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Thanks SLO76! Great advice from you, as usual. I was really hoping that you would have time to take a look at this and reply.
What are your thoughts on the second private sale car advertised?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201709189414413?sort=price-asc&annual-tax-cars=TO_185&quantity-of-doors=5&radius=1500&exclude-writeoff-categories=on&make=HONDA&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&advertising-location=at_cars&transmission=Manual&maximum-mileage=70000&price-to=7500&fuel-type=Petrol&minimum-badge-engine-size=1.8&model=CIVIC&postcode=rh20rn&year-from=2012&page=1
I am assuming, this is quite overpriced for a private sale too. But is the higher spec, something worth considering?
I quite like the idea of having cruise control on the car. But going for rain sensing wipers etc., (whichh are included in this spec), seems to much electronics, with chances of things going wrong, over long term ownership....
Edited by eustace on 05/10/2017 at 12:26
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Just to say, I've never seen rain sensing wipers where the sensor has failed, or heard of such a case. They are about as simple as 'high-tech' gets.
You might as well worry about the electric windows.
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Just to say, I've never seen rain sensing wipers where the sensor has failed, or heard of such a case. They are about as simple as 'high-tech' gets.
You might as well worry about the electric windows.
There are a bunch of complaints on the net, regarding this.
http://www.civicx.com/threads/is-there-any-way-to-turn-off-rain-sensing-wipers.2747/
http://www.civicx.com/threads/automatic-wipers-not-working.10488/
https://priuschat.com/threads/problems-with-rain-sensor-wipers.181138/
Why not keep things simple? Do we really need a sensor to tell us when it is raining? :-)
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Just to say, I've never seen rain sensing wipers where the sensor has failed, or heard of such a case. They are about as simple as 'high-tech' gets.
You might as well worry about the electric windows.
There are a bunch of complaints on the net, regarding this.
http://www.civicx.com/threads/is-there-any-way-to-turn-off-rain-sensing-wipers.2747/
http://www.civicx.com/threads/automatic-wipers-not-working.10488/
https://priuschat.com/threads/problems-with-rain-sensor-wipers.181138/
Why not keep things simple? Do we really need a sensor to tell us when it is raining? :-)
You do not need to keep them on Auto, I do as they work really well, you can use them manually, as far as im aware the only parts you cannot turn off is collision mitigation sensor, and brake assist which is imo usefull
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I'd favour condition, history, price and mileage over spec myself. Reliability is the most important issue buying used and cruse control and auto wipers add no value at this age. The low mileage car would be a better buy assuming all things are equal, I certainly wouldn't say it was worth 20,000 extra miles for a few toys.
Edited by SLO76 on 05/10/2017 at 13:52
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We have run a 2010 Civic 1.8 petrol for three years and no problems. Buy one in good clean condition with a service history.
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I would make sure you check the door pillars and the boot hinges for rust - my 2012 Civic had rust beginning in those areas when the car was less than 3 years old and Honda didn't want to know. Check out some of the Civic owners forums as I wasn't alone in this.
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I have a 2012 petrol 1.8 bought used in 2013.
It had a few faults on delivery that the dealer failed to detect despite its being Honda approved. Bonnet psint had marks caused by the original transit film, seat belt detectors didn't work on rear seats and the off-side Magic seat wouldn't stay up. I've since read that this last one is a relatively common fault, especially on that side. These faults were remedied free by the dealer but shows how weak their presale checks were. So don't rely on them.
Since then and up to 51k miles, all its needed has been rear brake pads and tyres. Pads seem to a Honda weak point. So its worth checking and negotiating on price if they are low.
Another thing to check is whether its on fixed or variable servicing. The variable version can recommend a non-oil service only to flag up an oil service a few weeks later or vice versa. I had mine switched off by the dealer and reverted to annual / 10k. This service switch makes the service book a bit hard to follow. Not a big issue but under the pressure of buying its worth sitting down and reading it through carefully to ensure it really is complete.
Its a great car to drive. Pootle along at low revs and it will not pull the proverbial skin off a rice pudding but floor it to 3000 and beyond and it will fly. In mixed but non-urban motoring I get mid 40's mpg. I've had over 50 mpg driving at indicated 70 mph on a long motorway trip but thats exceptional.
As for the auto wipers these are the best I've ever had. They seem to read my mind! The engine stop/start only operates when the battery is fully charged so its not necessarily a worry if its not working initially.
Rear visibility is often criticised but I find the mirrors totally eliminate the over the shoulder blindspot and mine has a reversing camera. The ES has the camera as standard. It does get smeared in winter so given the choice I'd have an audible system.
