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Recently changed from my 2007 TC auto Kia Ceed to 2014 DCT 3 1.6 petrol Ceed.
This is my review of DCT after few days of driving.
The gear changes are imperceptible. It has got 6-speed dual clutch transmission. Compared to my old 4-speed TC auto, it feels smoother.
There are few differences though!
It creeps bit faster than TC auto. This is mentioned in handbook. I guess because it is dry clutch, the ECU needs to keep the rev bit higher to prevent stalling.
In my TC auto, I often kept the car stationary in slight uphills doing nothing. The TC forward force usually cancelled out roll back due to gravity. This is not possible in DCT (in fact handbook advises not to do so). Just like a manual clutch, it will burn the clutch. So car has to be placed in neutral during all stopping. It has got HAC (Hill Assist Control) so will prevent rolling backward during uphill start from rest. More so, car should be placed in N for all stops including stoppage at traffic lights on flat ground. Leaving the car in D and then using parking brake is not advised in the handbook (if you do so, the car will possibly move it to N from D internally as handbook says you must do D-N-D routine to move the car again if you apply parking brake while in D).
Engine braking can be felt more strongly when I take my foot off the accelerator pedal (just like a manual) - which is a good thing IMHO. In TC auto it was not so perceptible.
There is a "Sport" mode where I can manually up/downs shift using flappy pedals. Tried few times and don't think I would bother, except downshifting before steep hills.
While you can manually shift gears in Sport mode, if engine RPM is not within suitable range, the ECU will not accept your changes.
Overall the car shifts gears as expected from an auto. Can't comment on long term reliability but I have the 7-yr warranty if things go wrong. Although I bought a year old car, being approved used, Kia bundled full 7-yr warranty from the date collected.
There is a button for ECO mode which limits torque for best fuel consumption. This makes the car noticably sluggish compared to performance when ECO mode is off. However, I shall use the ECO mode most of the time :)
Being "3" spec, it has got many features like built in sat nav, climate control, rear view camera, TPMS, passenger seat height adjustment etc. Not yet explored all features.
If you are interested, please note that since 2015, Kia has stopped offering petrol DCT for Ceed. It is now only available as 7-speed diesel.
There are some niggles though. The temp gauge is now digital which you need to manually show by pressing few scroll buttons. The instant fuel economy is now a digital bar (instead of actual number) and only displayed in MPG (in old model you change change units to km, L etc.) On plus side, I can see the bonnet by leaning a little bit which is advantage when parking (didn't try any tight parking yet).
The auto light is nice feature (even though I thought I'd hate it) but auto wiper is not of much use. Too slow to clear droplets.
There is a separate switch for clearing front windscreen - this clears mist much quicker compared to old model.
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Many thanks for this. As you've bought another Ceed, I assume that the first one did you well. Let's hope that the DCT is more reliable than the dry-clutch DSG on VW Group cars.
I wonder why Kia have dropped the petrol DCT Ceed: even without the VW shenanigans, there have been enough doubts about diesel emissions to encourage buyers to turn to high-efficiency petrol engines (like the VW Group TSI range of engines) or to hybrids.
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Kia DCT is dry clutch though. My old one was mostly trouble free except a transmission fault outside warranty which Kia did fix with some goodwill contribution. Unfortunately it was written off in an accident (nothing major, but repair was not cost effective in old cars nowadays) so I had to buy another.
I did ask Kia customer service why they are dropping petrol autos from the range. The response was steoretype citing there is not enough demand for petrol autos etc.
Fuel economy is showing as 37 MPG after mix or town and motorway driving. Will see if it improves after a prolonged M'way run. Don't think I can achieve claimed 46 MPG but 40 would be ideal.
Before buying the Ceed again, I did a test drive in Sportage 1 GDI. But didn't like that much mainly because it was a manual (you can only get diesel auto with AWD which has dire fuel economy) and compared to my Ceed 3 spec, Sportage 1 appeared poverty level spec :-)
Interestingly, Suzuki has now introduced DCT in their Vitara S range, which is also fitted with 1.4 Turbo GDI engine. Vitara's 1.6 engines use TC auto.
Edited by movilogo on 11/01/2016 at 13:24
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As a 7 speed, dry clutch DSG user I was interested to see the comments. Five years on I continue to enjoy every moment with my DSG. No reliabity problems here...it's had all the usual mods and replacements under warranty so fingers crossed until it goes in exchange for something else....hence the interset in what Kia/Hyundai is putting in it's vehicles. Shame they stopped putting it in petrols - does that apply throughout their range?
