efficient and will get 40+ even on school run trips.

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Sun 14 Jan 2018 10:24

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - gordonbennet

Sometimes there comes a point when you just want what you want, lots of people like Diesels due to the torque available, maybe possible issues are worth the risk for them.

Personally if i was forced into a modern car i wouldn't want a DPF Diesel (though if i had the funds for a Landcruiser 200 with the V8 that could change :-), but would not want a small petrol turbocharged or not, i'd sooner search out the larger capacity petrol engine and put up with the extra fuel use or if suitable get it LPG converted, we haven't all been cloned yet.

Edited by gordonbennet on 14/01/2018 at 10:24

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Sun 14 Jan 2018 11:48

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - NAthan smith

That was from the display mpg, it was also pretty poor on long runs on the motorway aswell at only 38mpg

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Sun 14 Jan 2018 15:07

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - Andrew-T

That was from the display mpg, it was also pretty poor on long runs on the motorway aswell at only 38mpg

As Skidpan has said, and as I said above, calculate the correct consumption yourself. The dash doesn't necessarily get it right. If you find your own sums agree with it, THEN you can believe what it tells you.

I hope that on the school run, while waiting for kids to emerge, the engine is not idling to keep the car warm? :-)

Edited by Andrew-T on 14/01/2018 at 15:10

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Sun 14 Jan 2018 10:18

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - badbusdriver

Our honda jazz cvt is driven mostly short journeys during which it averages 48mpg. With a bit more out of town running, it will average 55+mpg. This also happens to be more or less the same as we got from our previous car, a hyundai i30 1.6 turbo diesel auto.

The jazz is much more spacious and practical and versatile than a juke despite taking up less road space. It is also safer in the event of an accident (much, much safer if you are unlucky enough be a pedestrian hit by one!)

I wouldn't expect the fiat 500x to be particularly economical, but, like others, i think 31mpg seems a tad off!. You would have to be really trying some to get the average mpg down that low surely?.

You mention the diesel not costing your wife any more per month which i'm assuming is a monthly payment?. If the car is some personal lease type deal, that does make a bit more sense in the petrol vs diesel debate, because presumably it will be returned after a couple of years, and if any serious problem (emissions related or otherwise) occur during that time, it will also be dealt with by 'someone else'. The main issues regarding diesels are much more worrying for people who actually buy the car as opposed to 'renting' it for a couple of years.

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Sun 14 Jan 2018 10:56

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - Bromptonaut

The 60 mile journey, particularly if it is actually 120 round trip, makes a difference for the OP.

For somebody just doing the school run etc all informed advice is to avoid diesel. That does not of course mean every low mileage diesel will have DPF or other fuel related issues. But like the 40/day 40yr smoker who's ad fit as a fiddle, their experience doesn't trump statistics.

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Sun 14 Jan 2018 11:46

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - NAthan smith

That was using the trip meter and me working it out. Like in the op a lot of short shape runs to school and back !

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Tue 23 Jan 2018 21:44

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - Getaway

But you bought a Juke? Don't you like your wife very much?

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Wed 24 Jan 2018 12:31

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - Gibbo_Wirral

I bet the salesman gave the usual patter "diesels cars a great becaue they're quiet and smooth now. You get great MPG and pay virtually no road tax".

And never mentioned additives, DPFs or regens.

Perhaps the OP is one of those who changes their car every couple of years, so it will end up being someone else's problem.

Then they will complain about reliability and unfairly slate diesels in general because of it.

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Wed 24 Jan 2018 18:11

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - NAthan smith

Both of us have been driving diesels for 20 yrs and I have never had any DPF problems. It’s all hyped up and sadly believed by far too many people.

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Wed 24 Jan 2018 18:41

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - badbusdriver

According to HJ the 1st DPF was used on a citroen C5 in 2001, larger(?) diesels needed them for euro4 in 2005, but it wasn't until 2011 that all diesels had to have them. So how have you managed 20 years experience of trouble free DPF diesels?.

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Wed 24 Jan 2018 20:04

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - NAthan smith

As I said my experience of driving diesels I’ve never had any problems

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Wed 24 Jan 2018 21:19

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - alan1302

As I said my experience of driving diesels I’ve never had any problems

Other people have had different experiences though...and people like HonestJohn would recommend against it as well. I'll follow their advice as they have a lot more experience in it.

