|
Thanks. What are your thoughts on a Ford Fiesta? Just because she used to driving a Ford.
|
The Fiesta is a fine option as long as you avoid the 1.0 Ecoboost engines or anything fitted with Ford’s troublesome Powershift automated manual gearbox. Stick with the Yamaha designed 1.4 petrol and conventional torque converter box and you should be fine. Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20180108256...3
|
|
|
|
Honda jazz, Toyota yaris (both cvt auto), mazda 2, hyundai i20 and Kia rio (torque converter auto). All of the above should prove reliable but the 2 cvt cars will be more economical.
Avoid anything with single or dual clutch automated manual transmission.
I would recommend exactly the same cars as 'badbusdriver' if you want a reliable automatic these are pretty much your only choices....or the slightly smaller Hyundai i10 / Kia Picanto........
Edited by Robsnextcar on 13/01/2018 at 01:45
|
|
To secure the best chances of reliability......Toyota Yaris/Honda Jazz.
|
|
Interesting that the OP considers a VW UP as a "granny car". I thought it was marketed as a city car for the younger generation, and certainly see most drivers as fairly young, perhaps their first car. Anyway, Yaris, Fiesta or Jazz but don't forget Suzuki Swift 1.2 and Mazda 2.
|
|
Yaris is the one likely to be giving good service in another ten years time, but make sure it has the CVT auto gearbox not the previous MMT automated manual thing, one can only describe it as a thing.
Might be interesting to compare servicing costs, whilst Toyota servicing is reasonably priced the car requires an engine oil change every year or 10k (if i recall correctly) whichever comes first, but this is good practice with every car for a long trouble free life.
It does mean some other makes can appear cheaper to own because they apprently require less servicing, this is not the full picture.
Edited by gordonbennet on 13/01/2018 at 11:19
|
|
|
Interesting that the OP considers a VW UP as a "granny car". I thought it was marketed as a city car for the younger generation, and certainly see most drivers as fairly young, perhaps their first car. Anyway, Yaris, Fiesta or Jazz but don't forget Suzuki Swift 1.2 and Mazda 2.
I thought the same thing re the vw up but didn't want to say, each to their own etc!. To be honest I'd more readily associate the skoda fabia with an 'older' driver, which was one of the two mentioned by the OP 1st!.
But hey ho, both the up and fabia would have dsg, which you'd want to avoid anyway!
|
Interesting that the OP considers a VW UP as a "granny car". I thought it was marketed as a city car for the younger generation, and certainly see most drivers as fairly young, perhaps their first car. Anyway, Yaris, Fiesta or Jazz but don't forget Suzuki Swift 1.2 and Mazda 2.
I thought the same thing re the vw up but didn't want to say, each to their own etc!. To be honest I'd more readily associate the skoda fabia with an 'older' driver, which was one of the two mentioned by the OP 1st!.
But hey ho, both the up and fabia would have dsg, which you'd want to avoid anyway!
Ought to try to get the facts right if advising someone else ... the "Up" doesn't have a DSG box. It's a single clutch automated manual, but the Fabia will have DSG automatic transmission ... a dry clutch DSG - the less favoured version, as opposed to the wet clutch DSG which is seemingly better thought of but is reserved for larger engines.
Given the budget stated it would probably be prudent to avoid the DSG for all the known reasons. But I'll say it again - I love my DSG but admit I hope it doesn't fail dramatically ... I'd buy another DSG but only with an extended VAG warranty and the OP doesn't have have that opportunity.
The "Up" automated manual transmission (ASG) isn't everyone's cup of tea. I've driven a few and not been impressed - at all - the DSG drives hugely better. Having said that a friend does have the Skoda Citigo ASG automated manual (for the benefit of the OP, the Skoda Citigo and VW Up are almost the same car with different badges - the Skoda's a bit cheaper)... and she likes it very much and wouldn't want to change it.
|
Interesting that the OP considers a VW UP as a "granny car". I thought it was marketed as a city car for the younger generation, and certainly see most drivers as fairly young, perhaps their first car. Anyway, Yaris, Fiesta or Jazz but don't forget Suzuki Swift 1.2 and Mazda 2.
