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Wed 8 Nov 2017 16:42

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - Hercule Holmes

This Is Money published what I think is a good list of the best and worst makes of cars, but it only lists what I would consider as "nearly new" cars - under 50,000 miles on the clock, so I would guess perhaps less than 5 years old. Link: www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-3039686/H...l

I don't know a lot about cars, but from my personal experience and what I've been told by other people, that list is probably accurate, but I'm wondering how many manufacturers would drop to the bottom of the list if we were talking about the kind of cars most ordinary people buy; ie, under £5000 and 5 to 10 years old.

I have not seen any list anywhere that spills the beans on which cars on the average used car forecourt are gems, and which ones are bucket-of-bolts money-pits waiting to curse the unwary.

I'm thinking about buying my first halfway-decent car soon (something that looks cool, is cheap to fix when it goes wrong, and won't let me down commuting to work down the motorway - Nissan Quashqai? Maybe even a little van? I only need a two-seater really.. any ideas welcome!)

Some makes of car I would not touch with a bargepole are Renault, Mercedes, BMW, Land Rover or Audi. Renaults I know have always been a pile of poo, Mercedes fall to bits after 5 years and cost a fortune to do anything to them, BMW's I've heard have a habit of spontaneously combusting, Range Rovers I've seen three or four times suffer terminal engine and gearbox faults, and Audi are just plain expensive I think. But like I said, I don't know a lot about cars so I could be completely wrong.

BTW, has anyone ever noticed that Top Gear in all their years on television never reviewed used cars, only new cars? Very suspicious if you ask me.

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Wed 8 Nov 2017 17:05

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - RobJP

Firstly, the article (and thus the data) is from April 2015.

Secondly, You state that you're "guessing" that it deals with cars less than 5 years old. Wrong. See below.

You state that it only covers cars with less than 50k miles on the clock. Wrong. It covers 50,000 policies. The AVERAGE mileage for each brand is in the detailed list.

For example, Ford (6th place) has an AVERAGE mileage of 53,214 in the article.

The second line in the article clearly states 'annual data which analyses 50,000 policies on cars 3 to 8 years old'

So reading the article in detail, rather than randomly spouting off, would probably serve you well.

And then you say about BMWs which go on fire all the time, Mercs which fall to bits, all Renaults are 'piles of poo'.

At least you get one thing right - and in fact, you say it twice. So maybe it counts as getting 2 things right. You don't know a lot about cars.

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Wed 8 Nov 2017 18:28

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - Hercule Holmes

Are we looking at the same page? Yes it's from 2015, but I doubt 2 years makes a big difference in the larger scheme of things.

I don't understand what you mean by 50,000 policies; I was referring to the average mileage - it does say "ave mileage" in the chart headings. It does say "3 to 8 years old" at the top of the article, but it doesn't give any clue as to how many 3 year-old cars and how many 8 year-old cars, or what the use of those cars were - ie, commerical/business vs domestic. I'd need to see the full version explaining the study method used.

Having personally known people who have bought brand new BMW's that suffered electrical fires, I think it's reasonable to say that I would be dubious of buying a BMW givien the experience of the people I know, and I know of one guy who tried to put a tow hitch on his Mercedes - almost new (granted this was many years ago) and it cost him £2000 because the computer would not allow the wiring to be cut into, so it bricked itself, and a guy who bought a used Mercedes A-class that cost more in parts than the car did - lovely car for a while, but then everything that could fail, failed. Renaults... maybe they've gotten better in recent years, but a quick Google search of "Renault faults" suggests otherwise. I should add Alfa Romeo to the list; I can almost guarantee anyone reading this who has owned an Alfa Romeo has had trouble with the handbrake - not a part you want to fail parked on a slope.

Edited by Hercule Holmes on 08/11/2017 at 18:29

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Wed 8 Nov 2017 19:33

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - RobJP

So you say you were referring to the average mileage, yet in your original post you clearly say

but it only lists what I would consider as "nearly new" cars - under 50,000 miles on the clock

Note : UNDER 50,000 miles on the clock. You said it, and yet you now seem to want to deny saying it.