One oddity is that the computer doesn't allow switching beteeen mph and range without stopping the car. Doesn't bother me but it might annoy some people.
Overall its been a very good car and I intend keeping mine for a while longer. Good luck in finding one to suit you.
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The comment abive from snakey, regarding rust on his Civic is worrisome.
I initially thought it was oneoff, some thing which exceptionally happens in most model of cars.
But reading more of it on the Internet indiactes that the problem is widespread on both Gen 8 and Gen 9 civics.
Gen 8 Civic
Looks like there is a potential trouble spot under the rubber seal on top of the windscreen.
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/bugs-faults-irritations/81264-rusty-roof-honda-recall-53.html
There is a 59 page thread about it, on the Civic blog.
Hoinda had issued a recall regarding this back in 2007
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/bugs-faults-irritations/4589-new-recall-inspection.html.
However a different rubber seal seems to have been installed only from Feb 2011 manufactured cars.
Apparently there is a 6 year extended warranty regarding this, but generally only applied to cars with a full Honda service history.
other Gen 8 rust threads:-
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/bugs-faults-irritations/203817-door-rust.html
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/9g-general-discussion/356378-thoughts-9th-gen-civic.html
Gen 9 Civic
gen 9 Civic, also seem to have rust issues, as posted by Snakey.
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/bugs-faults-irritations-9g/172785-door-seams.html
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/9g-general-discussion/300361-ugh-internal-rust.html
The above thread is a piece d' resistance, where one of the posters compares the amount of rust on the 9th Gen Civic, as similar to the rust issues on the eary Dacia Duster.
As a result, I'm seriously rethinking the decision to buy a Civic.
Problem is there hardly seem to be any brands / models without issues.
Looks like I might try bangernomics. So wont regret spending too much on whatever I buy, if it turns out to have issues...:-(
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Why not look at 2012 Kias which will still have 2 yrs manufacturers warranty provided under 100 miles with FMDSH? I'm not sure about petrol but the diesels are chain cam. My 2011 Hyundai has the feel of a 1990s Toyota...not much soft touch stuff inside but the mechanical bits just feel well engineered and at 75k miles the only non routine servicing has been to replace a propshaft bearing under warranty.
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Well, the 2012 Kias / Hyundais have GDI engines. The jury seems to be out on their long term reliability.
Also, I understand that these cars too are quite prone to underbody corrosion...
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Every car has its faults, and remember that satisfied owners don't post on their make's forums nearly as often as dissatisfied ones.
All we can say from experience is that if you're buying used, Japanese and petrol-powered seems to be the way to go if reliability is the top priority. The advantage of the Civic 1.8 is that it has a bit more zing than the Auris 1.6 and Mazda 3 1.6.
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Thanks, Avant! Understand your point. But reliability is the top priority for me.
I'm trying to avoid makes that seem to have inherent problems. Can ignore one off ones though.
I'm veering towards the post 2013 1.6 Auris, now.
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Relax... Seems minor corrosion around joins on some cars but I wouldn't be too concerned, I've certainly not noticed it on anything I've looked at or sold. Look at the number of older 8th gen cars on the road (now 11yrs old) in very good order. Rot isn't an issue, even if you get some minor corrosion the body and underside both resist rot very well. Civics are actually one of the better cars at holding off rot, again the best way to gauge a cars durability is to look at how many older examples are still on our roads and even up here in Scotland with our nonstop rain and heavily salted roads on winter there's loads of 15yr old plus Civics still running around. Buy with a full Honda history and the firm may assist with corrosion if it's noticeable and premature but I don't put much faith in bodywork warranties, most have more holes in them than a 90's Merc. Carefully inspec any you look at, I'm sure you'll find nothing.
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I thought I was a worrier Eustace but you knock me into the long grass! Don't forget that a small number of minor faults easily become magnified on the internet, because hardly anyone will post that their car is not rusting and is fine! People post the bad but not the good. If it's any help, there's not a spot of rust on my 12 reg 9th gen, and I can tell you it's not been cossetted , the previous owner ( my relative) had to park on a street for 5 years and picked up a few scrapes too. It was washed only infrequently.
The only cars I've noticed rust on are old Mercs, Seats and the Mk 5 Golf front wings. I've heard the original Ford Ka was suspect too.
I also looked at Auris, as we have an old Corolla which is now 13 years old - no rust! It's a fine car but quite dull. The hatch is nowhere near as practical and spacious as the Civic but if you can find a nice 1.6 estate, it would make a fine choice. It's basically the same as our old Corolla, the 1.6 vvti, it's bombproof but a little unispiring to drive. However it gets the job done, nothing will fall off it and everything will still work on it in 10 years time!