I thought the same thing re the vw up but didn't want to say, each to their own etc!. To be honest I'd more readily associate the skoda fabia with an 'older' driver, which was one of the two mentioned by the OP 1st!.
But hey ho, both the up and fabia would have dsg, which you'd want to avoid anyway!
Ought to try to get the facts right if advising someone else ... the "Up" doesn't have a DSG box. It's a single clutch automated manual, but the Fabia will have DSG automatic transmission ... a dry clutch DSG - the less favoured version, as opposed to the wet clutch DSG which is seemingly better thought of but is reserved for larger engines.
Given the budget stated it would probably be prudent to avoid the DSG for all the known reasons. But I'll say it again - I love my DSG but admit I hope it doesn't fail dramatically ... I'd buy another DSG but only with an extended VAG warranty and the OP doesn't have have that opportunity.
The "Up" automated manual transmission (ASG) isn't everyone's cup of tea. I've driven a few and not been impressed - at all - the DSG drives hugely better. Having said that a friend does have the Skoda Citigo ASG automated manual (for the benefit of the OP, the Skoda Citigo and VW Up are almost the same car with different badges - the Skoda's a bit cheaper)... and she likes it very much and wouldn't want to change it.
That the up has a single clutch automated manual as opposed to a dual one is neither here nor there as I had already stated that the OP should avoid anything with a SINGLE OR DUAL clutch automated manual. I don't dispute that some folks have good experiences with these, including someone on the forum a while back raving about the suzuki celerio with the automated manual. But the facts remain that the long term reliability of this type of gearbox is questionable, and going by reviews I have read from both owners and motoring press, driveability can also be suspect. With jerky changes and delays between pressing the throttle and anything happening.
|
|
"..... and going by reviews I have read from both owners and motoring press, driveability can also be suspect. With jerky changes and delays between pressing the throttle and anything happening."
All points noted, but rather than go by 'reviews I have read from both owners and motoring press' regarding driveability, I'm speaking as someone who has owned a DSG for the past six and a half years and actually compared the DSG with the ASG in the flesh and it's my experience that the DSG drives superbly and the ASG doesn't drive any where near as nicely.
I confess I get a tad tired of people who have only read about the DSG rather than having owned one carping on about how dreadful they are. If it was that bad I wouldn't have kept it for that length of time.
|
“I confess I get a tad tired of people who have only read about the DSG rather than having owned one carping on about how dreadful they are. If it was that bad I wouldn't have kept it for that length of time”
I’ve driven and sold them and I’ll agree in general they’re very pleasant in operation. But I’ve also seen the high volume of failures and problems with my close links with the local garage trade. They just don’t stand up well in the longterm especially when owners try scrimping on maintenance by taking the car to smaller garages who (I personally hear them often) have not a clue what to do with them. The trade are fully aware of their fragility and tend to price this in when offering on part exchanges with typically under book values and prices achieved at auction also reflect this so while you may own one that’s been trouble free you will pay a small penalty when you get rid of it at the other end usually.
|
“I confess I get a tad tired of people who have only read about the DSG rather than having owned one carping on about how dreadful they are. If it was that bad I wouldn't have kept it for that length of time”
I’ve driven and sold them and I’ll agree in general they’re very pleasant in operation. But I’ve also seen the high volume of failures and problems with my close links with the local garage trade. They just don’t stand up well in the longterm especially when owners try scrimping on maintenance by taking the car to smaller garages who (I personally hear them often) have not a clue what to do with them. The trade are fully aware of their fragility and tend to price this in when offering on part exchanges with typically under book values and prices achieved at auction also reflect this so while you may own one that’s been trouble free you will pay a small penalty when you get rid of it at the other end usually.