Again, you clearly stated :

so I would guess perhaps less than 5 years old

And yet you now say that you didn't mean that. But meant something else

You know someone who decided to try to wire up a towbar on a Merc and 'bricked' it. Therefore all Mercs are terrible.

Ever considered that the person doing the job was an incompetent who should not be allowed to do any electrical work on a car ?

You know someone that bought a used A class Merc, and had to replace parts on it that were expensive. No mention of how old the car was, a complete lack of detail, no indication of whether the failures at the age/mileage were 'reasonable' or not. Hell, cars wear out. Shock, horror. Call the Daily Fail.

You slam Renault. A friend of mine last year changed his 55 plate Megane, with 110k on the clock, and never had any problems (and he had it from new) for a new Fiesta. Which has been terrible for problems. So, going by that and your theory, Renaults are brilliant, Fords are dire.

You claim that the handbrakes on Alfas are terrible and that you can 'almost guarantee' that people will have had trouble with the handbrake.

And yet if you go here

www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/alfa-romeo/giulietta...d

or here

www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/alfa-romeo/mito-2008...d

or any of the other older Alfa reviews, I didn't find a single handbrake problem reported to HJ - and these problems are reported by the public an added to the database.

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Wed 8 Nov 2017 18:30

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - badbusdriver

Here is a small van that looks cool.........

i.ytimg.com/vi/6xpdmXM8S4o/maxresdefault.jpg

That should suffice.

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Wed 8 Nov 2017 18:59

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - Hercule Holmes

I am getting the feeling that by suggesting criticism of certain makes of car, I have been misunderstood as having insulted the size of people's penises.I'm sorry, but if you bought a Mercedes, it probably will fall to bits after the warranty runs out.

And as a side note, as a novelty vehicle, the Nissan S-Cargo looks pretty fun and interesting.

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Wed 8 Nov 2017 20:10

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - Engineer Andy

I am getting the feeling that by suggesting criticism of certain makes of car, I have been misunderstood as having insulted the size of people's penises.I'm sorry, but if you bought a Mercedes, it probably will fall to bits after the warranty runs out.

And as a side note, as a novelty vehicle, the Nissan S-Cargo looks pretty fun and interesting.

Odd how you state in your original post that you don't know much about cars, then make statements later on and about the M-B & Co as if you do, just from reading said report and talking to friends and colleagues (rather a small sample).

PS. I wouldn't give 'This is Money' much kudos given they are just repeating ( abit like 'news' outlets such the MSN website) a 'so-called 'survey' from Warranty Direct, which I have personally questioned on several occasions (I cannot be biased as as I own a Japanese car [which was made in Japan] which does well [at leat in petrol form] in the survey) as, to me at least, WD's clientelle cannot fully represent the car-buying public, as they attract a certain type of customer/car owner and therefore, in my view, skews the results.

Many 'car ownership' surveys also (in my opinion) are skewed because they don't take into account the level and quality of maintenance car owners pay for - this could be exactly in line with the manufacturer's guidance at a main dealer or highly regarded specialist, OR just as easily a dodgy back alley joint, fast-fit outlet or doing it themselves and scrimping on it. They also don't take into account when manufacturers replace parts that have failed DURING the manufacturer's warranty period (and therefore won't appear in WD's survey as a fault/problem) and will be effectively newer components at the same time in the life of the car that a more reliable one has had none changed out.

Better to read a range of reports and to study HJ's 'Good & Bad' section in the Review segment of this website. As regards BMWs and electrical fires, I personally don't ever recall hearing of one, more like fires in high-end supercars, well documented in the media.

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Wed 8 Nov 2017 21:25

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - SLO76

When buying sub £5k cars keep these three words in mind... keep it simple.

Forget anything complex, dodge turbocharged hot hatches and diesel prestige brands. Leave high tech trouble prone automated manual gearboxes such as VW's DSG and Ford's Powershift and stick with manual gearboxes and simple tried and tested running gear. Japanese is generally best but that doesn't include the Nissan Qashqai sadly which is nothing more than a Renault Megan on stilts with a higher price tag and worse fuel economy.