Edited by KB. on 11/01/2016 at 18:31
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The whole point of an auto is to stick it in 'D' and not touch the stick until you reach your destination.If you have to keep putting it into 'N' everytime you stop then you might as well have a manual.I definately won't be buying one of these if what you say is true.Even though it uses more fuel a TC gearbox is the only way an automatic should be.
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Even with my TC auto I always shifted to N when standing in traffic. I do the same with manual cars (obviously).
Personally I don't see any problem with it. But everyone has a different preference which I appreciate.
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Movilogo wrote:- "Even with my TC auto I always shifted to N when standing in traffic. I do the same with manual cars (obviously).
Personally I don't see any problem with it. But everyone has a different preference which I appreciate".
Agreed, movilogo. A reasonable, sensible and considered response, in my view. I don't think anyone is obliged, compelled or specifically advised to drive any particular type of auto box in any particular manner or mode. If you (and, as it happens, I) are happy to select neutral during extended stops then that's fine...and if (rightly or wrongly) we feel that by doing so we're extending a degree of "Car Sympathy" (sorry to nick the phrase from the IAM)...then I think that's also fine. In truth, leaving any transmission in gear 'might' not make a scrap of difference in the long term, but it just happens that I feel happier to select neutral when idling - I'm far happier not to have a manual clutch thrust bearing spinning or various sundry auto box components doing whatever it is they do when engaged and stationary - but, as you say, it's personal choice.
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I wonder why Kia have dropped the petrol DCT Ceed: even without the VW shenanigans, there have been enough doubts about diesel emissions to encourage buyers to turn to high-efficiency petrol engines (like the VW Group TSI range of engines) or to hybrids.
It could be because the Cee'd is now a run-out model, given its sister car, the Hyundai i30 has just been replaced with a new one which does have DCT gearboxes mated to the 1.4T petrol and 1.6 TD. I've noticed many times during a 'run out' period that manufacturers reduce the number of variants available so they can start to re-tool the factory/gear up for when the new car is released.
I suspect they are also using up all the old 1.4 N/A petrol engines before they change over fully to 1.0 & 1.2 N/A, 1.0T and 1.4T petrol engines in their ranges of small and medium sized cars as new cars are introduced and old ones discontinued.
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Recently changed from my 2007 TC auto Kia Ceed to 2014 DCT 3 1.6 petrol Ceed.
This is my review of DCT after few days of driving.
The gear changes are imperceptible. It has got 6-speed dual clutch transmission. Compared to my old 4-speed TC auto, it feels smoother.
There are few differences though!
It creeps bit faster than TC auto. This is mentioned in handbook. I guess because it is dry clutch, the ECU needs to keep the rev bit higher to prevent stalling.
In my TC auto, I often kept the car stationary in slight uphills doing nothing. The TC forward force usually cancelled out roll back due to gravity. This is not possible in DCT (in fact handbook advises not to do so). Just like a manual clutch, it will burn the clutch. So car has to be placed in neutral during all stopping. It has got HAC (Hill Assist Control) so will prevent rolling backward during uphill start from rest. More so, car should be placed in N for all stops including stoppage at traffic lights on flat ground. Leaving the car in D and then using parking brake is not advised in the handbook (if you do so, the car will possibly move it to N from D internally as handbook says you must do D-N-D routine to move the car again if you apply parking brake while in D).
Engine braking can be felt more strongly when I take my foot off the accelerator pedal (just like a manual) - which is a good thing IMHO. In TC auto it was not so perceptible.
There is a "Sport" mode where I can manually up/downs shift using flappy pedals. Tried few times and don't think I would bother, except downshifting before steep hills.
While you can manually shift gears in Sport mode, if engine RPM is not within suitable range, the ECU will not accept your changes.
Overall the car shifts gears as expected from an auto. Can't comment on long term reliability but I have the 7-yr warranty if things go wrong. Although I bought a year old car, being approved used, Kia bundled full 7-yr warranty from the date collected.
There is a button for ECO mode which limits torque for best fuel consumption. This makes the car noticably sluggish compared to performance when ECO mode is off. However, I shall use the ECO mode most of the time :)
Being "3" spec, it has got many features like built in sat nav, climate control, rear view camera, TPMS, passenger seat height adjustment etc. Not yet explored all features.
If you are interested, please note that since 2015, Kia has stopped offering petrol DCT for Ceed. It is now only available as 7-speed diesel.