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theres a lot of 8th gen Civics on the Isle of wight (near the sea)and None ive seen have any rust on, in fact ive not seen one with a dent in it yet, paint scratches yes but no dents
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Thanks, SLO76 & Bazza.
That's more reassuring. I guess I am behaving quite paranoid about this. :-)
I would really prefer an engine bigger than 1.6, for a change from my Focus. Hence one of the major reasons for wanting the Civic. Actually, I would have preferred the Avensis, except for the EPB issues.
Would you recomment the 9th Gen Civic over the 8th Gen?
I can see that 2011 plate 8th Gen civic with around 60K miles are available for around £5k.
Is it worth paying £1.5 - 2K extra for the 9th Gen, given that essdentially it is the same engine? I know there have been improvements in ride / suspension, etc.
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Going back to my post regarding rust, I should have also said in general I liked the car, I just didn't regard it as a long term keeper with the rust developing.
Honda's attitude was pretty dire really - on my car the rust had taken all the paint off the boot hinges, and was spreading. That was only going to get worse and they fobbed me off with comments like 'its only surface rust' However I don't expect the paint to have peeled off showing the rusted bare metal on a 26 month old car!
That aside, I did like the comfortable interior and the modern dash. The engine is nice and revvy but not very torquey - horses for courses though, diesel drivers would hate the engine but petrol heads would love it!
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Personally I think 9th gen is the better car though I have the diesel of which the economy has improved over the 21 months I've had it. But if I had to go back to the 8th gen I would without hesitation
But that's me....
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The 9th gen is a better built car which rides better and has greater high speed stability and refinement. Economy is also marginally better too and safety is a step up also. The 8th gen is also now dropping in value faster as it becomes increasingly dated so you'll recoup part of that extra outlay at the other end. I'd go for the later car.
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Regarding the Avensis EPB, I agree that it's an idiotic idea for any manufacturer to fit to a car, a complex solution to a problem that never existed in the first place and also that problems are fairly common as with any car fitted with this daft bit of tech. But it's far fr a deal killer in my eyes.
It's not as trouble prone as the system fitted to the VW Passat for example and most owners never see any hassle. The rest of the car is largely bombproof plus these are great value used. Get an approved used car from aToyota dealer and remember that at this age it's highly possible that any issues have already been sorted. I spotted this nice high spec low miler estate near you. The estate is an easy sell later on with strong demand for cheap Toyota estates. The Civic is nicer to drive and better on fuel but these are comfy and robust big family wagons. Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20171003990...7
Edited by SLO76 on 06/10/2017 at 12:32
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Many thanks for your inputs,SLO76!
However the issue with the Avensis EPB seems to be a inherent design issue.
See below article:-
http://www.surreyelectronics.com/leaflets/TOYOTA%20AVENSIS%20ELECTRONIC%20PARKING%20BRAKE%20SYSTEM.pdf
Looks like they may have fixed it, post 2014.
I wouldn't have the confidence, to chance an earlier Avensis.
But the fix may be of interest to GordonBenett, who was otherwise considering buying a new Avensis! :-)
Edited by eustace on 06/10/2017 at 13:40
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Sadly there's a much greater fear on the later Avensis if you want diesel, they use a BMW motor that's notorious for timing chain issues.
As for the EPB from what I'm reading it seems more common on cars which cover limited mileages. The majority of people I know who own these do heavy mileages, two are taxis with high six figure mileages and none have complained about this. I'd still be happy to buy one myself, in fact it's on the list to replace our CRV next year when I switch back to buying used from leasing new.
In fact speaking of which I'm sat in our local Honda dealer right now waiting on hierarchy's CRV being serviced and I'm horrified by the sticker prices on new cars. £17k for a Honda Jazz!!! The monthly payments on a PCP are higher than I'm paying on a CRV 1.6 DTEC SE-T. Who is buying new cars? I certainly won't be doing it again, there's no way I'll get close to the deal I got last time.
I was in the VW dealer the other day for a minor issue with our Polo too and a new Golf 1.4 was £21,500!!! A great car but buy one on the 4.9% APR finance they're offering and you'll lose a fortune by year three when the used market knocks a dose of reality in that price. Used is most definitely the way to go. Our Polo cost me £7k two years ago and will do anything this Golf will yet I've lost £2k at worst not the £12k the Golf buyer will haemorrhage over the same period.
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