Good options of similar size at this money are...

Ford Focus Mk II 1.6 (Yamaha) 1.8/2.0 (Mazda)
Ford Focus Mk III 1.6 (Yamaha)
Mazda 3 1.6
Honda Civic 1.8
Toyota Auris 1.33/1.6
Volvo S40/V50 1.6/1.8

All petrol.

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Wed 8 Nov 2017 23:07

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - argybargy

Clearly the matter of best and worst cars is to some extent subjective.

For example, I bought a Renault Scenic in 2005, and subsequently got into conversation with owners of the same model who'd had oodles of horribly expensive problems during ownership. Mine was a peach throughout 3 years of ownership, though the 8 valve 1.6 never threatened to pull the skin of any rice puddings.

Forget surveys and all that malarkey. Spend a few months on this forum, and you'll find that the same makes and models come up regularly as good, just as often as others come up as bad. The consistency with which this happens is gradually persuading me that there must be something here worth knowing.

No substitute for the experience of folks who actually drive, work on, buy and sell these things.

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Thu 9 Nov 2017 09:07

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - nellyjak

Agree....^^^^...speak as you find.

Whilst I accept than most of us have some degree of preconception/opinion about various car makes/models, yoiu can't really beat the true facts experienced by actual owners.

I'm NOT a fan of French cars at all..despite liking some of their design "quirkyness"..and was very sceptical when my wife decided she just had to have a Renualt Megane coupe convertible she has seen for sale (dealer)..a 2 litre model with all the bells and whistles...including leather upholstery.

It was 2 year old and only done 11k miles...anyway, she had that Megane for EIGHT years..and tbh it never put a foot wrong...not even a coil pack.!..never let her down and only sold it because the convertible hard top roof was beginning to show signs of leakage (seals I think)

It was time for it to go and she replaced it with a Toyota Yaris..which has been updated to a newer Yaris...she loves them...but still has fond memories of her Megane.!

Go figure.!...but my belief when choosing a car...of any make, is to do the best research you can.. and BE LUCKY.!

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Thu 9 Nov 2017 09:10

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - Andrew-T

... my belief when choosing a car...of any make, is to do the best research you can.. and BE LUCKY.!

.... and CAREFUL ....

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Thu 9 Nov 2017 09:28

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - kiss (keep it simple)

I sold a fairly old Golf on the big auction site. I asked the buyer what he was looking for in a 12 year old car and he said "History".

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Thu 9 Nov 2017 17:44

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - Engineer Andy

I sold a fairly old Golf on the big auction site. I asked the buyer what he was looking for in a 12 year old car and he said "History".

Yep - I NEVER throw away ANY of my car maintenance receipts (even for windscreen wipers!) so, if required, I can show any prospective buyer that I was and am a careful owner, leading to added value for any car I PX or sell privately when getting a new one.

All that's cost me is the price of a wallet file to keep all the paper receipt in; online receipts get pdf'ed and saved on my computer (I may in future scan [already have a MFD printer for that] and pdf all receipts to save space).

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Thu 9 Nov 2017 22:23

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - CK91437

Yep - I NEVER throw away ANY of my car maintenance receipts (even for windscreen wipers!) so, if required, I can show any prospective buyer that I was and am a careful owner, leading to added value for any car I PX or sell privately when getting a new one.

All that's cost me is the price of a wallet file to keep all the paper receipt in; online receipts get pdf'ed and saved on my computer (I may in future scan [already have a MFD printer for that] and pdf all receipts to save space).

The service book with the RECEIPTS would make me pay for the you car.

Any relevant photos would be a bonus.

No receipts, and I wouldn't really be interested in buying the car.

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Fri 10 Nov 2017 06:40

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - madf

Yep - I NEVER throw away ANY of my car maintenance receipts (even for windscreen wipers!) so, if required, I can show any prospective buyer that I was and am a careful owner, leading to added value for any car I PX or sell privately when getting a new one.