There are some niggles though. The temp gauge is now digital which you need to manually show by pressing few scroll buttons. The instant fuel economy is now a digital bar (instead of actual number) and only displayed in MPG (in old model you change change units to km, L etc.) On plus side, I can see the bonnet by leaning a little bit which is advantage when parking (didn't try any tight parking yet).
The auto light is nice feature (even though I thought I'd hate it) but auto wiper is not of much use. Too slow to clear droplets.
There is a separate switch for clearing front windscreen - this clears mist much quicker compared to old model.
Any update on your experience witht he Dual Clutch "Automatic" Transmission?
In particular, car creeping at low speeds, and low speed manoeuvres?
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As an owner of a dual clutch automatic I'm interested to read the OP above, because I did read somewhere (although not, if I recall rightly in the handbook) that the Powershift shouldn't be left in Drive when the car is stopped with engine running, because this has a detrimental effect on the life expectancy of the clutch.
I tend to put it into N when I remember, which is usually after about twenty seconds, but its unlikely to become habit. Just seems like too much trouble to me, given that I bought an "auto" partly because I anticipated being able to leave the selector alone when out on the road.
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I have a VW Transporter with the 7 speed DSG gearbox brough new two years ago. Admitting to owning such a marque (and "even worse" with the DSG option) on this forum is akin to saying I have the pox, but I can only say after 35 years + driving manuals it is the best thing ever to improve my driving experience. Anyone who regularly uses the M6 / M1 from the north-west to London and back (ususally on Monday mornings / Friday afternoons) like myself should recive a tax rebate for all the congestion and the DSG makes this much easier to bear.
Putting your foot firmly on the brake pedal disengages the clutch(es), so no need to select N when stopping for a short while (otherwise why bother with an "auto").
Edited by nick62 on 15/11/2017 at 22:52
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@ nick62 & argybary, and.......
Would be interesting to know what your car handbook says about "How to use/operate" the Dual Clutch "Auto" Gearbox. (DCT)
It is essentially a manual gearbox. But with a manual gearbox, you know when you have put it in netral (stopped say at traffic lights) and you have released the clutch.
With the DCT how do you know if you are in neutral and not just slipping the clutch...which is a recipe for diaster and very expensive repairs.
Nick62 - "Putting your foot firmly on the brake pedal disengages the clutch(es), so no need to select N when stopping for a short while (otherwise why bother with an "auto")." I assume that means that if the brake pedal is only lightly pressed that the clutch will still be engaged and possibly slipping?
Argybary...i assume you have a Ford...
Edited by CK91437 on 16/11/2017 at 09:59
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CK, you assume correctly. I own a Ford B Max with Powershift.
I've just checked my handbook and it directs the owner as follows: "Do not idle the engine for long periods of time in drive with the brakes applied". I don't know what they mean by "long periods of time", but it doesn't sound as if they mean "20 seconds whilst waiting at traffic lights".
There's no other guidance in the handbook on that specific topic, but I'll make a mental note to select N when the car is stationary with engine running.
When I remember to do it, that is.
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I have a VW Transporter with the 7 speed DSG gearbox brough new two years ago. Admitting to owning such a marque (and "even worse" with the DSG option) on this forum is akin to saying I have the pox, but I can only say after 35 years + driving manuals it is the best thing ever to improve my driving experience. Anyone who regularly uses the M6 / M1 from the north-west to London and back (ususally on Monday mornings / Friday afternoons) like myself should recive a tax rebate for all the congestion and the DSG makes this much easier to bear.
Putting your foot firmly on the brake pedal disengages the clutch(es), so no need to select N when stopping for a short while (otherwise why bother with an "auto").
Doing isn't advisable, not necessarily because of anything it'll do to your gearbox (though may still do), but because the bright brake lights (especially any high-level one) really pee off the driver behind and has been frowned upon for years. Do as the vast majority of those driving a manual and apply the handbrake after putting the car in N.
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I still have the same car and use it daily :-)
So far no issues, passed its 1st MOT recently (~28k miles).
Low speed maneuvering is as expected. I get 41-42 MPG on mixed runs (not bad against official 46 MPG).
The pedal shift is fun, though 90% of the time I just put in D.
The follow me cornering light is more useful than I initially thought it would be.
Overall I am still enjoying the car and as long as it does not develop any fault, I may keep it until the end of 7-yr warranty.
Edited by movilogo on 16/11/2017 at 12:49
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Overall I am still enjoying the car and as long as it does not develop any fault, I may keep it until the end of 7-yr warranty.
But the Dual Clutch Transmissions clutches would be consumable items, and not covered by the warranty. As per a manual gearbox.