Again, all noted and respectfully understood. And, of course, I'm aware of all that has gone before... I'd have to be daft or from another planet not to have done. And I've had the revised clutch pack under warranty and am as disappointed as anyone else that they got it wrong in the first place and took ages to (hopefully) overcome the problems.
But, as as been said, I've had all that time with it and have enjoyed it immensely, and continue so to do. I'm reasonably well aware of what's going on inside the transmission casing (within reason) and it does get driven sympathetically, especially with regard to gear changes. It does get serviced by my (trusted) local main VAG dealer and they give good service ... at a price, of course ...and the longer I keep it the less value it'll maintain - but, hey ho, I like the car and, historically, Yeti values haven't dropped as horrendously as some other models I could have gone for. I'm not claiming to be hard up so I'll do my homework and look around when the time comes to get shot of it and take whatever what I can get and hope the next car gives as much pleasure.
|
|
|
Your own experience, to someone else, is no different from any other owners reviews i have read, so i don't see why you think the experience of many, many others should be ignored in favour of yours. I'm happy that you have a good one and hope that it continues to be, but that fact on it's own does not, and should not, make a strong case for buying one, especially 2nd hand.
And i did actually work at a VW dealership when the DSG first came out, so my skepticism is also based on the opinions of the technicians.
DSG transmissions are just another example of the motor industry trying to be clever and not really thinking through the long term effects. It was designed for racing, where the instant gearchanges can make up valuable time. For a road car application, a modern, electronically 'stepped' CVT does everything a DSG can, only with much less mechanical complexity.
|
|
I said earlier, at 11.22 ....
Given the budget stated it would probably be prudent to avoid the DSG for all the known reasons. But I'll say it again - I love my DSG but admit I hope it doesn't fail dramatically ... I'd buy another DSG but only with an extended VAG warranty and the OP doesn't have have that opportunity.
I think we can agree that we would both advise the OP not to buy a used one on that budget and I made that plain enough, did I not?
Yes there are "many, many others" who don't like them for one reason or another. But you seem to have discounted the many, many others who aren't going on to forums to complain about them. To be sure I CBA to research the number of apparently satisfied users compared to the number of complainants but something tells me that if the backlash over the, 14 year, lifespan of DSG was that significant then they wouldn't still be selling in the numbers that they do.
Indeed there's no reason why you should take particular notice of the opinion of a mere mortal such as I but that shouldn't prevent me from expressing my favourable experience of the car I own.
I have to say the fact that you happened to work in a VAG dealership has no more significance or factual input as my personal opinions does ... i. e. not a lot. You spoke to some technicians 14 years ago just as it was being introduced, and they didn't rate the concept. Can't see that proves a great deal.
Re. the final para. I would guess the motor industry IS trying to be clever. Why would it not? But for some obscure reason DSG is increasing in its application to newly introduced models. Several major manufacturers are persisting with it, rightly or wrongly. Hyundai, and other big players, aren't daft, so why are they fitting it on new models? Perhaps we can hazard a guess at the answer...people aren't concerned about what sort of transmission it has, they want to see comparitively favourable mpg and emissions and DSG type transmissions offer it to them when compared to most Torque Converter boxes. I don't think the general concensus approves of CVT for all the reasons we know ... primarily they don't like the elastic band effect (and I've owned CVT and found it OK, but it seems there's a chunk of drivers who don't).
Maybe we're just marking time until Electric and/or Hybrid takes over and we no longer need the current style of transmission - and maybe that's just around the corner?