All that's cost me is the price of a wallet file to keep all the paper receipt in; online receipts get pdf'ed and saved on my computer (I may in future scan [already have a MFD printer for that] and pdf all receipts to save space).

The service book with the RECEIPTS would make me pay for the you car.

Any relevant photos would be a bonus.

No receipts, and I wouldn't really be interested in buying the car.

I remeber looking at a Citroen Xantia with full service history. When I looked at teh receipts, I lost interest. The owner was literally spnding £1000+ a year to service and repair it.

Service histories and bills can be double edged .

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Thu 9 Nov 2017 23:41

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - pd

I sold a fairly old Golf on the big auction site. I asked the buyer what he was looking for in a 12 year old car and he said "History".

He's one in a million then because most are looking for some good looking alloy wheels, some leather, an out of date satnav and £200 cheaper than anything else.

In the real world, history is worth sweet b***** all in the used car market or to most buyers apart from some vague notion of cambelts with some.

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Thu 9 Nov 2017 11:18

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - Avant

No doubt Mrs Nellyjak (Nelly?) and the previous owner treated the Megane well and had it regularly serviced. I had a series of big family Renaults for 20 years (1980-2000) and all were great.

But I do think that French cars are more vulnerable to abuse and neglect, so that although there are plenty of good ones around, you're better off following SLO's list of tough reliable cars above if you're buying a used car - as you simply don't know how the previous owner(s) have treated it.

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Thu 9 Nov 2017 15:16

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - nellyjak

No doubt Mrs Nellyjak (Nelly?) and the previous owner treated the Megane well and had it regularly serviced. I had a series of big family Renaults for 20 years (1980-2000) and all were great.

But I do think that French cars are more vulnerable to abuse and neglect, so that although there are plenty of good ones around, you're better off following SLO's list of tough reliable cars above if you're buying a used car - as you simply don't know how the previous owner(s) have treated it.

LOL..No, not Nelly...Jackie.!..(I'm Neil..she calls me Nel amongst other things...hence nellyjak) and yes, the car had been well cared for in it's first couple of years I admit..and we certainly made sure that it was treated well in our ownership..nothing was ever "skimped" in terms of servicing etc.

However I was still a little nervous about her taking on the "Frenchie"..but as it happened, all went well.

Can't say I'd take that chance again though.

Edited by nellyjak on 09/11/2017 at 15:18

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Thu 9 Nov 2017 17:57

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - ExA35Owner

Three points here:

1. You are likely to hear more about failures in cars which sell in big numbers. The number of Bentleys available to break down is far less than the number of Renaults.

2. Personal experience is only a tiny, tiny sample of all the cars of one make. So the fact that my Fiat long ago had multiple problems is of no value in serious evaluation of Fiats, although it may well be a talking point in the pub. "The plural of anecdote is not data."

3. Owner surveys are likely to be highly biased. On the one hand there is the punter who bought a Friday car and has had nothing but trouble so will never buy a Whateveritscalled again; on the other there is the owner who is so sure of being well-informed and therefore having made the right decision that his Whateveritscalled is the best car on the planet.

So perhaps a warranty company's survey of policies and claims is a good way to evaluate cars?

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Thu 9 Nov 2017 18:00

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - badbusdriver

Quite funny though that the OP slags off renault,

"renault i know have always been a pile of poo"

then goes on to say that he quite fancies a nissan quashqai, which is just a megane with a suspension lift!.

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Thu 9 Nov 2017 23:44

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - pd

Most Renaults are as good as anything else, especially the German tat.

Take out the Laguna II and early Megane II and a few other iffy models (e.g. Espace) from around that era and they're OK. Not faultless but no worse than others.

Basically if you avoid 2001-2007 cars they're fine.

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Fri 10 Nov 2017 09:57

Worst and best makes of OLDER used cars? - sandy56

My big Peugeot estate I owned for 4 years, bought 2nd hand, was safe, reliable and economic to run, and one of the best cars I have ever had.

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