...and finally-if you really need convincing--just look at large passenger airliners. These massively complex vehicles (that fly!) last for 20 years plus!
Absolutely, and the reason why is that they are maintained properly.
As for extra oil changes, i pay around £15 per 5 litres of good quality full synthetic 5w40 oil (Millers/Morris/Fuchs) by buying in bulk packs when i sees a bargain, good quality oil filters (eg Mann) £5 each, so an oil change costs me £20 all in £23 if its the Toyota which takes 7 litres, think £40/46 a year in fresh engine oil and filters is worth the gamble on whether its really needed or not.
|
|
|
So-ok you could be spending £800 a year on maintenance on a car over six years old--but this is NOTHING compared to the cost of "changing"..
Isn't that the truth! Too many people just run their cars into the ground and buy new or nearly new again thinking they are saving money on servicing.
Servicing a car at a good indy is the way to go (or DIY if your capable). My Citroen has never been to the dealer or any other garage for servicing since it's 1000mile post delivery check and I'd be surprised if my servicing parts average cost was more than £90 a year over the last 15 years. I must be doing something right as it has never had an advisory at MOT time.
|
|
I suppose it also depends upon whether any independent garage uses OEM parts and consumables (more expensive) or generics.
Sometimes a generic part (or equivalent 'main brand' part) can be just as good (or even better) than OEM parts/consumables, but other times certainly not, where they don't properly fit (leading to accelerated wear and tear or reduced performance/efficiency) or utilise lower engineering standards (even if they are 'genuine and meet all the EC standards etc) and may wear out quicker.
Finding a good independent can be difficult, as its not always possible to actually see (unless they are really honest and have the time to show you the parts and consumables they're using) whether they are using appropriate parts and consumables - a generic part that costs half as much to fit but lasts half the time of an OEM one has no benefit, especially if the failure of said part leads to other component failures (e.g. suspension parts).
When my Mazda3 mk1 needed to have some replacement suspension parts (waer and tear) fitted, my local main dealer said that due to logistics problems with Mazda Europe (last summer), there would be a wait of a month (!) for the OEM parts, and offered an alternative of generic parts, which were cheaper (about 10%, given the labour charge [1/3 of the total cost] was the same for both) to fit, but only came with a 1 year (rather than 3 with the Mazda OEM parts) warranty. Fortunately I was in no hurry, so I went with the OEM parts, but particularly because of the longer warranty period and not that greater difference in price.
For more lower-risk (and easy to fit myself) consumables/parts, such as windscreen wipers, I always go for the high quality alternatives (e.g. from Bosch), which are still far cheaper to fit overall as most of the extra cost in having Mazda OEM parts fitted is for their storage/postage costs and of course, labour (I presume they charge a high minimum value).
|
I suppose it also depends upon whether any independent garage uses OEM parts and consumables (more expensive) or generics.
Sometimes a generic part (or equivalent 'main brand' part) can be just as good (or even better) than OEM parts/consumables, but other times certainly not, where they don't properly fit (leading to accelerated wear and tear or reduced performance/efficiency) or utilise lower engineering standards (even if they are 'genuine and meet all the EC standards etc) and may wear out quicker.
Finding a good independent can be difficult, as its not always possible to actually see (unless they are really honest and have the time to show you the parts and consumables they're using) whether they are using appropriate parts and consumables - a generic part that costs half as much to fit but lasts half the time of an OEM one has no benefit, especially if the failure of said part leads to other component failures (e.g. suspension parts).
When my Mazda3 mk1 needed to have some replacement suspension parts (waer and tear) fitted, my local main dealer said that due to logistics problems with Mazda Europe (last summer), there would be a wait of a month (!) for the OEM parts, and offered an alternative of generic parts, which were cheaper (about 10%, given the labour charge [1/3 of the total cost] was the same for both) to fit, but only came with a 1 year (rather than 3 with the Mazda OEM parts) warranty. Fortunately I was in no hurry, so I went with the OEM parts, but particularly because of the longer warranty period and not that greater difference in price.
For more lower-risk (and easy to fit myself) consumables/parts, such as windscreen wipers, I always go for the high quality alternatives (e.g. from Bosch), which are still far cheaper to fit overall as most of the extra cost in having Mazda OEM parts fitted is for their storage/postage costs and of course, labour (I presume they charge a high minimum value).
Compared to full dealer prices, the big reduction in service costs comes from reducing/eliminating the labour cost by using a good independent or DIY. The saving on good OEM service parts is small although bigger savings are available if you compromise on parts quality. The advantage of using manufacturers parts is getting the right specification - important for things like filters and brake pads, other may fit physical but not necessarily the right grade, etc.
Good independents have always been difficult to find - when you find one give them all your business to make sure they're there when you need them
|
|
Good independents have always been difficult to find - when you find one give them all your business to make sure they're there when you need them
I believe this applies to so many other smaller businesses who may give better service. If possible we will use them if preference to any large chain.
I have put on a previous thread that I have found two Bosch accredited garages (different parts of the country) that I trust completely.
|
|
At some point though one must surely be throwing good money after bad, i.e. there must be a point of disappearing returns, I with our strict by GB standards Govt run MOT, reckon 12/13 years & 240,000 or 260,000 miles, is a sensible life, otherwise one will spend more on the car than it is worth.
That is 240,000/260,000 as a daily driver to be relied upon btw.