And in the meantime I've been responsible for thread drift and apologise and venture to suggest I (we) allow it to return to the OP?
|
“Re. the final para. I would guess the motor industry IS trying to be clever. Why would it not? But for some obscure reason DSG is increasing in its application to newly introduced models. Several major manufacturers are persisting with it, rightly or wrongly. Hyundai, and other big players, aren't daft, so why are they fitting it on new models? ”
New tech almost always causes difficulties when it’s first introduced but through time manufacturers iron out the issues. Electronic fuel injection, turbochargers, ABS control systems, engine management, stability control, DPF, dual mass flywheels, CVT boxes and currently automated manual boxes. All have caused no end of bother for the first ten years or so of their existence. The worry is that some firms such as Ford, Toyota and Honda have dabbled with it then given up as it has proven difficult to perfect. Only time will tell if VAG or Hyundai/Kia have finally got it right and there’s no reason why they can’t as it has been a feature in the HGV and Tractor industries for many years before cars ever seen one.
|
|
|
|
Interesting that the OP considers a VW UP as a "granny car". I thought it was marketed as a city car for the younger generation, and certainly see most drivers as fairly young, perhaps their first car. Anyway, Yaris, Fiesta or Jazz but don't forget Suzuki Swift 1.2 and Mazda 2.
I like the Up and if I was looking for another car it would definately get a test drive. I'm only in my 30's :)
I't s funny how people buy things based on what they think others will think rather than what suits their needs.
|
I't s funny how people buy things based on what they think others will think rather than what suits their needs.
It's a trait of the British.
|
I't s funny how people buy things based on what they think others will think rather than what suits their needs.
It's a trait of the British.
Keeping Up (?) with the Joneses... ;-)
|
I't s funny how people buy things based on what they think others will think rather than what suits their needs.
It's a trait of the British.
Keeping Up (?) with the Joneses... ;-)
Stooping to the Joneses level!
|
|
Badbusdriver will you please enlighten me on what a stepped up cvt is. Also when were they introduced ? I realise it will very between manufacturers Having to replace the DPF this year is helping someone who thinks too much to get his flippin mind made up on the next car..
One of my concerns about them is getting decent acceleration when coming off a slip road.
Traditional TC autos seem to be mainly with bigger cars. I go for medium size like golf etc.
I've been on the forum long enough to know things vary a lot etc but would appreciate any general guidance from knowledgeabl;e people. I'm a simple driver ( but learning more every visit to the forum !)
|
|
CVT stands for continuously variable transmission, so there are no 'gears'. The transmission is designed to as much as possible, be in the engines sweet spot. This makes them very efficient, but as there are no gears, you get a noise which is often described as sounding like a cow mooing as the car speeds up or slows down. A lot of people do not like this noise, and it can make the car sound very strained under acceleration.
So to make the transmission more amenable to those who don't like it, the clever boffins programmed artificial 'steps', to make it sound and behave like it has gears. We have a 2017 honda jazz with this transmission. You can leave it to its own devices, which is what i generally do, or you can change 'gears' (steps) using the paddles. It is a brilliant setup, which is also shared with the toyota yaris, very economical, very smooth, and if the mood takes you, surprisingly quick.
|
|
Sorry, just realised i had not fully answered!. I'm not sure when the stepped CVT was introduced on the jazz, but i think it was when honda replaced the unloved i-shift (early 2011), which was an automated manual. As i mentioned, as far as i am aware, the only other car to feature this transmission is the toyota yaris, but again, i am not too sure when the stepped transmission was 1st used. I would think the easiest way to identify if either car has a stepped transmission would be the presence of paddles behind the steering wheel, as unless it was stepped, there would be no reason for it to have them.
Regarding your joining a motorway, i have no direct experience (i live in North East Scotland!), but i can tell you i was mightily surprised at the jazz's overtaking ability. Going by what i had read about CVT cars, this was supposed to be rubbish!. What i will say is that you do need to put your foot all the way down, and it will rev right to the red line, but i have absolutely no problems getting past other traffic, even on relatively short straights!.
|
|
Thank you very much indeed. The posts were exactly what I need : clear, comprehensive and practically related. Thanks again
|
|
|
|
|