Any idea how much it costs to replace the clutches (parts & labour)?
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Overall I am still enjoying the car and as long as it does not develop any fault, I may keep it until the end of 7-yr warranty.
But the Dual Clutch Transmissions clutches would be consumable items, and not covered by the warranty. As per a manual gearbox.
Any idea how much it costs to replace the clutches (parts & labour)?
You clearly have a serious fixation on this issue, why not contact a Kia dealer (or Kia Customer Service) and ask them instead of expecting forum members to find out for you?
While you are at it, ask the same questions of VAG and Ford (both of whom only give 3 year warranties instea of 7 years)
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A manual clutch is operated by human operator (driver).
A DCT system is operated by computer programmed by maker. So it DCT fails within warranty period, it is fault and should be fixed by maker under warranty.
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A manual clutch is operated by human operator (driver).
A DCT system is operated by computer programmed by maker. So it DCT fails within warranty period, it is fault and should be fixed by maker under warranty.
Good logic, and you would assume DCT clutches are covered by the warranty.
Does it say it in writing in your warranty Terms & Conditions?
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A manual clutch is operated by human operator (driver).
A DCT system is operated by computer programmed by maker. So it DCT fails within warranty period, it is fault and should be fixed by maker under warranty.
Good logic, and you would assume DCT clutches are covered by the warranty.
Does it say it in writing in your warranty Terms & Conditions?
Update - a friend of a friend who knows about these things, says that the Kia/Hyundai clutch linings are only covered for 2 years (and not 7 years). After that it is a consumable item.
Unless anyone else knows better.
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A manual clutch is operated by human operator (driver).
A DCT system is operated by computer programmed by maker. So it DCT fails within warranty period, it is fault and should be fixed by maker under warranty.
Good logic, and you would assume DCT clutches are covered by the warranty.
Does it say it in writing in your warranty Terms & Conditions?
Update - a friend of a friend who knows about these things, says that the Kia/Hyundai clutch linings are only covered for 2 years (and not 7 years). After that it is a consumable item.
Unless anyone else knows better.
I'm not aware of any brand without warranty exclusions for wear/tear - Hyundai/Kia openly define their exclusions and give the shorter times/mileages applicable to each item. They're listed on their websites, unlike some brands which have a wear/tear exclusion clause but don't define which items or the shorter period involved.
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A manual clutch is operated by human operator (driver).
A DCT system is operated by computer programmed by maker. So it DCT fails within warranty period, it is fault and should be fixed by maker under warranty.
Good logic, and you would assume DCT clutches are covered by the warranty.
Does it say it in writing in your warranty Terms & Conditions?
Update - a friend of a friend who knows about these things, says that the Kia/Hyundai clutch linings are only covered for 2 years (and not 7 years). After that it is a consumable item.
Unless anyone else knows better.
I'm not aware of any brand without warranty exclusions for wear/tear - Hyundai/Kia openly define their exclusions and give the shorter times/mileages applicable to each item. They're listed on their websites, unlike some brands which have a wear/tear exclusion clause but don't define which items or the shorter period involved.
Quite agree RT - when I had my (manual) clutch replaced (wear and tear item) in my Mazda3 at the main dealership, I asked how long the warranty was, and was told it was covered for only 6 months, as opposed to 3 years for most other parts (perhaps with the exception of brake pads and discs, probably for the same reason as some clutch parts).
As such, 2 years is quite a decent warranty length for an item that, if poorly used, could wear out in a far shorter time (I've read cases of one day due to poor driving techniques).
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A manual clutch is operated by human operator (driver).
A DCT system is operated by computer programmed by maker. So it DCT fails within warranty period, it is fault and should be fixed by maker under warranty.
Good logic, and you would assume DCT clutches are covered by the warranty.
Does it say it in writing in your warranty Terms & Conditions?
Update - a friend of a friend who knows about these things, says that the Kia/Hyundai clutch linings are only covered for 2 years (and not 7 years). After that it is a consumable item.
Unless anyone else knows better.
Look at any other maker's warranty terms and you will see that they do not even cover clutch linings for 2 years: Hyundai's 2 year/24000 mile coverage is in fact the only clutch coverage detailed in warranty terms.
You clearly have some personal agenda against this company, which, in case you were unaware, has the biggest car plant in the world in South Korea (one built every 10 seconds) also makes electrical goods (from AA batteries to toasters, kettles etc) and half million ton container ships.
It is thus fair to assume it has competent designers, production engineers and quality controls.
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