Collapsing seats, electrical gremlins, failing window regulators, never mind inevitable corrision and failure of rubber/plastic components, radiators etc.
Never mind the cost of replacing 27 dozen(or thereabouts) air-bags after "x" years, in current vehicles.
All add up.
I would like to see the true inflation adjusted cost of the Volvo servicing & repair of the 1,000,000 Volvo in Nth America, I suspect a new car ud ave been cheaper at some point along the way.
Cars are essentially consumer goods, designed to be disposable, within reason.
|
|
Yes they might have a designed in life, and our leaders and apparatchiks might have plans for us, including what we should drive how we should think and how long us unimportant people should live after retirement, but the beauty of it all is we don't have to do as we're told or expected to.
Of course there comes a time when the common or garden mass produced car is no longer worth fixing, but that can be extended for many years with a bit of care, why not do so, i'd rather keep any of our current old cars indefinately than be forced into a modern eurobox.
Edited by gordonbennet on 19/04/2016 at 23:26
|
|
There is of course the added economy of driving an older vehicle, I believe the UFU/NFU discounts 3% off the preimium for each additional birthday, up to some arbitary pre-set limit I can only presume.
However the BIG Elephant in the room is fuel consumption, which at 25,000 or 20,000 private paid-for miles per annum, is v significent.
In the case of the Galaxy, 25mpg for the then petrol engine options, compared to 42.5 (and a genuine 50 being realistically achievable) for our diesel, only being dragged down to 37 by sustained merciless Motorway flogging.
However my next car may well be picked from the pinnacle of diesel technology, and lack of electronic gizmos, during the late 90's early 00'ies, perhaps a MD "E" Class estate, though I need to avoid that Daimler Chysler era of penny-pinching design and construction values.
That said I brought home a diesel pick-up from work tother night, a twin turbo 2.5l Isuzu, which went like excrement flung off a long-tail shovel, a horrible leaf sprung boaty ride, compared to wor 1998 Steyr Daimler Puch van, which is a lifetime "keeper" btw.
|
|
|
|
At some point though one must surely be throwing good money after bad, i.e. there must be a point of disappearing returns, I with our strict by GB standards Govt run MOT, reckon 12/13 years & 240,000 or 260,000 miles, is a sensible life, otherwise one will spend more on the car than it is worth.
That is 240,000/260,000 as a daily driver to be relied upon btw.
Collapsing seats, electrical gremlins, failing window regulators, never mind inevitable corrision and failure of rubber/plastic components, radiators etc.
Never mind the cost of replacing 27 dozen(or thereabouts) air-bags after "x" years, in current vehicles.
All add up.
I would like to see the true inflation adjusted cost of the Volvo servicing & repair of the 1,000,000 Volvo in Nth America, I suspect a new car ud ave been cheaper at some point along the way.
Cars are essentially consumer goods, designed to be disposable, within reason.
All four window regulators failed on my Octavia between 100,000 and 160,000 miles. One of the reasons why I won't be buying another VAG car for some time.
A new car might have been cheaper than running that 1,000,000 mile Volvo, however, I suspect the owner loved that car. So many memories over so many years. I know of a guy who re-commissioned a W124 Mercedes E300D estate at a cost of around £10,000. It had already done 200,000 miles, so was made good for another 200,000 plus. No other car appealed to him. Sometimes the value of a car becomes irrelevant in relation to the cost of running it, or indeed the cost of a replacement.
Thanks for all the advice/suggestions about servicing, particularly the gearbox oil change and cleaning the brakes. Food for thought. Now in two minds about the oil change interim. My friend doing it will of course be cheaper than a garage and I know he'll check whatever else I ask him to at the same time. I'll probably go with that but realise a pollen filter every year is unnecessary.
And Avant, thanks for changing the 'of' to 'or' in the title. My keyboard is badly worn.
|
|
Pollen filter change depends on a number of things - how easily it reduces flow rate as it does the filtering, the environment you typically drive in and your family's sensitivity to pollen issues.
Just examine the filter after 12 months and then make your own call - personally 12 months is the absolute maximum for me, but then I suffer from hay fever, asthma and COPD.
|
Pollen filter change depends on a number of things - how easily it reduces flow rate as it does the filtering, the environment you typically drive in and your family's sensitivity to pollen issues.
Just examine the filter after 12 months and then make your own call - personally 12 months is the absolute maximum for me, but then I suffer from hay fever, asthma and COPD.
Thanks for this. Fortunately, none of the family has a pollen issue.
|
Pollen filter change depends on a number of things...
Just examine the filter after 12 months
Thanks for this. Fortunately, none of the family has a pollen issue.
I have never changed either of the filters on our 16yr old 113,000m Focus. I calculate we have spent 3360hrs in it over 12yrs (105120hrs), hardly worth filtering the cabin air when many of the journeys are made for the express purpose of walking outdoors!
The engine air filter can be easily fanned out and cleaned with a stiff paint brush.
|
|
Did it have a cabin filter fitted?
A cabin filter will take out some of the road pollution, since that's where you drive - outdoor walks are often away from roads!
|
Did it have a cabin filter fitted?
Must admit I've never looked, mainly because I've read that after prising out the flimsy black plastic coverings there is a risk of water ingress as the sealing is never quite as good again. As long as the excellent heater and aircon still work and there are no smells, I'm happy.
|
|
|
|
|