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Thu 25 Jan 2018 12:01

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - movilogo

Many modern mid-size petrol hatchbacks are now capable of 50 MPG on motoways. So really don't see benefit for diesel unless doing starship mileages or pulling heavy loads/off roading etc.

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Thu 25 Jan 2018 14:44

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - skidpan

Many modern mid-size petrol hatchbacks are now capable of 50 MPG on motoways. So really don't see benefit for diesel unless doing starship mileages or pulling heavy loads/off roading etc.

Our 1.4 TSi Leon would do just over 50 mpg on a holiday run and 45 mpg overall. Our 1.4 TSi Superb does slightly better than the Leon on a holiday run but a bit less overall. These are calculated and not from the fuel confuser.

We have had diesels that did less or no better than this, a Mondeo 2.0 TDCi would just do 50 on a run but only 40 mpg overall. Even a 1.6 TDI Focus only did 44 mpg overall. the last diesel we had was a Kia Ceed 1.6 CRDi. That would do about 56 mpg on a run and averaged about 50 mpg overall so a bit better.

As I said my experience of driving diesels I’ve never had any problems

We never had a problem with diesels but why risk it when modern petrols drive far better and are nearly as economical. The Ceed would cost about £100 a year less to fuel up than the Superb but was £100 more a year VED. Cost was thus the same.

To me it makes no sense to risk diesels on 8000 miles a year.

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Thu 25 Jan 2018 15:49

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - xtrailman

I only do 7K miles a year, mainly short runs with around ten tours towing in the summer.

I have run a DPF diesel since 2009 and before a diesel that was none DPF from 2004. And have never had a DPF problem.

I would love to buy a petrol to tow my 1700kg caravan and 1703kg car, but finding one in a AWD SUV that's both powerful enough with the same torque of 420nm isn't easy.

And when i do look at one that does they are very expensive, with poor emissions and MPG.

For me all this anti diesel campaign is going to make my next diesel purchase much cheaper. Future petrol engines are also likely to get a particulate filter to meet emmisions.

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Thu 25 Jan 2018 16:10

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - FP

"Future petrol engines are also likely to get a particulate filter to meet emmisions."

Oh, yes! GPFs* are are on the way. But they won't have the same problems as diesel particulate filters.

“At last, this month European legislation has caught up. As part of the efforts to stop another VW-type scandal, all new models have to undergo extra tests and from September 2018 every new car will be subjected to these tests. PM limits now for the first time apply to direct injection petrol engines…

“We hope that all manufacturers will see sense and fit GPF as standard. Each filter costs around £25, requires no maintenance, doesn’t increase fuel consumption and is simpler than a DPF because it won’t clog up in urban running as the exhaust from a petrol engine is hot enough to allow the filter to clean itself without any extra help.” From tinyurl.com/y7ekadup, dated September 2017

*Gasoline Particulate Filter. We seem to be lumbered with the Americanism.

Edited by FP on 25/01/2018 at 16:12

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Fri 26 Jan 2018 13:13

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - Gibbo_Wirral

Many modern mid-size petrol hatchbacks are now capable of 50 MPG on motoways. So really don't see benefit for diesel unless doing starship mileages or pulling heavy loads/off roading etc.

Not even "modern". I went from a 2003 2L diesel to a 2008 1.4 petrol and get almost the same mileage per 50L. It had been years since I last owned and drove a petrol, so I was pleastantly suprised to reach 450 miles before the low fuel light came on!

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Fri 26 Jan 2018 16:11

Diesel benefits for low mileage user - Steveieb

Those of you who have seen the latest episode of the Grand Tour will have seen James May s in flight refuelling system for cars.
The idea was brought about by the wait motorists endure while customers leave their cars on the forecourt while they do their weekly shopping . Resulting in waiting a staggering 37 days in. Lifetime.

So this highlights the benefit of a diesel which was demonstrated in an earlier edition of TopbGear when Clarkson drove an A 6 diesel on a round trip from London to Edinburgh on one tank of diesel.

So pit stops were for comfort breaks for the driver and the car remained untouched.

My A4 Tdi PD will register a 700 mile capability on fill up.

And trying to avoid fuelling at a non supermarket station is another bugbear.

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